Christmas issues

[ConkersDontScareSpiders]

I have recently separated from h, and though at first it was very amicable, that soon altered when it transpired he had been seeing my best friend for the year and a half before the break up and that they had both been acting in ways that were highly manipulative and unpleasant during that time.This has continued in various forms since I found out and there have also been some horrible discussions with h about money,which have been stressful and during which I feel he has attempted to screw me over a bit.
I have had some pretty bad anxiety/depression issues since finding out about this in March.I eventually lost my job, which Id started the day I found out and which was something I had worked so hard for.Im still finding it all quite hard to deal with.
Our two DD's (9 and 10) are unaware of the situation with h and my former best friend (though I think they have worked out that something is going on-small town, lots of gossip, and of course said friend is no longer in my house every few days as she had been-and the kids aren't totally oblivious to that kind of thing).h does not want to tell them and I haven't-against my better judgement really and also because her kids are friends with mine-so it would be something that would affect them too-as they are also apparently none the wiser.
The situation is very strained still and I am nowhere near back to being myself.
The girls are now asking what will happen at christmas. They have expressed a preference to go to my parents-a 3 hour drive away (as my dad is old and ill and they have a very good relationship with him and are concious that after a recent health scare he is not invincible).My parents do not want anything to do with ex h, (whereas in the past it might have been possible-it isn't yet and may never be, for him to come with us to spend Christmas at their house).
H and I have had some brief discussions re Christmas.he thinks it would be 'unreasonable' of me to say that we are not all four going to spend Christmas together 'as that's what we always said we would do' (which we did, even post split-but that was when we were friends, before his behaviour had become apparent and before he consequences for me had occurred).
I don't feel I can spend any prolonged time with him at the moment.we are polite in front of the kids, and other than stuff around the kids I am trying not to engage with him at all. The thought of spending Christmas with him is not Inspiring.However of course I also don't want to spend it without the girls-especially this year after all that's happened.
The added issue is that it's dd1's birthday on Boxing Day-so it's not even really possible to trade one day off for the other in our case without it being awful for her.
I just don't know what to do, so any advice would be welcome. Am I being unreasonable in wanting to go to my parents? This will be our first spilt up Christmas and I'm so sad that we arent even friends enough to spend it all together as we might have done. It was important to me that we were friends still-and all that is now screwed up really.But I'm still a bit shattered by it all and I can't see how I can do it at the minute.
Sorry this was so long.

So if you can't win, do what you want and take the girls for Christmas with their grandparents, which they've asked to do.

Your husband vacated the moral high ground long ago. You really don't have to take instruction about reasonableness from a married man who has sex with other women and lies about it.

And you really should consider getting the true story out there.

I wish her husband had told me sooner. He has since apologised. Se minimised what was going on and told him she would stop and they would stay together. He met my h twice to warn him off his wife. Of course I was the only one who didn't know and carried on going to gigs with them and weekends away with her. It's a bit of a sickener.
He was always quite sanctimonious yes, but it was never turned on me that much, or if it was I'd just gently tell him so and he would usually pull it in. She is now his chief cheerleader I guess so I'm bearing the brunt of it now with no one to tell him he is being a prick.
I'm really struggling with it all. I have days when I'm ok. And then days like today, probably prompted by it being the Girls first football training (she wasn't there fortunately although I didn't know that til I got there, and had spend the whole day feeling sick about having to see her for nothing), where I just feel awful. I was hoping to feel better by now-it's a little over 5 months since I found out.

I haves asked him what he will tell the kids when they decide to go public. He says they will say they have always been friends and now it's grown into something more.
The kids will see through that a mile off as they have only ever known her as my friend, and they know we are no longer friends. But that's his problem I suppose in terms of how its managed.
I wish I had had it out with her sometimes. Well I still could I suppose except it probably would go how I would want it to and what could she say really that would make it any better.

The more I read about your Ex the more I think he is a completely deluded...

