I think I've ended my marriage and i didnt want too.

[ivemessedup]

my husband is lovely. just lovely. but he has a temper things are generally great atm but there's been the odd moment ive felt we are slipping back into bad habits so i sent him an email saying this. this is something i do occasionally.

he came home last night and isnt really speaking to me. he said he is done caring. hes been trying really hard and cant do anymore. i dont know what will happen now. We have 2 young children and are going on holiday on Saturday. he said there is plenty i do that pisses him off, i dwell on stuff, im self obsessed (both true) and he doesnt care anymore. i should have given him space last night but im crap at this and kept following him around crying saying i loved him. he said i wanted a perfect man so good luck to me finding him.

im so scared it all over.

Odd. He's managed an improvement for 6 months, but didn't go to counselling as promised - and when the op feels things are backsliding and says so, there's a complete shit-fit and drama fest. And we're supposed to think he's doing his best?

But he hasn't stuck to his promise (counselling) and there is a reason the op felt things were deteriorating.

But of course it's the op overreacting.

how is cancellnig a holiday goingto help what about the dc?

someone haveing a strop shojldnt determine everyone else daily lives

If you read my post again Gabs I said to cancel it if that's what OP wants to do. If she's happy to go without him then fine, carry on with the holiday.

But OP should not feel under pressure to try and sort all this out before Saturday as that is likely to make things worse imo. Make a decision on the holiday now then, as I said, the pressure is off.

Go or don't go OP. It's up to you. Not everyone would want to go without their partner and that's ok too. Just do what you feel most comfortable with.

toadgirl - do you mind me asking how old you are? The reason I ask is that I think that sometimes it takes a long time to unlearn the habits we picked up from dysfunctional parental relationships. My mother sounds quite similar to yours: a mixture of volatility and an inability to take responsibility for it (her anger is always someone else's fault, and she absolutely refuses to give any credence to the more modern theory of emotions, that we are all responsible for how we respond). It took me about as long as I spent in her 'care' to realise what was wrong and to change out of that path myself, and it was a lot of work to unsettle those relationships. It wasn't really until my mid 30s that I was able to say I was completely free of the same patterning (am 38 now).

I think sending the email was a bad move. Not many would have taken kindly to that. If you still want him, give him some space. You sound very intense

Do you think it is significant that there is a holiday coming up? Has anything like this happened before when an event of some kind is approaching?

I think the counselling suggestion should be discussed after the holiday. Also presented as a "let the counsellor help us". I think a lot of men believe that they are taken to counselling so that the counsellor can side with the wife and tell them everything they do is wrong. I know, I know, but men tend not to be as verbal (generalising, obviously). I wonder what the ratio is men:women suggesting counselling? I'd say it's usually the woman. Not that I don't think it would be a good idea, but my guess is he's gone off the idea as he feels the counselling would just be more of the same.

Temper manifests in many different ways, it's not always angry shouting door slamming, some sob and cry with temper, some go non verbal (silent treatment) some go hyper verbal with criticism and sarcastic behaviour.

Learning to cope with the triggers and the aftermath is the most important step.

We all get angry, we all let our guard slip and we all errupt from time to time. It happens.

I think you and DP need a sit down chat about this, the DC are probably looking forward to a holiday with mum and dad so tread cearfully on your decisions about this. Once the children are in bet, talk. Offer put an apology for the e-mail ask him to apologise for his post temper behaviour and move on. Work together on this.

toadgirl - do you mind me asking how old you are?

Not at all :) I'm 48.

The reason I ask is that I think that sometimes it takes a long time to unlearn the habits we picked up from dysfunctional parental relationships

Agree 100%. I wish I'd had counselling years ago, but then I didn't realise I had a problem!

My mother sounds quite similar to yours: a mixture of volatility and an inability to take responsibility for it (her anger is always someone else's fault, and she absolutely refuses to give any credence to the more modern theory of emotions, that we are all responsible for how we respond)

Yes, our mothers do sound alike. I used to be scared of her rages when we were kids. She never hurt us physically though, but it was all emotional. One time, she tore the head of one of my teddybears whilst screaming about something or other. I think she was actually angry with my Dad about something rather than something I'd done.

It took me about as long as I spent in her 'care' to realise what was wrong and to change out of that path myself, and it was a lot of work to unsettle those relationships. It wasn't really until my mid 30s that I was able to say I was completely free of the same patterning (am 38 now)

Yes, it took me years to realise my communication style was wrong, especially when upset. I don't have a temper as such but I nag, criticise, go on and on long after the subject should be closed, raise my voice, say things I don't really mean to get a reaction...urgh! I am very good at apologising first though

It's only in my 40s I've felt the difference. My husband and I have had some tough times and most of it has been our rotten communication. We have reached a new level of understanding and I am so glad I didn't give up. There's so much good about us as a couple. On the plus side, my husband is so forgiving, no matter what. He is a rock and has never mentioned leaving or anything. I think that's steadied me and made me feel secure and I've relaxed as a result of that.

