Christmas issues

[ConkersDontScareSpiders]

I have recently separated from h, and though at first it was very amicable, that soon altered when it transpired he had been seeing my best friend for the year and a half before the break up and that they had both been acting in ways that were highly manipulative and unpleasant during that time.This has continued in various forms since I found out and there have also been some horrible discussions with h about money,which have been stressful and during which I feel he has attempted to screw me over a bit.
I have had some pretty bad anxiety/depression issues since finding out about this in March.I eventually lost my job, which Id started the day I found out and which was something I had worked so hard for.Im still finding it all quite hard to deal with.
Our two DD's (9 and 10) are unaware of the situation with h and my former best friend (though I think they have worked out that something is going on-small town, lots of gossip, and of course said friend is no longer in my house every few days as she had been-and the kids aren't totally oblivious to that kind of thing).h does not want to tell them and I haven't-against my better judgement really and also because her kids are friends with mine-so it would be something that would affect them too-as they are also apparently none the wiser.
The situation is very strained still and I am nowhere near back to being myself.
The girls are now asking what will happen at christmas. They have expressed a preference to go to my parents-a 3 hour drive away (as my dad is old and ill and they have a very good relationship with him and are concious that after a recent health scare he is not invincible).My parents do not want anything to do with ex h, (whereas in the past it might have been possible-it isn't yet and may never be, for him to come with us to spend Christmas at their house).
H and I have had some brief discussions re Christmas.he thinks it would be 'unreasonable' of me to say that we are not all four going to spend Christmas together 'as that's what we always said we would do' (which we did, even post split-but that was when we were friends, before his behaviour had become apparent and before he consequences for me had occurred).
I don't feel I can spend any prolonged time with him at the moment.we are polite in front of the kids, and other than stuff around the kids I am trying not to engage with him at all. The thought of spending Christmas with him is not Inspiring.However of course I also don't want to spend it without the girls-especially this year after all that's happened.
The added issue is that it's dd1's birthday on Boxing Day-so it's not even really possible to trade one day off for the other in our case without it being awful for her.
I just don't know what to do, so any advice would be welcome. Am I being unreasonable in wanting to go to my parents? This will be our first spilt up Christmas and I'm so sad that we arent even friends enough to spend it all together as we might have done. It was important to me that we were friends still-and all that is now screwed up really.But I'm still a bit shattered by it all and I can't see how I can do it at the minute.
Sorry this was so long.

[Tipsywipsy]

You need to stop being such a doormat and assert yourself. Tell your children that their father was seeing this 'friend' behind your back for a year. You tell them that because its the truth! Why are you protecting this man? Go and spend Christmas with your parents. If he wanted Christmas with the four of you he shouldn't have been sleeping with your best friend behind your back. He has to live with the consequences of his decisions. Fuck him. You also sound overly involved and caught up in his life. You need to detach for your own sanity. Let him go (I say this from experience, you will get there)

[clam]

I think I will again ask him when he is planning on telling the girls what's going on.

What's the point of that? If he tells them, it'll be his own white-washed version of events. You're only going to have to tell them the truth afterwards.

[clam]

Why are you protecting him and his "reputation?"

[SparkleSoiree]

It's almost as if you don't want the children to think bad of him in case he has a change of heart and wants to give the marriage another go. OR you honestly believed you could develop some kind of friendship with him and his new partner and the children would be protected from everything.

The real issue is that people never manage to suppress the truth, no matter how hard they try. In fact the longer people try, the more emotional damage it can cause. The truth has to come out otherwise it will be like a wound that scabs over but never heals and gets infected occasionally. It has to be faced and dealt with. Nobody in involved in this situation seems to want to address the truth of it and rather sweep it under the carpet. I can understand not wanting to face something very painful that you know will upset the children, yourself and others in the family but it's the only way to move forward with a clear mind.

