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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Can we have a thread for those of us who are daughters with difficult mothers?

538 replies

PinkyofPie · 10/08/2016 00:09

Been thinking about starting this thread for a while.

My mother is a difficult and sometimes toxic woman and we have a strained relationship.

I think IRL there's not enough people around like me, all my friends are best friends with their mums. My mum recently moved back to the area and all I get is "oh I bet you're so happy". Actually, no, her being closer is awful if I'm honest.

There's so much to my relationship with her, too much for an OP.

A huge bone of contention is that she knows about a family member sexually harassing me quite badly through my teens (I've posted details in another name). I'm talking flashing, suggestive language and grabbing me now and again when no one was looking. I have told her the details. This person is still very much in her life, she bigs him up to anyone who listens and can't understand why I despise him and won't be near him. She minimised his behaviour massively and We Don't Talk About It.

She also made comments along the lines of "well did you lead him on?" Hmm yes mum, I was 16 and he was 55, I was gagging for it with a relative.

being in her presence is very tiring. She has no friends so I feel pressured to see her now she's back near me. I met her today, and I am drained. I always feel like I've done something wrong, she's in a constant mood. Everything is crap, she hates any food we eat, complains about people nearby and won't look for the good in anything. Where she lived before was so much better apparently. Spending just a few hours round that negativity is exhausting.

The funny thing is she makes out to others like we extremely close. A daughter of her friend - who I had just met that night - once said to me "I'm so jealous about the bond you and your mum have" Confused

Anyway I know MN has lots of people who feel the same so thought I would start by having a place for us long suffering daughters to share, moan, vent and generally get everything out into the open!

OP posts:
contrary13 · 12/08/2016 09:48

Mrs - I get similar, from mine. She likes to keep reminding me how "bloody awful" I was when I was a child. I didn't sleep, apparently, between two and 19 months - so she "had to be put on sleeping pills from the doctors, just so that [she] could get some sleep!" When I asked her what the doctor had suggested be done about my lack of sleep, she said "oh, nothing; he just agreed with me that you were a bloody awful child and should be left in your cot, with the door shut so that I couldn't hear you screaming!"

And then there's the litany of her complaints about how quiet I was, how I kept hugging my Gran, how I didn't like the food she made for me (she used to shove spoonful, after spoonful, after spoonful into my mouth without giving me time to swallow any of them - it's a good job I inherited my Gran's jowls, because I learned at a very young age to shove the spoonfuls into them so I didn't choke!). And the one I find most heartbreaking? How she forced DB1 (who was 16 at the time) to teach me how to read, when I was 2 years old, because I "kept pestering [her] all of the time to read to [me] - book, after book, after book and [I] kept shoving them onto [her] lap when [she] was trying to watch the TV!"

My father worked away a lot of the time (military) but I understand now that, when he was home, he enabled her neglect of us. My Gran did her best to make sure we had decent meals (my mother refuses to cook, because apparently that's my father's "job"), and cuddles, and I spent pretty much all weekend, every weekend in her home, tucked up in my father's childhood bed, so that my mother could "have a break". And yes, I did prefer to cuddle my Gran, because I knew without doubt that she loved me.

Deep down, I know that my mother had a shit childhood (out of four children, only my mother still speaks to my maternal grandmother... who I refuse to have anything to do with, or allow my children anywhere near, she's that toxic!), but because of that... so did I. Yet I still manage to tell my children that I love them (even my daughter, who has spectacularly gone off the rails knows that I love her... I just don't trust her at the moment), and help them with homework, and listen to them without making it all about me. I might not be the world's greatest cook, but I manage to cook them dinners, and help with their lunches, and make sure that cereal or toast is eaten for breakfast instead of biscuits or cake... I read endless books to them both when they were tiny, and I read to them every night before bed. My DS is 11 now, and I only stopped reading to him before bed a few months ago because he wanted to read to me, instead. I attend parents evenings, and I fuss around them when they're poorly because I'm worried. I don't leave them to it like my mother did to DB1 and myself (DB2, the Golden Child, had endless attention from her). And I have never left my daughter, who is 8 years older than my son, to look after him, the way DB1 was left to mind me.

