I'm starting to hate men

[Mamaka]

I've noticed recently that I've become more and more anti men - I think since having my first child. So many factors that I could mention and probably many deep rooted issues contributing to this but the long and short of it is why do women have to suffer and sacrifice at every turn?!

I don't really want to feel like this. I have a son who I want to bring up/am bringing up to be a feminist but I'm worried about how my hateful feelings towards men are going to rub off on my dc.

I suppose I am asking if there is a way I can combat these feelings and start to feel more positively towards them.

Women are right to be wary of men. If we're going to be murdered, raped, beaten up or abused, the perpetrator will most likely be male

Isn't this a factual statement ? Im amazed that it's controversial

Women are right to be wary of men

This is probably one of the most sickening threads I have ever read on MN, I have been here years but this has really struck a chord deep in me.

I was sexually abused as a child by a man (I am a woman btw) but the most hurtful, aggressive, selfish, spiteful, entitled and abusive people I have met throughout my life have actually been women.

My scars from being abused as a child are not forgotten about but completely overshadowed by the abuse I have suffered from women over the years.

I am much more wary of Women than I am of Men.

I am pretty sure the op is now sat back with her 3 threads running having a good old laugh at the hate she has caused on here.

Dilberry I completely understand what you have been saying, there is no logic to this thread at all, only hatred.

VoyageOfDad I would be very wary of Someone being stung by bees constantly also.

I don't think Dilberry has derailed the thread at all, In fact I have been watching this all day and I'm pretty impressed with her determination, This would not stand on MN if it was against black people, disabled people, white people, WOMEN! so why the hell should it stand against men?

If it was any other scenario this thread would have been deleted days ago but as it is Men hating then it will stand.

For Parents by Parents? Bullshit!

There is so much sexism on here it is fucking unreal.

Exactly, fuchs. If I said that I was statistically more likely to be attacked by a black person, people would be frothing at the mouth if I used that to infer that I couldn't trust black people.

And thank you.

And I haven't shouted down women. I am a woman. This isn't some universal idea that we all subscribe to. If this is feminism, it's shit.

I know that the majority of men are not violent. Unfortunately the bad guys and the good guys look alike to I have to be wary of them all .

this explains it better

kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-schrodinger%E2%80%99s-rapist-or-a-guy%E2%80%99s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/

If a Man came on here saying 'I'm starting to hate Women' then says he has a wife and a daughter, He would be told to get a grip and get some counselling, He would be told to do his wife and daughter a favour and leave.

If he said he also has a son and disciplines him differently to his daughter he would be ripped to shreds.

This is everything that the op has said but with the roles reversed, Can anyone tell me why this is acceptable because it is a Woman shouting sexist shit instead of a man?

'Some feminists , as I understand it, believe male violence ( as one example ) is a product of the way males are socialized .

So as all males share broadly the same socialization, we are all equally capable / culpable of violence, and equally prepared to exhibit violent behaviour. Or whatever negative aspect is under discussion.

So to say 'well actually most men aren't like that' , is a direct challenge to their beliefs, because if it's all down to socialization then all men have to be like that.'

That's a really good theory.

I think some of the people on this thread who seem to have such terrible relationships with men need to bear in mind this old saying;

"If you smell shit everywhere you go, check your own shoe."

Really? That seems somewhat obviously a contributory factor, if not the whole story.

The battle lines are very firmly drawn aren't they? Suggesting that men might not be the enemy is verboten! I don't like it also because it devalues the sense of women as autonomous creatures also; it's like we can't choose to be bad too. We have to play these angelic victims. Never the abuser. Never at fault.

I'm sorry, I was trying to stay away from this thread because it was so misunderstood, but then I saw that Dilberry thinks the whole story behind DV is socio-economic factors and alcohol and not male socialisation, and Voyageofdad agrees.

I may not be the most articulate or intellectual of people and the way I post is often misconstrued but that is just utter fucking bullshit. And yes I have been a victim of DV and no socio-economic factors and alcohol were not involved.

I specifically said that it was PARTLY a factor. I too have been a victim of domestic violence in which neither of those factors played a part. Don't just stick the word wholly in there to excuse another argument.

You stuck the word whole in.

That seems somewhat obviously a contributory factor, if not the whole story.

I think that sentence can be read 2 different ways. I too (mistakenly) read it as Mamaka did.

I can't see any useful purpose in another topic being debated on this thread though!

Mamaka I just wanted to say that I don't think there is a problem with your articulation of the issue. Plenty of posters understood just fine.

It's a shame the thread went as it did because I could have posted similar and thought about it before but wasn't brave enough. I genuinely found the early responses interesting.

Ditto Mamaka. DV survivor here. Ex had a good job and never drank.

Alcohol merely exaggerates existing traits, making an existing arsehole a bigger arsehole, not creating one out of an otherwise good chap. And any DV statistics clearly show that DV is indiscriminate and socioeconomic factors are irrelevant. No wonder you had your arse handed to you, Voyage. This stuff is well known and well researched.

You two are making a good tag team aren't you, with your faux innocent outrage. Doesn't matter how many ways pp explain that they don't hate men, just arseholes, you cling to your party line.

Giving feminism a bad name. I suspect it's because they don't waste time with people who are hard of thinking, so those people who get hung up on 'these feminists hate all men', despite the overwhelming evidence to the opposite, get all upset over being dismissed and then go badmouthing feminists.

I think you are defensive and over-invested in the status quo, which reveres the 'specialness' of men. I don't, so we will never see eye to eye.

That said, you are derailing the thread. You've said your point, repeatedly. Personally, I'd like it if you just went away now, but unfortunately I'm not the thread police.

And that theory, that as all men are socialised towards violence, all men equally are capable/culpable of violence? What total tosh.

I used to teach physics. Were all my students equally able to understand my lessons? Why didn't they all get the same grade?? Oh, they're different people!!

Which brings us straight back to NAMALT. Which you seem to be arguing for, despite the fact that every poster on here has said Not All Men.

I think there are some lovely, decent men out there (my brothers are two of them) but there are A LOT of a holes. I've had some good and bad experiences and actively have chosen to stay away for the foreseeable, simply so I can eat crisps in bed without anyone complaining of crumbs and fall asleep at 19:00

I'm with you lolo, I can't imagine ever sharing my life with a man again, never mind the foreseeable future. I'm not bothered by that. But I would have found it helpful to read what to do with the negative feelings in general.

I think half my post was picked up on and repeated by one of those having their own other debate. Conveniently without the bit saying I was shocked by my feelings and didn't want my son's to be negatively impacted.

Mamaka, between your threads here and in feminist chat id be interested to.know if you have come away with anything helpful. Got to admit, I stopped reading here.

Myownperson - yes I have come away with a few helpful things: establishing my own boundaries, lines not to be crossed etc, then disengaging/withdrawing when they are crossed; not giving my energy to situations and people (men) where it's not reciprocal; educating myself about feminism and equality and making my own world as equal as possible; treating my dc as whole people rather than focusing on their gender (this sounds silly but it was put much better by the person who posted it), pointing out sexism and entitlement when it presents rather than suffering silently. I will have another read back and find some more.

These points may seem very obvious to others but for me, having grown up in a sexist environment with DV - my family of origin quite literally being a patriarchy - these points have been extremely helpful reminders of what is acceptable and what isn't.

Thanks very much for that. Yes, quite a lot of useful things to think about.