This is your life and although it's totally your decision what choices you make you DO have to step up and take on full control of everything that affects yourself and your children. Please don't keep asking him when he will do things because all you are doing is showing him he has control of the situation and nothing will get done. It's scary, unsettling and can make you extremely anxious at the thought of assuming full control but the only way to do it is to grab the bull by the horns and start rebuilding your life the way YOU want it and according to your new rules.

You taking control will happen on the day you decide it will happen and not before. Anything else before then is you being a part of his life and playing by his rules.

[SharonfromEON]

Please don't keep asking him when he will do things because all you are doing is showing him he has control of the situation and nothing will get done. It's scary, unsettling and can make you extremely anxious at the thought of assuming full control but the only way to do it is to grab the bull by the horns and start rebuilding your life the way YOU want it and according to your new rules.

This

You now don't have to give a flying fuck about anyone but you and your children...

I have a friend whose Ex who has been walking over here and her kids for years..Last week she stood up to him and she is like a new woman this week..

I agree with the comments you need to remove yourself from his life as much as possible.. Get him off your FB at least not allow him to see your status.

The more you remove yourself the more you will be able to do what is right by you and your children...

The other kids dad his problem..He also knows small town people talk.
Mutual friends...Sorry but unlikely to stay that way.. Eventually they will be drawn to one side or another..

I think sit down on your own and see how you want to move things forward.. Then discuss with kids..

When I left my ex I watched every hospital dream a I could as he wouldn't have them on in the house..Now I watch them sometimes. There were other things.I didn't like so changed..

The thing about separation is you will know less and have less control about what he does but equally that applies to you..He has no right to know what you do or tell you how to live your life..

[HuskyLover1]

Oh gosh, a few similarities here. My ExH slept with my best friend. We were in the process of separating (due to his other infidelities), but I hadn't left the home yet and she was pretending to be my friend, whilst sexting with him, which eventually led to them dtd.

My children were similar ages to yours (9 and 11). I never told them what happened, but they didn't go on to have a relationship, so your scenario differs - I think you will have to tell them, but try to stay calm when doing so (hard I know).

Regards Christmas, I would definitely take the kids to your parents. They can have Boxing Day afternoon with your Ex. I think you will fall in to a pattern of alternating each year. Same for New Years and other events. It can feel a bit crap at times.

The only positive side, is that if you meet someone new (which you will), you will enjoy some alone time with him. I realise that's hard to imagine right now. But, I actually met my DH only 2 months after I left ExH. Whilst I would love to always have had my children with me, I did enjoy certain times without them, just by making the most of it. For eg, when ExH would take kids on holiday, me and DH would have a romantic holiday just the two of us.

My ExH was quite controlling and the only way to get my own way with some things, was to get really fierce. He would know when he'd gone too far, and back down. I would suggest you do the same. Tell him that Christmas is not up for discussion. Tell him what will be happening, there's no room for negotiation. He lost the right to see them Christmas morning when he left the family. It was HIS choice to do this. Remind him, that when you start seeing a new man, it would be impossible for the 5 of you to all spend Christmas together. And I really would say that. Let it sink in, that future Christmases may well consist of his DD's spending the day with you and another man.

Good luck.

[Toast3]

I think you have to do whatever 'gets you through' ...Christmas is a horrible time to be sad. It feels like emotions are multiplied by about 50...
Maybe plan to spend a few days with your parents and he can see the children when you're back...
Good luck OP

[Cary2012]

I agree you need to tell the kids. Calmly, but truthfully. Reassure them that you both still love them

My love, you can't protect them from what is happening. They will be fine and so will you. Kids are resilient, and they always know far more than we think they do.

Soon they will be old enough to make their own decisions about when, perhaps if, they see their dad. They will see exactly the man he is.

The more people you tell, the easier it will be. You owe him nothing, so don't go along with protecting the 'public image' of him and for him, any longer. The burden of doing so will break you, and achieve nothing.

[ConkersDontScareSpiders]

It's not that I want the children by to think badly of him because I want to give it another go.its that that I don't want them to think badly of him because he is their dad.