OP - thank you for starting this thread. It's very cathartic. Like you, I have spent years thinking that I was the only one who had a mother who hated them. All of my friends have fantastic relationships with their mothers, and I've wasted years thinking/believing that there was something wrong with me because I didn't. Flowers to you in gratitude.

kittykittykitty5 · 12/08/2016 10:22

This thread is so supportive, as I am reading through more and more things go “ping” inside my head. The passive-aggressive cleaning!

My Mother had an obsession from the day I left home that my kitchen cupboards HAD to be laid out exactly the same way as hers. So much so in fact that if she was (it was extremely rarely) looking after the children it would take the entire time at my house to get my cupboards “back to where it should be”.

Lots of stuff broken as well, which gets blamed on her "grip" of all things. I can understand a can-opener breaking but a patio door ffs? Total refusal to close stairgates when LOs were tiny, which resulted in kids injured. Always thought this was done deliberately so I would not ask her to look after them.

Passive-aggressive laundry anyone? I lost count of the number of outifts (always the expensive ones or the ones I got the most compliments in) being ruined in the laundry then replaced with her choice of clothes. Never just given the money back to replace in my own time or taste. Undies were always destroyed as well, M&S 80s underwear was not easy to destroy by any means. Matching sets of underwear was only worn by slags apparently, and wearing an underwired bra made me look like a tart (I was a 34DD) and I should be minimising not “showing them off all the time”.

I used my first paypacket to kit myself out for work, an entire working wardrobe of separates and dry-clean only suits. They were all destroyed a week later by being washed together, even though they had been hanging in the wardrobe and didn’t need washing. Some still had their labels on.

Interesting how it was executed and presented to me as well, it was a day when unusually my parents had visitors. They never hosted anyone. Caterers had arrived at lunchtime and for some reason The Mother had decided to launder my clothes for absolutely no reason. I arrived home at seven in the evening to the fake drama, tears and performance of a Narc saying how they tried to do something to help you. But in true controlling Narc style they ruin your things and have replaced them with their choice of things from lovely Littlewoods and BHS, and why are you being so bloody ungrateful and horrible as always. Of course followed by the “victim” face and all the enablers sympathising.

darlingred · 12/08/2016 11:02

UptownFlunk - your first paragraph sums up my feelings completely. 15 years nc. Best decision I ever made.

I will keep moving forward and have a successful and positive work life/relationship with my children.

Oliversmumsarmy · 12/08/2016 11:08

Mine told my work colleagues, (she came round to my flat when I was having a bit of a get together and had sent me to get biscuits from the shop downstairs) I was painfully shy, easily led and a chain smoker.
I was more like the loud mouthed ringleader.
It was just before my 21st. Despite knowing and working with me for 2 years and never once seeing me with a cigarette I got 12 very fancy expensive ash trays as presents.

Would it be awful to say I think I never felt any love for her.
She used to threaten to kill me and herself in some sort of twisted joint suicide pact as she knew I wouldn't be able to survive on my own. I always cooked for myself from as far back as I can remember as I didn't trust her to not poison my food.
When I announced that I was moving to London she would spend hours telling me that I would be raped murdered or scammed out of all my money and my dp would dump me and l would end up living on the streets.

Suffice it to say none of these things happened.

Nonibaloni · 12/08/2016 11:08

This all sounds so familiar, some a lot worse, so greatful to my dad for keeping me safe long enough to move out.

I bought pots stands but not the same ones and my mum has, a year ago and they come up in conversation at least once a week. When am I going to buy the proper ones?!

I referenced my Dh earlier but we're not actually married. I have refused on the grounds that even thinking about how mum would react gives me a burning sensation in my belly. I have such a clear picture of me in a white dress helping my lift some dirty box from her car while everyone else was eating.

Ranting feels amazing, especially when no one is saying I must be overreacting.

contrary13 · 12/08/2016 11:48

Noni - like you, I'm not married and never will be... because I cannot stand the thought of watching my mother make herself centre stage. Even thinking about it now makes my stomach turn. She turned my Prom into her night (flirting with my ex-P like no one's business, and insisting that I couldn't wear the dress I wanted to, but had to wear some God-awful, tight fitting black velvet ankle length, keyhole cut in the cleavage, monstrosity which had been hers in the '60s... and smelt of mothballs and in patches was doing that weird thing crushed velvet does when it's starting to go mouldy). I look back at the photos and still feel self-conscious about that dress, even though all of my friends said I looked great (I really didn't!). She also insisted that my daughter's Prom dress be chosen by her (because she'd promised to pay for it, she got to design it, essentially), but thankfully was away on the actual date.

