Epic story of being a crap husband. *very long*

[gshavik]

Not sure what/where or particularly how to start but basically this...

Wife just buggered off with the children to her parents on Saturday. Piled them into the car and left with no goodbye, just 'you need to grow the fuck up'. Hasn't returned yet, no indications when that might happen presently.

Good start?

To expand, we're at a bit of impasse. I'm actually not even sure why but for once my conscience is totally clear and I'm pretty certain that I'm not being unreasonable. Consider this.

I have my own small business, which is in a difficult place just now as it doesn't yet run on its own without me (...work in progress), and our industry is in particularly challenging times. I used to work all the hours God sends (6am - 8pm was typical - sometimes longer - before our first child). That said it more than pays our bills and I've scaled back the work mainly to 9-6 these days in order to be at home more (her demands but I wanted to improve work/life balance too). Throw in the commute and that's about 8:30 - 6:30. Weekends are now virtually all ours.

She decided just before DC1 that she wanted to be a SAHM, which was fine with me but it meant all income now rests on my shoulders. OK - not a major problem but places a bit more stress on my abilities to provide for everything, replacing her salary. I don't mind that and I'm fortunate that I'm in a position where that was possible (at a push, but possible nonetheless).

A few years later and DC3 has been on the scene for some 10 months now and it's obviously a bit busy looking after the three children each day almost every day. I'm under no illusion as to how much of a handful they are (DC1 is about 3.5 YO just now) - but I help out with them as much as I can in the mornings, evenings and at the weekends. On one weekend day, she gets a lie-in, and the other day I get one. In theory. In practice my lie-in consists of having either DC2 or DC3 dumped on me in bed around 6:30 for maybe an hour or so (which I don't resent but it's supposed to be a lie-in...). Thereafter she makes a LOT of noise screaming and yelling at them for this or that, not to mention basically stomping around the house - hardly light underfoot - in a rather chaotic manner. Basically I don't really get the lie-in or sleep and I'm generally up and dressed by about 8:30-9ish because there is no chance of getting sleep. By comparison when she has her lie-in I try as far as possible to have them all contained in the sitting room with their breakfasts and nappy changes all done with fairly minimal fuss, keeping them all playing about and capering happily with basically no need for all the shouting that goes on when she is with them. Basically, it's doable with little to no chaos barring the odd unexpected mishap. These has been the pattern for months now. I'm not saying that I'm better at it - I really don't think that - but as I'll explain more later I'm growing more and more concerned that it's intentional, with a view to teaching me something.

So, our house, as you might imagine with three young children is prone to breakages. Wear and tear on most things would be high anyway I should imagine, and the replacement rate of stuff broken or worn out is ridiculous. Some of it is fair enough, I repaired our washing machine three times as after a few years of being overloaded or having stuff trapped in the door before starting the cycle took its toll. NBD - I'm pretty handy and replaced that. It had taken a few weeks of sizing up the possible options/performance/price and I got one at a bank-holiday sale to keep costs down. Hotpoint 8kg load, 1600rpm spin, 14 minute quick cycle. Great.
Same with the tumble drier - two days when it failed for the last time meant a ridiculous back log of washing that took about two weeks to clear up when the weather was bad over the winter there. Again, NBD, I found another one with 8kg load and had that installed one morning before heading into work. BTW; our electric bill over the winter quarter came to ~£1600. Yeah, that's right. Paid that.

I'm told we need a dishwasher now. OK, but we have a pretty small kitchen and fitting that isn't quite as straightforward as just replacing one. One 600mm cupboard has to be given up (there is already a lack of space) and the carcass hacked up a bit to accommodate. Plumbing, again NBD, but the real issue is the electrics - there is no socket in the back there. In fact, as it transpires (my friend is an electrician, and I know my way around electrics too), the electrics in the kitchen were previously bodged by another owner and the circuit run to the kitchen appears to be using the incorrectly sized cables - we'd discovered this sometime before the dishwasher raised its head. OK, now we have a problem and a potential fire risk if more consumers are added to the circuit, basically the old wiring needs to be replaced with a proper ring circuit, not sure to how many sockets off the top of my head but let’s say it'll take two people about a day to replace and re-wire. Suddenly fitting a dishwasher becomes a whole lot more involved. Enough detail?
So, I explained that this isn't going to be quick job and will need a good deal more than she imagined in order to realise the vision of zero-hassle dishwashing (ha). Not to be disheartened she got her father to give a second opinion whilst I was at work (I should say he means well but is a bit of a bodger with no particular electrical knowledge) - he glanced at the plumbing and the cupboard and stated he didn't see a particular problem. I got accused of being a liar - that was months ago. I am still, apparently, a liar.