I am enjoying this conversation and hope it will be helpful to the OP.

Another thought - all my issues were one of the main reasons I didn't have children. I just thought I'd be a rotten mother, I couldn't trust a man and didn't want to feel trapped in a situation I couldn't cope with. My mum, although always telling us she wanted to be a mother, seemed to have so little joy in bringing us up that I couldn't see why I'd want to do it. She used to tell us and Dad that she'd leave when the youngest was 16 and she was true to her word. So we spent our whole childhood knowing that we had to hurry up and grow up so she could get divorced.

I feel I could maybe do it now, but of course it's far too late. I am not really upset though so maybe not that maternal after all? I just think that in different circumstances, maybe I could have been a happy mum.

To be fair, life wasn't always easy for her either - Dad wasn't perfect.

Mum also was impossible to please. I think Dad gave up somewhat. I could tell you more about that.

She fell out with her family for 12 years so I lost out on that whole side of my family and never met them until her father was dying and she decided she'd start speaking to them after all. I'd grown up by then, so it was never the same.

I could write a book about my family!

Sorry, OP, didn't mean to turn this into my personal therapy session!

*head OFF FFS

My wife has a temper, most of the time she keeps it in check but she has lost it in front of family members before over relatively minor things and they've told her that she needs to calm down. It's never her fault that she's lost her temper, it's usually mine

Anyway that's not the worst thing. In an argument she will follow me everywhere around the house and she will block me from leaving the room, she will keep banging on when as far as I'm concerned I just want her to stop it so I can gather my thoughts. It is incredibly tiring and I can understand the husband's frustration at the OP.

Even when she's done something wrong like calling me a disabled related insult she will follow me around crying when I just want to get out of the same room as her.

thank u. i have just had a lovely text from him. will update later. this thread has really helped me. thank u. xxx

Great news, OP - things are looking up :)

If my DP felt like he couldn't talk to me about problems and instead sent me an email detailing my faults I'd know our relationship was over.

it wasn't an email detailing his faults. it saying i wanted us to talk and said lots of nice things

My point is the lack of actual talking about it. Emailing makes it far more formal in my book.

You sound exhausting, OP. Give the guy a break.

I think he may need a bit of breathing space before you talk. It's been an intense day!

OnionKnight

Has your wife any insight about her behaviour? I am guessing you have tried talking to her when she's calm without success? That must be awful for you, just living like that, with no resolution and your feelings never being heard.

It's different for different couples.

DH and I usually talk pretty well, but there have been times when it's worked better for one of us to email the other to mention something. It's not really more formal, more that we are both writers (DH much more established than I am) and sometimes it is better and easier for both of us to articulate something complicated in writing rather than orally, and also easier to listen to someone for an extended period that way without having to react. Sometimes emotions aren't just black and white and issues are more complicated than who picks up the bog roll from the supermarket. (We do plenty of that kind of communication too, though, it's not like we are constantly writing long love letters to each other!! It's just that sometimes it has been really useful and lovely).

Throughout history, people have communicated in writing this way, though. Look at de Stael circle - they were in the same house, but still sometimes spent hours writing letters to each other! I think email is a modern extension of it.

toadgirl - It's lovely that things are looking up for you and your partner. You sound like you've been on quite a journey. I think having come from a background where the dominant paradigm is one of control, it's very hard to break out of it, relax and let things go. You've done so well to manage it!

Thanks, logosthecat.

What you say about writing is very interesting. I think it can take the heat out of a discussion and if both agree to it, it can really work. I wonder if OP's DH prefers the writing or talking? That's something for them to work out for the future.

Hi toad, her mum and dad although very lovely do have their volatile moments and I think that's where she got it from. It doesn't reach that stage all of the time but when it does nothing stops her and she continuesly blocks me and gets in my face. I have never pushed her back out of the way but it gets some tiring having to sit there or whatever and take it until she calms down.

Very not some.

Yes, exactly toadgirl. It sounds to me as though the problem with the OP's DH is that he doesn't like either talking or writing. So she is a bit stuck if she wants to discuss things! (Apologies if I have got this wrong, OP!)

onion - you sound really patient. I think that people who are going on and on like that are usually terrified of not being 'heard' because that doesn't just mean not being listened to, but actual invalidation as an entire person. I think sometimes the best thing is to make it clear that you do see and hear them. (This is one thing my DH is superb at doing. I literally can't be mad for longer than 20 seconds because I know instantly that he is listening, so all frustration vanishes and it becomes just about solving the issue. In previous relationships my exP just would NOT listen to a word I said, and everything was always a conflict. It was exhausting).