I'm dreading my daughter ever getting engaged or married. Because I know damned well my mother will swoop in and replace me as "mother of the bride", because she won't ever be one herself. I know she'll turn my daughter's wedding day into being all about her as opposed to my daughter, whilst doing her utmost to make me feel like shite. She's already informed us that my father will be walking my daughter down the aisle... even though my daughter has a father of her own, if she chooses to have anyone walk her down the aisle at all!!! (All of this supposing that she even wants to get married. She might not. It's her choice, after all, no one else's...)

Kitty - when my DS was a few days old, my mother took it upon herself to clean our "filthy" home (actually, it was pretty darned clean... because I cannot be around mess) and totally rearranged all of our kitchen cupboards. I was snoozing at the time of her arrival, ex-P let her in (I think) before he left for work, and when I asked her what on earth she thought she was doing, I was lectured about how dirty the place was. At that point, not only was I doing absolutely everything for both of my children by myself, but I'd hoovered and dusted and wiped down all of the surfaces that morning in between doing my daughter's hair and feeding my son. Who was... a few days old. (my ex-P wasn't living with us at the time, he was still with his mummy and daddy, but he'd stayed over that particular night-before... and still left me to do all the night feeds, the nappy changes, the getting everyone up and moving for school/work, the breakfast, the cleaning, the nagging our daughter to get ready, the changing of our son's clothes after an explosive nappy, more feeding, the housework, the doing of our daughter's - very long at that point - hair, and then... the taking of our daughter to school 6 miles away, with our son!). But apparently my tea mug left in front of the kettle (only used once that day, and it was there so that I could have a cup of tea when I got up from my snooze with my newborn without having to stop and think about it too much) and a baby's bottle standing outside of the sterilising unit... made our home "filthy" and she had to sort it all out.

The irony is that I grew up in Army Quarters... which she never did any housework, of any sort, in. My DBs and I'd go to school covered in dog hair and smelling of stale cigarette smoke, every day. How on earth no one reported her to social services, I don't know. Sometimes I wish that they had. Maybe we would have been happier.

Nonibaloni · 12/08/2016 11:55

Thank you so much contrary. I've mentioned the no wedding thing and people say to just get on with what I want but that's because they don't know what it's like. First day of work in my brand new business suit, had to quickly trim a hedge for her at 6.30 am. Going to a close friends wedding had to quickly help her reupholster a sofa after getting my hair done. That's not to mention walking into an exam with the words "you aren't good enough to sit this exam, you'll be so embarrassed and I'll be mortified when you leave, best stay away from home for a while" ringing in my ears.

If only it was choosing roses over lilles!

contrary13 · 12/08/2016 12:15

Noni - when my DB1 got married (and he was always adamant that he never would, too), she loudly insulted my SIL's family as "not being good enough to marry into [her] family!", and admitted (again loudly) that she'd tried to talk DB1 out of marrying my SIL only that morning... all because she dated my SIL's uncle when they were teenagers - and he had the audacity to dump her! She also (loudly) insulted the bride's dress, the bridesmaids weight, and spoke with a really affected "too many plums in her mouth" voice for the entire day - when she wasn't sneering at the food, the bride, the bride's family, the table decorations...

(My SIL and her family, incidentally, are genuinely lovely, and I'm so happy that DB1 has them.)

DB2 ran off to Gretna Green for his first wedding, then to Vegas for his second, and both times? He didn't tell our mother at all, until after.

Me? I have absolutely no intention of ever getting hitched. My children, however... well, my daughter primarily, because she doesn't like my son at all... are the only grandchildren my parents have a relationship with. DB1 is NC with them and they've never met his son, and DB2's son from his first marriage is 22 now and hasn't seen my mother since he was... 9 or 10. Plus, she's very scathing about the fact that he became a stripper on a cruise ship going to Australia in order to earn enough money to be allowed to stay there for a while. He lives there now for most of the year, from what I can gather, and only comes back to the UK to sort his visas out. Personally, even though I have virtually no relationship with him at all (his mother's very like mine...), I'm actually very proud of him for having the nous to work his way to the other side of the world rather than taking the easy road... But anyway; I'm dreading if they ever get married. Because I know she'll do the same as she did to DB1 and his bride. Or take over and turn the day into being all about her. She can't stand not being the focus of everyone's attention and, as grandmother of the bride/groom... well, there's not much attention coming her way, is there?