Boxing Day is dd1's birthday unfortunately which makes it even more complicated.

All of our mutual friends know what's happened and speak to him less, but remain polite to him. Most of them don't speak to her much at all.

I'm not over invested in his life per se.actually if it had been someone I didn't know and the pair of them hadn't lied to me, manipulated me and put me in unnecessary social situations seemingly in order to get some sort of thrill out of it for a year and half I don't think I would feel quite as rubbish as I do. Like I said the marriage was not good anyway but we were good friends and of course I feel sad to have lost that and to have found out the he is not in fact my friend and at the same time, neither is my actual 'best friend' iyswim.

I think you are all right that the kids need to know. But I just don't feel right about telling them shout first warning the other kids dad. Dunno why as he could have told me about the affair for a year and half before I found out, but then it shouldn't be a race to the bottom perhaps?

H had emailed today to suggest he goes to his mums for Christmas (an hour and a bit from my mums) and I have them for the morning and him for the afternoon and we do the reverse for dd1's birthday on Boxing Day.
Whilst in terms of time that's the fairest split I don't think it would be great for the girls and I can't imagine the horrendous was of handing them over at some half way point in the middle of Christmas Day. Maybe that's what we will have to do however.
He did also suggest that all the families get together for dd1s birthday. He won't accept that my parents do not want to talk to him anymore ( they had a good relationship before) and can't understand why I wouldn't want to spend time with people who have been hideous about me.

[ConkersDontScareSpiders]

Sorry for typo's. On a very hot and very busy train.

[DoinItFine]

Stop letting him push you around.

Just be really clear that your parents think he is a shit and his relationship with them is over for good.

Tell him the girls have asked to spend Christmas with their sick Grandad, so that is what you will be doing and he can spend next Christmas with them.

You need to look out for your children and be the one to tell them what all the town gossips know.

This bastard is so used to having you obey him that he actually thinks he gets to do it while he leaves the marriage and has a new girlfriend.

Just stop playing his game.

[clam]

I wouldn't be promising anything about future Christmasses if I were you. Sort this one first, and don't be drawn on future years.

[DoinItFine]

I would like to change my answer to what clam said.

[Emeralda]

Don't fragment Christmas Day like he suggests. It's better for the kids if they spend the full day and night in one place, and then go somewhere else the next day. What child wants to put down their presents and get in the car for over an hour, then do the whole thing all over again the same day? They'd be exhausted!
If a decision needs to be made now, I would say to him that you're taking them to your parents for Christmas Day. He will see them before Christmas and on Boxing Day, and you will get back to him at a later date about timings. In the meantime you will not be responding to any further emails about Christmas plans, as you have other priorities. End of.

[Dozer]

What the above posters said. He ended your relationship and one of the consequences is some christmases apart, starting with this one.

As for suggesting your parents spend time with him and his family - he really needs to get real!

[Dozer]

And why as well as your loser ex do you feel you have to consider/defer to OW's ex?!

[SharonfromEON]

I am not sure why Christmas is been such an issue in August. You say you recently split..Not sure how long..But I would tell him you are not discussing Christmas at this moment in time.. I think he is trying to railroad you while your all over the place..

[Emeralda]

How are you doing, Conkers?

I think Sharon might be right.

[DontMindMe1]

But I just don't feel right about telling them shout first warning the other kids dad. Dunno why
because you're used to always putting others before yourself?

you're not being 'selfish' by not giving prior warning to the other adults....there's 3 of them and not one of them has had the balls to tackle this in 5 months.

Put you and your dc first. they need to know who they can trust - and it isn't their dad. what the other adults do after your dc know is up to them.

[ConkersDontScareSpiders]

I guess because as well as my own there are two other poor kids involved in all of this. I feel sorry for them having a mother like that I suppose. And I see how broken her h is and I feel sorry for him too-rightly or wrongly.
I've had wine which won't help- but really if anyone can explain how it's possible for someone to tell another person that they mean the world to them whilst at the same time fucking them over in the worst possible way-I'd love to hear it. Because I still just don't get it really.