I agree with the PP who said you don't need to have a relationship with him...

You have every right to be angry..You have every right to tell the children the truth...

He also seems like a control freak who wants to control you still...Your choice not to have a relationship, we will both be reasonable..

He has neither been reasonable or done the right thing to maintain a relationship..

Don't worry about wanting to have it out with her, if that's what it takes to help you feel better do it. I know I broke after having it out with her but it felt very good at the time, especially when I told her that I hadn't given her permission to speak to me until I had finished telling her what I had come to say. Her OH had to hold her back so she wouldn't strike me - I'm not a violent person but I had to get my anger at her out and tell her what I thought of her. Which I did, I left her with a reminder that if she called my daughter a liar in public again that I would publish her messages to my stbexh that I had copied from his phone.

Feel completely free to tell your children the truth, don't lie to them as they will find out eventually and then blame you for not telling them what they wanted to know. It's a very difficult position but my kids knew from the very start that I would be as truthful as I could be without going into specifics. They asked questions and I answered them.

Only 5 months! Don't give yourself a hard time. Not say it's the same situation, but I read somewhere that it's the first year and a day that's the hardest after someone dies - after a year and a day, you'll have done all the firsts.
This didn't stop happening to you when you found out about it. It's still happening every day, so it's hard to even start recovering.
Have you thought about counselling at all? I wonder if having someone completely outside talk to about how you're feeling would be useful.
It's hard. There will be a time in the future where it won't hurt so much. Gather in all your support in the meantime.
And have as little to do with him as possible.

When men like this say they want an 'amicable' separation, what they actually mean is that they want to carry on behaving like a twat and for you to accept their behavior and not pull them up on it.

5 months is not long to get your head round something as big as this. Your request re Christmas is not unreasonable (especially given that OW may well be with him on xmas day I guess and your DCs would find that difficult). If they have an inkling of what is going on, I would sit them down and tell them - better than hearing it from other people.

I am having some CBT which is working in that I am able to go to places I know she is likely to be like football training/school drop off without having the massive panic attacks I was having at the beginning, most of the time. Thought had better deal with that first before anything else as it wasn't practical not to be able to take the girls places they need to be. When that course of therapy concludes will think about some more Talking type counselling.
She won't be with him on Christmas Day as her kids don't know either-they don't even acknowledge each other in public bar the odd nod of the head, for that reason. Also I suspect that they believe if they leave it at bit the wider community of people that know us all won't think they are as shitty as they are (although everyone knows anyway-it's great gossip this I guess- if you aren't in it yourself).
Her now ex h has said that as soon as my h even attempts to go near his kids he will tell them exactly what has happened-not necessarily in the terms that would allow them any doubt about what kind of person my h is.Understandably he loathes my h. I don't know if that would be best for all the kids involved, but I will struggle a great deal with her spending any time at all with my DD's. I'm
Not sure I'm a good enough actress to pull off waving them off to spend time with her with a convincing smile on my face.

I think your children and the OW's children deserve to hear the truth from their own parents. They're likely to feel even more hurt and angry to find out from other people.

Personally I think for your own sanity I think you need to tell them..I also said it earlier they will be going back to school soon...Small town people talk worse hearing it in school.

This is almost something else off your tick list..

You can tell them in a matter of fact ..You don't have to describe what he has done with all the sentiment behind it and your opinion of both of them.

I think all this trying to hold it together and pretend something less happened is damaging you..

If I was your child living small town ( i do live small town so know the Chinese whispers) I would not want everyone else knowing and now me

OW's ex needs to be more considerate of his and your DC and control himself!

That said they will find out the truth sooner or later and better sooner and from you (in a measured way) IMO.

He's just trying to re-write history and paint himself in a better light.

Tough luck. He can reap what he's sown.