A week ago, on a whim she decided that we now need a bigger whirly washing line. I feigned ignorance to the problem (seeing where the conversation was headed and already thinking what now...?), but apparently she wants to be able to get 3 full loads of washing done in ~45 minutes but the line isn't big enough to take that. Putting the physical problems of digging out the big concrete lump buried in the garden aside for a moment, how on earth can we generate 24kgs of washing that suddenly needs doing? Ok - nice weather, maybe get some bedding done, but SRSLY? I wouldn't argue that our existing whirly is a bit crap - 3 arms, not very big. However I've managed two good size loads onto it by thinking about the order stuff gets hung. I think the key concept being missed is staggering or planning or just generally 'keeping on top of it' - maybe easier said than done but still...

A couple months back, her car (a small MPV) got written off in a no-fault accident. Insurance pay out was ok but far from what was needed for a newer car. She wanted a 7-seater. It had to be a seven-seater. OK, so a Zafira it was then. A 13-plate Zafira, about 10k on the clock, superb condition. Good boot space for the buggies and shopping etc. Very practical. I spent weeks weighing up the pros and cons of these fire-prone cars, eventually finding one that was within a sensible price-range that already had the recall work done. It's never held 7 people in it. I doubt it ever will, but it absolutely had to be a 7-seater - her friend has one. Meanwhile, I bought it outright, had to take another hit to the wallet - to be fair I'd rather do that than get it on-tick. I don't grudge getting the car. I do grudge that she wouldn't drive me to the train station to go to collect it, and I grudge that she instead called her parents through from about 80 miles away for the sole purpose of driving me 12 miles to the train station. Frankly, I was a bit embarrassed about that. Clearly it was totally unreasonable of me to expect her to help me help her. I didn't get any thanks for the car until I mentioned the lack-thereof about a week later.

So what's the problem? Apparently none of that.

LMAO

I don't understand why you're complaining, there are always a couple of big plasters in the Thomas packs.

I tend to agree more with iknow I am afraid than wellerrr.

Not all men are bastards and not all women are saints. Some women are total princesses. Mostly most people are ok somtimes and arseholes sometimes.

OP hasn't said he's out all wknd cycling or playing golf or that he wants to come home to a spotless house. He's saying that given it takes time to earn money to replace things that cost money and it takes time to fix things that are broken and both he and his dw would rather the time was spent with the dcs he gets frustrated if he is told to fix something and then told he is too busy. I am guessing dw both wants to shower with window shut and to have a mould free bathroom.

Can't have it all ways. You cannot be a SAHP and complain if your partner works. Likewise as a working parent you have to realise being at home is hard work (but then again it is her choice, she could choose not to).

It is fair enough to tell OP to stop sweating the little stuff as long as he isn't getting told to sort out the problems and then getting told off when he does (although seriously the drive needs to be let go....it can be retarmacked later).

He could be lying through his teeth. Then again maybe she does ignore him then complain when he is busy.

As for MN being anyone's safe space. Really? MN? These days?

RicketyTickety - I'm coming round to that idea, reluctantly, but not dismissing out of hand as something only for problem marriages - as little as two years ago I would never have thought it would have to this or that.

Myusernameismyusername - A: Comms seemed to diminish over time, really since DC2 came around it was all we could do to cope with the additional turmoil. DC3 came along and most of our 'family' time was/is tending to them. Sometimes it works pretty well and efficiently as a tag-team effort, sometimes not and we end up working against each other.
B: You're right that the state of house shouldn't come before our family, but where condensation is dripping from the roofing felt in the loft space and I can reasonably foresee mahooosive roofing bills in the future, I'd rather take action to prevent than cure. That's where we stumble and where I must come across as materialistic about the house. It's just four walls and roof, and it's only a house without us. It should be a home.

C: It's not teaching anything good. DC1 said to me one morning in an innocent voice 'Daddy, why are you using loud words with mummy?' after a particularly vicious argument we had for reasons I can't remember that I'm sure were just as trivial as all those thorns under my skin in my rant.
That made me feel like a piece of shit - that we are becoming one of those things I wish our children would never have to experience. There we go, that's a feeling. I knew I had one in me.

NeedsAsocktomy - Again you have some great points there. A bit I still can't quite get my head around in conveying (or rather failing to convey) is where in the cold light of day:
She decides to be SAHM with my support. Income from her side stops after maternity pay ended for DC1. Takes career break professionally.
Income over a short period of time is more than replaced by income from the business, where she doesn't really have to get involved too much, very hands off.
In return, I'm very hands off with the house choices - decor, decisions about garden toys, decking, fencing, external wall insulation etc all her driving forward, sometimes grudgingly sometimes enthusiastically on my side (depending how ridiculous or otherwise).
I do the bidding for the vast majority of the DIY and repairs (don't mind too much, I enjoy it up to a point but really would rather have feet up and play with the kids of a weekend)
Having come from no-money background to a just about enough to get by money present, I try to keep things serviceable as far as possible. Look after things (the relationship is where I'm failing on that point).
Maybe I'm just better at practical interactions with things rather than people.