[SharonfromEON]

because you're used to always putting others before yourself?
Your next post talks about the other kids..

The only explanation is, he wanted his cake and eat it. One thing I learnt from my separation is as much as you will go round and round wondering why it is actually quite pointless..You will never understand how he and she did it because it is not in your nature....Another thing I have learnt is so common since been on mumsnet is once seperated your see a completely new side and things you never thought someone would do or capable is now seen in everyday behaviour.

As much as you can feel sort for her H, her kids you and your kids are the issue.. He has decided to stay with her, small town their kids will find out too.

You can tell the kids send him a text the kids know.. then they can all do what they like.. I will say though the kids don't need all the sordid details.. Just as factually and simply as they can so they are equipped to cope with whatever they hear at school.

I also think you need to cut as much communication with him as possible.. Don't answer any texts you don't want to..Obviously there are kids involved so going no contact is not an option. Set some rules up that do allow him contact but also give you the space to recover..

[Chloecoconut]

There's been some fantastic advice on this thread so I'm not going to repeat any of it - except to say please be the person that tells your kids. I've had to sit mine down and tell them something not so nice about their dad and it was awful but it would have been much worse for them if they'd found out via any other means. Tell them the basics eg 'do you remember that you asked why we don't see X anymore? Well actually it's because ...... and if they ask why you didn't tell them to start with you can say because you were (are still) upset and needed time to process it for yourself, that their dad still loves them etc. It might incur a backlash from your ex but better that your kids know that they can trust you to be honest with them. Send him and her ex H a text afterwards. The other kids aren't your responsibility, you have to put your own first because your ex didn't and won't and it's not your fault that there are other children involved.

Re Xmas - just say it's too soon and that you'll let him know the plans when you are ready. Then politely decline to discuss if it's mentioned again.

[Emeralda]

Sharon is probably right again!

You could start a new thread about telling them and you'd get some good advice. There was one recently about telling DCs in an age appropriate way and someone suggested saying Daddy has a wife and a girlfriend. When you get married, you promise not to have a girlfriend, so if you get a girlfriend, you can't stay married. That was for younger kids but I thought it was a great way of putting it.
You could consider having someone else with you for support, as long as they will be neutral.
You could also have a chat with them about how it might be when they go back to school. People might talk about what's happened because people always talk about other people (it's called gossip). Some things will be true, some won't. Suggest they check things out with you or (insert name of trusted relative here) if there's anything they're worried about. If you think it's appropriate, you could say you're upset about it but they are your main priority so they are not to worry about you. At that point you could say that Dad is allowed to have his private business like everyone else. Try to keep the conversation short, time it so you can bring it to an end and distract them with something else. "Ok, shall we watch this film/take the dog out for a walk now?" Don't do it at night.

If it's likely they'll find out who it is, I guess it's better to say her name.

I've never been in this situation so all this might be irrelevant to you! I found out as a young adult about the OW from someone else who assumed I knew already.

Are her kids in the same class? Are your kids teachers aware?

[legoqueen]

What a nightmare for you, OP, I really feel for you. I agree with other posters that you should tell the DCs about the OW before they go back to school, far better that they hear it from you in an age-appropriate way than via rumours. Stop protecting H's image. As for Christmas, calmly tell him that Christmas Day will be with Grandad - easy to say I know but you need to take back some control & not be bossed around by him any more

[Inertia]

You're going to give in to your husband's demands to keep him and OW happy, which will cause pain and inconvenience to your children, your parents, and you?

You don't have to do what he says. He left your family, including the children, to have unfettered access to OW. Your children are living through the shitstorm created by your husband. Don't wreck their Christmas and birthday to appease your git of a husband - it won't make you the more dignified person, you'll just be teaching your children that they must miss out so that their father can dictate everything on his own terms.