Can we have a thread for those of us who are daughters with difficult mothers?

[PinkyofPie]

Been thinking about starting this thread for a while.

My mother is a difficult and sometimes toxic woman and we have a strained relationship.

I think IRL there's not enough people around like me, all my friends are best friends with their mums. My mum recently moved back to the area and all I get is "oh I bet you're so happy". Actually, no, her being closer is awful if I'm honest.

There's so much to my relationship with her, too much for an OP.

A huge bone of contention is that she knows about a family member sexually harassing me quite badly through my teens (I've posted details in another name). I'm talking flashing, suggestive language and grabbing me now and again when no one was looking. I have told her the details. This person is still very much in her life, she bigs him up to anyone who listens and can't understand why I despise him and won't be near him. She minimised his behaviour massively and We Don't Talk About It.

She also made comments along the lines of "well did you lead him on?" yes mum, I was 16 and he was 55, I was gagging for it with a relative.

being in her presence is very tiring. She has no friends so I feel pressured to see her now she's back near me. I met her today, and I am drained. I always feel like I've done something wrong, she's in a constant mood. Everything is crap, she hates any food we eat, complains about people nearby and won't look for the good in anything. Where she lived before was so much better apparently. Spending just a few hours round that negativity is exhausting.

The funny thing is she makes out to others like we extremely close. A daughter of her friend - who I had just met that night - once said to me "I'm so jealous about the bond you and your mum have"

Anyway I know MN has lots of people who feel the same so thought I would start by having a place for us long suffering daughters to share, moan, vent and generally get everything out into the open!

(Long time member, first time posting!)

Some of these stories are like my life....others make me wonder is my mother really that bad?!

We were told to be grateful we were born....that we owed her for giving us life.

The house was the opposite of what many have posted here....it was "showhome" clean. But it was myself and sister cleaning from 8 or 9 years old. It was stupidly clean and tidy. Nothing out of place. I'm now the opposite....walk into my house and you know there are kids here. Would rather spend time with them than do housework (house is clean, just disorganised).

After a string of boyfriends and fiancées (parents divorced when I was small...it was always our fault her relationships failed) we had a bully of a stepfather. He assaulted my DS and SN DB. Tried it with me a couple of times but I hit back. They split but it was our fault, if only we'd behaved better, didn't wind him up etc. Of course we didn't (wind him up). As kids we were pretty well behaved, no drink or drugs, no trouble with school, never bunked off. Even when he was finally removed (she let him back) by the police and she admitted we were not to blame we NEVER got an apology. She's never apologised for anything in her life.

Her life was shit and it was everyone else's fault. She'd wish herself dead. Never hugged, kissed or the told us she loved us.

At 14 I found a letter she was writing to a friend in which she stated she couldn't wait for us to turn 16 so she could throw us out. She didn't though as she wanted the child benefit and maintenance money from our father.

My DS had a son illegitimately....got called some pretty vulgar names throughout the pregnancy. Mother cried every day until a few days after baby was born and never told her family about the new addition!

I had a spell of NC just after I had DC1 &2. She couldn't bully my (now ex) husband into doing work for her and I couldn't (wouldn't) force him so there was a big row. They never spoke again.

The final straw was a mix of things. She got involved with a particular political party (or rather a man in the party) and turned into a nasty racist. Said some vile things about refugees, and suggested (not subtly!) that my daughter was likely to get raped (by those Muslim terrorists!) if I didn't vote 'out'. My DD (13) was so upset she left the room and both my DC refused to go with me on my next 2 visits. Neither want any further contact. I have a younger DC with DP and we have decided we don't want her having contact with DC. Not having him listening to her poison.

She was wishing her terminally ill husband (2nd stepfather) dead asap so she could throw his stuff out and move the new man in.

Got into an argument with DS on FB and her and mother reported me to the police. I'd done nothing wrong and can prove it. Not spoken to either since apart from when my SF passed away. I called her and she proudly informed me she wasn't even going to collect her husbands ashes....poor sod wasn't even dead 12 hours, I doubt she even shed a tear except for the benefit of anyone involved with collecting him (he died at home).

She's poisonous. Had NC now for 6 weeks. I went to my SF funeral but stayed well away from them and left via the back door straight after.

I feel better for NC however I'm on pins. DM is rather fond of poisonous pen letters and sends them to anyone she feels has wronged her. And for good measure sends them to the wrong-doers friends and family too. After the first NC years ago she sent a nasty letter to my then MIL full of BS and putting me down. She's done this to family, friends, 2 x DS (also NC) ex-boyfriends and even people's bosses and ministers of their church!