But she'll never be mother of the bride. That I can guarantee Sad

PinkyofPie · 12/08/2016 12:46

I referenced my Dh earlier but we're not actually married. I have refused on the grounds that even thinking about how mum would react gives me a burning sensation in my belly. I have such a clear picture of me in a white dress helping my lift some dirty box from her car while everyone else was eating.

I totally get this and this is why DH & I eloped. I was only 24 when I got married and still young and easily manipulated, she did the whole dramatic "I'll never see my daughter in her wedding dress" crap. After much pushing I agreed to have a party at home in her garden, I said we'd wear our wedding outfits. She wanted a proper ceremony and hired a vicar! Despite us saying we're actually atheists. When the vicar came round a few days before the party to meet us (at which point I realised my mum had hired her) I was very upfront and said "I don't mean to be rude but we're not religious and I dont think it would be right to perform a blessing". Mum then went on to say how the reason my DH wasn't religious is because "he lost his faith after seeing friends die in Iraq" Shock he was in Iraq but has never been religious and I can't believe she exploited his experience like this.

The blessing stayed though, against my will because mum threw a tantrum. If it was now I'd be stronger and stand my ground but I was different back then. The worst part was she made the man who sexually harassed me give me away. She knew by this point what he's done. But she "announced" it in front of her friends so I couldn't object.

the actual day was awful. She said she'd sort the chairs for the 'ceremony' and dug out these disgusting white plastic ones covered in dirt. I'd had my hair done and was ordered to help her scrub them clean. It was mortifying. And because everyone round her is fooled by her they were all "come on Pinky help your mum out after she's letting you have this in her garden" Hmm

When people arrived they were mostly her mates we weren't expecting. I got quite pissed (everyone was hammered) and started to have a really good laugh, I was told to calm down. I honestly wonder if she staged or faked this next bit because she saw the fun I was having, but she suddenly tripped over her massive dog and put her back out. Cue lots of drama, loads of people being centered around her, people fussing, her wailing in front of everyone and insisting she doesn't go to hospital. Of course I had to sit on her bed as she cried about her back, I couldn't enjoy my party. For something that went on from 5pm - 1am I enjoyed about 20 minutes of it.

The party took place about 2 months after our actual wedding and mum counts it as our 'real' wedding day and sends an anniversary card on that date, rather than our actual wedding anniversary. She always says what a good time everyone had and how lucky I was to have a mum like her who'd do something like that for us Angry

I wish we'd never bothered, we got pictures of the day developed but they're in the attic as I can't stand the sight of them. I hated most of it and felt sick when my abuser lead me down the aisle (sadly dad couldn't be there as he was working abroad at the time).

OP posts:
SymphonyofShadows · 12/08/2016 13:13

Thank god I found this thread, I've just decided I'm done and I'm going to go as near NC as I can. I started a thread about her couple of months back because she revoked the POA she set up at Christmas as a sort of punishment because I went and visited DP's aunt who really needed help. My mother has very little sight and has been relying on me to do everything since the onset of her AMD, despite me having two sisters. They have been to the odd hospital appointment with herand think that's enough.

Yesterday she had a bad appointment as the eye clinic and has now decided to blame me for her blindness. Apparently I said something in the initial consulation after the lastest sight loss which led to a delay in treatment which has "cost her her eyesight". FFS. I can't take the abuse anymore. I feel so dreadfully guilty and she will be expecting me to go to M&S later for her, even though I have told her I'm finished and it's someone else's turn. I just can't keep doing it.

InternationalHouseofToast · 12/08/2016 13:41

Goodness, I've been nodding along with so much of these. I was so glad when my DC turned out to be a boy because I couldn't have brought up a DD in all consciousness, it would have been too much like my "DM" and me / my sister.