He does Dowser.But I can of course see his point. Additionally my h was very Vocal before all this about his dislike of her kids. ( they are quite bad mannered and obnoxious at times-general consensus from people that have had them round and found them to be quite challenging to deal with-not me projecting on to them).H had made many comments to others about this-not vindictively really-more comparing notes/sounding off after particularly difficult play dates) in the past.This has got back to her ex (not via me I might add). Therefore he feels even more protective of them in terms of them being near his kids which is understandable.
H of course just shook his head sadly when I raised that with him-and said 'why are you bringing that up-what a ridiculous thing to accuse me of' which is incredible given that nearly all of our mutual friends, in finding out about this said 'well he'll regret it when he has to live with those kids he doesn't like so much'.
He really does have an incredible capacity to rewrite the past. It's hard to battle against someone that convinced they are right.

Your children favour spending Christmas with your parents. That's good enough for me. Go.

This Christmas you do what your DC want, that's seeing your family, offer ex H to have a few days before and/or a few days after, he can do another Christmas with them if he wants.

As for telling the DC's. Are the Ex and Ex DF still together and wanting to continue their relationship? if so then sooner the better the DC are told tbh. Just matter of fact, no details. I was a child that wasn't told and when I found out I felt like I was the last to know and felt foolish. Word gets around.

They are still together-which I know only via her exh-my h won't discuss the current status of their relationship not any future plans with her as he 'wants to keep it private' and out of 'protective instinct' for her. And he says it's none of my business. That's actually made me cry as I type that as it all feels massively shit to me that I'm being told something that will affect my kids one way or another is none of my business.

It definitely sounds as if he is in overdrive about managing his public image so as not to be seen as the bad guy. Minimise his relationship with OW, prevent you from telling anyone about the affair then when he feels enough time has passed after you two separated then he will announce her as his new partner, as if it was the first time they got together.

I would not be party to that at all and would ensure my children know before they returned to school. It's easier to stand your own against other children when you know the facts yourself but if other children know before your children do then you may regret not telling them before school starts.

Remember, he is not in charge of you.

I know you are all right. But the right of it is terrifying.he will be livid. Her ex h will be livid. She will be (though j don't care at all about that). The backlash from everyone will be massive. I am going to have to do it for them really I know. But I'm very anxious about all of the above and also the effect on the kids, who have sales through all of this,(seemingly, but who really knows) to date.

*thought of it

You've done really well with your CBT and managing everything so soon after the shock and when your ex is being horrible. Please continue to seek RL help, eg talking therapy, as you have a LOT to handle!

What you tell your DC and when is up to you: no need to tell anyone your intentions. your H and others can think and say what they like, and if it's abusive you don't need to read it or listen.

You can be friends with people who are friendly to you. He is not by the sounds of it behaving in a friendly manner (or he wouldn't be screwing you financially, irrespective of who he's screwing). Friendship cuts both ways is all you need to say to him, no?

The money thing is slowly being sorted now as I think he realised he can't get away with it-and also, just maybe, he had an attack of conscience. I'd like to think so anyway.
I need to speak to him about October half term and he has also put Christmas on the agenda. I think I will again ask him when he is planning on telling the girls what's going on. If he says not at the moment then I will say that I don't think that's acceptable and that I will tell them.
Think it would only be fair to tell her exh that I am going to do that too, as it will affect what they have to do with their kids-they are friends so once one set of kids know the others pretty much will. Although on one hand I don't really give a fuck what happens to them (which sounds awful but I've only got so much capacity for being bothered about things that aren't my own girls), if we can avoid unnecessary damage to any of the kids involved that will be preferable.
I'm dreading all of these conversations.
This is is actually the worst I've felt since I first found out-I thought I was making progress and now feel back to square one.maybe as the girls and I hair got back from holiday and the reality of being home and school etc starting again (and all the added stress that being where she will be brings to me that goes along side) is hitting home.

Thank you for all of your replies-it is helping to get it all out a bit.

It would be better IMO to tell the DC before school starts and then tell H that you have done so. He can then tell OW and she and her ex can decide what to do with respect to their DC.

Telling him in advance will just bring drama.