Feel better for getting that all written down!

Mine was competitive in the "life is hard" stakes. It seemed to personally offend her that her life had been harder than mine. Like, if I wasn't having a shit time I was spoiled, especailly if that involved doing anything that she didn't approve of or wouldn't have done personally.
Also saw my now DH as competition from quite early on.
Mine did the suicide thing, not a pact with me but threatened it a lot (or threatened that I was "driving her to a breakdown") and once got me to watch as she flushed her sleeping pills down the toilet. Told me she'd been saving them up to kill herself but wouldn't now, that I was the only thing stopping her.
No pressure there then.

Nonibaloni I'm so glad you've been approved for a guide dog. You and your son must be so pleased! And you are a good mother to protect your son from attitudes like your mum's. Constant criticism for not 'being normal' did me more harm than my disabilities ever did, and of course for toxic mothers it's always all about what other people will think.

CancellyMcchequeface I never felt safe.

I remember the first time I ended up in care. I was about 2/3 years old. I remember the bedroom and the bed I was given, the other children and remember the feeling of being safe. The following day I remember screaming that I didn't want to leave when I was told they were returning me to my mother.

That is one of my first memories.

That's really terrible. I'm so sorry. I don't know what's wrong with parents who don't make their children's safety their first priority. I honestly can't understand it. I know that my mother had a whole lot of issues from her own childhood but that doesn't excuse it, to my mind. Nothing does. I hope things are better for you now. Adulthood has its own problems, yes, but I'm so much happier now than when I was younger.

I was considerably older than you were when social services got involved with my family, but I remember being told that it was entirely my fault (I wasn't attending school because I was caring for my younger siblings full time - mother was too drunk to and I was very protective of siblings and wouldn't leave the youngest who was too young for school alone with her. I don't regret this at all - my sister's safety and wellbeing meant much more than disruption to my education.) and feeling guilty because a 'good daughter' would need to be physically dragged away from her mother instead of going with the police sensibly. Later found out the referral wasn't because of me at all, but the damage was done by that point.

It really helps to have a thread to write about this stuff without getting the 'yes, but you only have one mother so forgive her' replies.

Nonibaloni my mother was sectioned on a regular basis hence why I ended up in care or in the care of a relative who didn't want me. But she always got out/ "recovered" .
She was put in straight jackets, padded cells, had electric shock treatments to the point of not being able to remember who I was.
I cant remember ever loving her.

Our house ranged from being absolutely clinically spotless in rooms that we didn't use to something out of an obsessive hoarders house in the kitchen or living rooms. I couldn't bring anyone back. She would start cleaning the rooms that were spotless in the morning. We had chandeliers in every room and every droplet had to be cleaned everyday. There was never enough time to get down to clean the kitchen.
If I tried to help with the cleaning then she would just go over everything I had done because it was not right.

She once whilst I was at work.when i had moved out and got a flat with dp. ( we held down full time jobs and several part time ones so we would leave the flat at 7am and sometimes didn't get back till 2.30 the following morning.) she and an aunt wangled the spare keys from a neighbour and let themselves in and cleaned our flat.
I was then told I was not fit to live on my own as I couldn't look after myself. They also discovered that dp lived there too and for the rest of the time I was in contact with her I was called a whore and that I had given my virginity away and no one would put a ring on my finger.

Dp and i are still together and I am the one who doesn't want to get married.
They were waiting in the flat at 2.30 am to tell us off and I think accept our gratitude for a clean flat.
She and my aunt couldn't comprehend that we were beyond angry. To the point of waking the neighbours and the police being called.

What i really don't get is she couldn't comprehend that she was being asked to leave my flat. And couldn't comprehend that her cleaning was not wanted
Fortunately dp got a job in London. The day we left was the day i went NC. I remember dp driving round the roundabout on to the motorway and a feeling I had never felt before wash over me. Freedom.

olivers I am sorry if I seemed flippant over sectioning. What these mothers have in common is convincing the world including their daughters that it's not their fault. I really didn't mean to suggest sectioning would solve the problems. I do have a big mouth and that's all me sorry xx

No problem Nonibaloni.
If you didn't live it you wouldn't know.