The woman is just so self-absorbed. Whether I phone her to check she's still alive or she phones me, she just goes through her mental list of things she wants to say then hangs up. She has no empathy or interest in our lives.

She stayed with an abusive twat for 15 years rather than admit that she'd been wrong to leave my dad for someone she had an affair with. Only it wasn't her he was abusive to, only her children. And that was our fault because we should have told someone. He particularly picked on my sister as he'd also had an abusive childhood as the younger son (was meant to be a girl) so too it out on the younger girl in our family. When he threw a bowl at my sister's head, my mother decreed that was her fault, as a 12 year old. Angry

She is a better grandmother than she was a mother but that's because it's such a superficial relationship. She just has to hug him the twice a year she sees him and maybe buy him an ice cream. I wouldn't trust her to have him overnight though.

Everything has to be about her and what she sees as right - she had to stay with us when she got divorced for the 3rd time and had a screaming match with my DH because we'd agreed that I work FT and he work PT. She thought I should be at home and he should be putting an effort into finding a FT job.

It's cathatic on here but it's so hard seeing friends who have good relationships with their mothers, and go out for coffee together and share the same interests. I'd drive myself mad trying to unpick what we did to not get one of those mothers. I'm just hoping that DS thinks I'm a bloody good mother, he seems to so far, at 7. By that age I'd already worked out that she wasn't interested in protecting her children or putting them first. Sad.

AndTheBandPlayedOn · 12/08/2016 14:08

Here too, she was a bipolar alcoholic. She died at 54, when I was 18. I'm 54 now and the legacy of her treating me as if I were invisible still affects me. When my children were small and I had no help (beyond my dh and his mum was another piece of work ), I would pause and remind myself that it was a good thing.

I am not hurt by other adult women having happy times with their mothers. I am glad someone gets to have that even if it isn't me.

afferal · 12/08/2016 14:11

can't believe how many similar things are running through this thread..it's really sad :(

Luckily mine didn't get to ruin my wedding as she got so drunk on my hen night and totally and utterly humiliated me, even the coach driver on the way home had enough slammed on his brakes and threw her off the coach :/ i still feel sick when I think of that night. As I result I asked her in the nicest way possible if she could refrain from drinking at the actual wedding and she flat out refused. She was so disgusted that I'd even suggested it that she told me where to stick my wedding.

I found out afterwards she'd loaded an auntie up (who she'd originally invited, I wasn't going to) with a bag full of disposable cameras with instructions to fill every single one. She had them all developed and framed loads and had them up in her house telling/showing anyone who'd listen of the wonderful wedding I had that she wasn't invited to!! x

AndTheBandPlayedOn · 12/08/2016 14:15

I wasn't aiming my last comment about other's good fortune at you, InternationalHouse. I have not RTFT (yet).

It used to bother me, but that is like another ping from the toxic one, even from beyond the grave, (see what you'll never have-na na) so I changed the way I look at it.

afferal · 12/08/2016 14:23

International everything was my fault too when her abusive twat started on me. Once he was hitting her and I begged him to stop, he picked up a coffee table and launched it at me throwing me across the room. She said it was my fault I should just keep my f'in mouth shut!

She used to say I will leave him if he ever dares hit you or sexually assault you Confused he hit me so many times and once I asked why haven't you left him he hits me all the time, all she said was "he hasn't raped you get the Fk over it" x

ToxicLadybird · 12/08/2016 14:27

Room for a little one?

I've finally gone NC with my mother 'over Brexit' according to her. She's utterly deluded and totally void of empathy. Brexit was the final straw after a lifetime of emotional and physical neglect. It wasn't even the way she voted, although that's upsetting, it's the fact that she couldn't care less that I'm directly affected by it and therefore upset. Any attempt to express my feelings is met with defensive aggression and a whole lot of manipulative bollocks. I'm done with it.

I've had many threads on here over the years, under different guises, about different shenanigans. Every time everyone told me, on the basis of that one event alone, to walk away and never look back. If I put the whole lot together nobody would believe me. I barely believe it myself. As a child I used to dream about finding out I was adopted or that there'd been a mix up at the hospital or even just that social services would take me away.

20 years of therapy and I'm finally free.