What I couldn't understand growing up is how if when the SWs handed me back to her saying she had been ill and was now well again why like clockwork 12 weeks later she would be climbing the walls of her padded cell and I would be back in care. Why I couldn't have stayed in care will be one of those unanswered questions

Noninaloni. Mine would be saying the same as yours re the guide dog.

Glad your ds is getting someone who is going to transform his life. I knew a family who trained guide dog pups. The hardest part was handing them back to finish off their training. They were gorgeous pups.

Noni - great news about the guide dog - hope your DS and it get along well :-)

I had a lot of the "What will people think" from my mother. We live in a small town and she still thought like it was the 1950s. The truth was, nobody but her gave a shit.

My ultimate experience of bringing shame on her was to get divorced. She couldn't move on and accept me or lovely new DP even though my kids and friends and other family members did.

Don't miss her one bit

Oh my goodness yes, my wedding! I'd forgotten. My mum wasn't anything like as bad as some on here. But her speciality was spoiling stuff in hindsight. With my wedding, it all went off OK - she was just a bit catsbum face during the day. We did the old-fashioned thing of going off on honeymoon after lunch, leaving guests to either disperse or stay for dinner. Mum decided she hated my FIL (who had a heart of gold but could appear a cantankerous bugger). Cue, a few weeks later, almighty vitriol about how horrid he had been, how it was all my fault for going off and leaving her, how dreadful DH must be if he had a father like that....I was still deep in FOG at that time so it upset me tremendously.

Oh yes, DM stormed out of my wedding reception when FIL asked my darling wonderful aunty (DMs only sister) to dance.

She has tried to ruin every single nice thing that ever happened to me.When I told her I was going to start teacher training she laughed in my face saying "You! A teacher!? Don't be ridiculous, you could never do that." Well I am HOD now, largely because I went NC once training was underway and didn't have the drip drip drip of poison affecting my self esteem.

"Did any of you get the retort "you'll understand when you have children"
When you dared to complain about your treatment?
Well
Guess what?
I have 2 children, and her actions are even more indecipherable to me now than they were then 😞"

Yes, totally this! I used to think it was just so hard being a parent, especially one to a child as awful as me, now I just think how the fuck could you be so cruel and unloving to a child?

I used to think it wasn't her fault as she was young when she had me and my father was abusive. But hey, guess what, I was younger when I got pregnant by am abusive man and I manage to do better than her with my own daughter. I am so desperately afraid of turning into her and having my relationship with my daughter turn into mine and my mother's. A small part of me would like another child but I won't ever have one in case it somehow made me reject Dd in favour of the new child, like she did me. I know, I know that while I'm more like her than I would like, I am so much a better mother than she 2ver was or is. I just hope I can keep it up.

My mother is nowhere near as bad as some of you descibe, but everything was and still is always my fault. Everything is minimised, she changes history, "doesn't remember" the horrible stuff that happened, expects me to gloss over everything and "just stop feeling like that" (her actual words!). If I try to talk about how I feel it's all "oh yes, blame me, its all my fault" so basically how I feel is brushed aside to make her feel better.

We also had the thing where I apparently rejected her as a toddler so she pushed me away and stopped showing me affection. Now I just can't bear to be touched by her, the thought just turns my stomach. We've never been close since I've been an adult but I desperately craved her approval and wanted to tell her everything about me and try to please her. We recently had an argument and something inside me just clicked. I'm not going NC, I don't feel the need to, but my boundaries are well and truly in place now. I don't feel the need to speak to her other than polite chit chat, I don't need or want her to know about my life. It feels freeing.

for everyone

Any advice? Just had a conversation with my M, the first time in 10 days. I hung up on her because she was screaming at me. The short version is she does not think she owes me an apology for screaming at me (she acknowledges she did this) because she was disappointed with a plan being cancelled. Reasons for not needing to apologise - her age, she was disappointed the plan had changed, "we should draw a line and move on". She also agreedwd that if the roles were swapped she would expect an apology.
I kept my cool, was polite and didn't put up with any of her shit, but am left feeling v down due the conversation and her expectation that things "should continue as before".

None from me I'm afraid bananas. I never worked out how to deal with my mum. It's awful to say it, but her being gaga and non-verbal in a care home has been such a relief.

Can you just disengage? Not initiate contact, and be very bland/non-committal if she does? Not full NC but what my DH would call the "Geoff Boycott straight bat" approach.

Sadly bananas I think with these kind of people they're stuck between never apologising yet never wanting reprimanded for their terrible behaviour. Stand your ground but I wouldn't expect an apology. I agree with slippery, disengage for a little while

Ah yes, my wedding. My ex boyfriend was an usher at the wedding - he was a friend of DH and the split had been amicable. My mother came up to me at the wedding and said "Everyone is wondering why you didn't marry your ex, as he's so lovely." She didn't have a good word to say about him when we were going out.

DFIL and DMIL left early when the party was in full swing as DMIL had only been out of hospital after quite serious surgery a few weeks. They just disappeared quietly, telling us they were off, as they didn't want to break up the party. When my mother found out, she deemed this unacceptable and phoned them the next day to scream at them for being "rude, common and having no manners." They haven't spoken since. That was 23 years ago.

Thanks Pinky and Slippery. I'm not going to phone her in the foreseeable future, there's no point. No doubt I'll have adverse comments from my sisters (my M claims she has a "wonderful" relationship" with!)

Bananas
Think you're wasting your time thinking you'll get an apology.
Even if you hound her for it, she might say it but not mean it,and would behave same way at earliest opportunity!
If mine is forced to apologise, she'd do it ,but will manage to blame someone else while apologising!
Her apologies are false and sometimes I think she truly doesn't get where she's gone wrong and why she needs to apologise.

I confronted my DM recently about some really serious lies she had been telling about me. She pretended to have a heart attack, full on chest clutching, slumped in the chair, pretend heart attack with sound effects. I had a witness in my aunt, DM's sister, who was opened mouth shocked at what DM did. She has been manipulating people for so long she doesn't know any other way. It just doesn't work with me any more I have nothing left to give, she has sucked me dry

I wasn't going to post on here because I am in an impossible situation, DM is elderly & vulnerable & whatever she does I am going to be there for her. She doesn't deserve it but that is the way it will be.

Lord I can very much relate. When I confronted my mum about my abuser that she forgave, she had a 'heart attack'. She thought it would make me drop the issue but I didn't!

pinky- it really is the most despicable form of manipulation.

Lord and Pinky I've got a difficult mother but also a nightmare MIL too - who was on the phone earlier pretending to have a stroke (background is that after some of her latest antics I said I wanted a break from having her round for a bit. However she has boundary issues and is obsessed with seeing DD so has been ringing every day, multiple times, to try to get DH's attention.) MIL has a long history of malingering antics which she uses to try to manipulate DH, which normally involve ringing up and telling him she has some kind of very serious health problem which magically "disappears" as soon as she gets to come round.

She's never tried the stroke one before but rang up saying piteously that something was terribly wrong, she was going numb (plus slurring words for dramatic effect). In case you think we are heartless buggers, we have enough experience with MIL's attention seeking not to be at all worried, and surprisingly when DH said "well, it's a shame you're having a stroke, as we were going to invite you round tomorrow to see DD", instantly she "felt much better" and stopped slurring her words, saying quite brightly that she'd be popping round at 7am then

This does drive me crackers - it's truly amazing what a medical miracle she is having recovered so well from a multitude of dreadful conditions which are conveniently never mentioned again (and once you start asking her about what is actually going on it all falls apart, ringing up saying she is dying of cancer inevitably turns out on further questioning to mean that she has got a GP appointment for a mild cold or similar. )

Yep Lord, almost like "you can't say anything to me again because you'll cause me a heart attack"

Do you know what, something I've picked up on on this thread is people saying they were scared to have girls of their own.

When I was pregnant with DC1 I was desperate for a boy. I wouldn't entertain the idea of having a girl. I only looked at boys clothes in the shop and we didn't pick a girls name out. I never knew why as I didn't particularly prefer little boys to little girls. The strength of feeling always baffled me.

I had a DD. I suffered a bit from undiagnosed PND and - this is the first time I've admitted this - with that came gender disappointment. My DD is 3 now and wonderful and gorgeous and I wouldn't Change her for all the tea in China. I now think "what did I want a boy for?". When I realised I could actually do this parenting thing and not fuck up I felt so much better. I'm 4.5 months pregnant again and would adore another girl. Happy with a boy too of course!

I'm beginning to wonder if those feelings of gender preference are at all related to my relationship with mum. I can't say for certain but it's definitely food for thought

I was the same as you Pinky the notion of having a girl just did not enter my head. In fact I a can recall my OH saying (this was pre gender scans) "Don't get yourself certain on having a boy" Reading other people's posts I do think this was due to my own distant relationship with my mum.