Huldra · 12/08/2016 14:58

I left this morning and am continuing my holiday in peace, curently in a motel until we can get into a holiday park tomorrow. She's not as bad as some on here but it was getting ridiculous. I think we all grew up jumping everytime she started so she's never been challenged. She has hardly uttered a word to me for days. The kids were also desperate to leave so we just got up early and left. Even my youngest who usually adores her was very unhappy.

PinkyofPie · 12/08/2016 15:39

Huldra pleased you've got out and hope you enjoy the rest of your trip Flowers

OP posts:
CancellyMcChequeface · 12/08/2016 15:44

So many similarities! Yes to mothers like this trying to force their taste on their daughters. I've always hated the colour pink but to this day (I'm getting on for 30) if she buys me a gift, it's pink - 'because you're a girl.' She also knows my opinions on adult women being referred to as girls, but caring what I think isn't nearly so important as looking like a good mother who should be able to buy love with presents. I'm also fairly minimalist, and when she visited my home she complained it 'needed a woman's touch.' Because apparently all women like pointless clutter. Just one more way in which I'm inadequate.

Oliversmumsarmy my mother used to say similar creepy suicide-pact things to me, when I was a child and actually believed I couldn't live without her. I used to keep bottles of pills hidden in my drawer, just in case. Aged 11. I'm sorry you went through that too. I don't know about you but I didn't realise just how fucked up it was until I was an adult and couldn't imagine ever saying something like that to any child, let alone my own.

I don't have children of my own yet. I used to think that I couldn't, in case I turned into her, but I'm less afraid of that now.

toomuchtooold · 12/08/2016 16:07

I've finally gone NC with my mother 'over Brexit' according to her.

That reminded me of The Fallacy of Proximal Cigarette-Bumming: how they cite the mildest instance of abuse to stay technically accurate while totally minimising what you've said...

On the crap presents, oh how I feel you. My kids are currently prancing about in some of the jewellery she gave me as a kid - every bloody birthday or Christmas it would be a bit of jewellery, as if this was the time when I was going to turn into the girly paragon she'd ordered up and never got deilvered. She'd be triumphant knowing the girls are wearing it - she'd think she'd proved me wrong, that I'd be pissed off about my kids wearing jewellery. Where in fact of course I couldn't give a stuff what they wear as long as they like it and it's vaguely weather-appropriate. It must be fucking exhausting trying to parent like that, controlling every aspect of your kid's behaviour. It's certainly exhausting as a kid...

Badders123 · 12/08/2016 16:13

Did any of you get the retort "you'll understand when you have children"
When you dared to complain about your treatment?
Well
Guess what?
I have 2 children, and her actions are even more indecipherable to me now than they were then 😞

Badders123 · 12/08/2016 16:14

Huldra
Good for you!
Enjoy it.

ToxicLadybird · 12/08/2016 16:29

That's spot on toomuchtooold. I keep running through imaginary conversations in my head where I explain the reality to her. But I've told her a million times already and it makes no difference. In one ear, out the other. I don't have the energy for it anymore.

Mitfordhons · 12/08/2016 16:35

Do any of you feel your Mums are competitive with you? I've always felt this, but not quite managed to identify it until recently. My therapist has mentioned that it's often the way with girls. The worst thing is that I enter into the competitiveness too, so when my dc's were younger I was a bit in your face about putting them first etc to sort of how her what 'normal' mothers do. How absolutely pointless.

Nonibaloni · 12/08/2016 16:46

I got a clear answer on the parenting question, not to toot my own horn but toot toot.

My son is blind from birth, he's in mainstream school but obviously has difficulties his peers don't. We have been approved for a guide dog, I was shouting it from the rooftops. There's no guarantee you'll be approved but it's was we wanted. I cannot wait to welcome the creature into my home that will be the sight my son lacks. I cried with happiness. I told my mum in a rush of emotion, long long pause "but wouldn't be better if people thought he was normal". Cue a long guilt ridden plea about horror stories of what people will think.
I am a good mother, my sons needs come so far above anyone's opinion, if he needed a guide giraffe I'd be knocking down walls personally to get it in.

I wonder how common these toxic mothers are? Surely an imposed suicide pact with your own child should get you sectioned. Sorry I keep rumbling on, it's all spilling out. Last post I promise.