And we're not in England, and actually when we took the house all the walls in the shaded area were black with it and most of the ground was green. Took a lot of powerwashing to get it presentable. I'm really not the houseproud OCD type, but where I've had to do the job before I'd just as soon avoid it if precautions can be taken. But anyway I'll stop with the moss, I appreciate it's probably me blowing the sense of proportion of it's importance way off the chart when taken with all the other gripes. So no more moss.

I find this thread quite chilling actually.

BoreOfWhabylon - I'm not a member of pistonheads. They have a used car section, but even if I was, why should that be any particular issue?

Yes parenting is hard but I don't get why people are making out she's a 'hero'

This.

I'd understand it if he was one of the typical "she's sitting on her arse all day watching Jeremy Kyle is it too much to ask..." brigade but it sounds like she is the one doing a lot of the asking. Although as IP himself admits it is only one side.

If you want the other side OP, try the counselling.

DH went a bit peculiar last time we moved. One particular thing that I used daily didn't work properly for me. DH used it maybe once a fortnight and it seemed to work better for him. I said I thought it wasn't working properly but he chose to believe it was me doing it wrong and told me it didn't need fixing.
Every time I used it and it didn't work I got cumulatively more angry about it.

Every time she sees a pile of washing up, hangs washing out, spills a drink, loads the inconvenient sounding tumble dryer or wrangles 3 small children for the sixth day on the trot like some groundhog day, she gets more and more angry. A bit of physical contact after being mauled all day is the last thing she wants. A chat with someone who can empathise and listen to grumbles is great. I'll bet any conversation with you about how hard things are results in you either trying to fix it (aka telling her how to do things better,) or telling her how hard you work.

I really, really tried. But I gave up around the part where your wife suggested counselling but you felt it was "nonsense" and that she would "come around." That's not how it works, not even close. But I do appreciate knowing the exact specs of your washing machine.

That last post is starting to dig down into the root of it. It's easier to get obsessed with details...saves looking at the really painful stuff.

She did just leave him, he's not happier.

iknowniffink and it sounds like it had bugger all to do with wahhhhh I want the latest phone

Is chilling the new MN word?

Seem to be seeing it everywhere lately.

Look I actually see you taking stock, this is good.

Hold on to C. It's way more important than most other things. You need to sort this out for the children's sake.
You can totally reach a point where she can appreciate real structural issues that need attention if you do it in the right way, at the right time. Once you start communicating again.

It sounds like your house is kind of a project and for both of you come on, it must be tough for her too to try living in it if it smells of dog and is damp and actually maybe not very homely. And you are trying to make it homely but the price to pay is family time. That's why you need to learn to communicate to get this balance. She would appreciate more possibly if you could get your teamwork back.

What people are trying to say is that yes it's your home, but surely without your family in it its just a house?
So there are things that might have to be put on a long term project outlook rather than doing it all at once.

I think your biggest crime is trying to do it all at once.
You have an increasing, very young family and you just can't have it all. Something has to give and right now, your wife has cracked up for whatever reason.
Don't stop caring about the house, just put some of these on the back burner for when things are easier between both of you.

Haudyerwheesht
"I find this thread quite chilling actually."

Me too. For a whole host of reasons.

gshavik
"(depending how ridiculous or otherwise)."

It isn't ridiculous when your wife needs or wants something that you don't understand. Stop being so rude and belittling.

I am in the process of separating from my partner and I am spending a lot of time taking a long, cold, hard look at what matters and what doesn't, and what should or could have happened differently.

One of the things that I can see really clearly, now that it is all over, is that he always spoke to me and about me (and other women) in a belittling and patronising way,. And when this was in a context of small trivial things, it was easy to ignore.

When it was in a context of me trashing my body and knackering my spirit relentlessly holding up our small children, as if I was using my last remaining body strength to hold them up above lapping waves while my nostrils were tantalisingly only occasionally above water - then it rankled.

I asked him to stop, and he told me that I was bitter, and there was something wrong with me and I had no sense of humour.

I know now - not because of you, I just know now - that there is no way that he can ever begin to respect me, because he just can't manage to align his perspective to a world in which I am worthy of respect. He didn't enter into this whole thing to be lumbered with being expected to respect women, don't be silly. It's an outrage. He's infuriated with the suggestion.

At times I think: what if I managed to explain....? and then I see things like this and I think, ah fuck it

You have three children and the oldest is 3.5!! Think this might be the root of the issue. You must both be exhausted! (And even if your wife does the vast majority of childcare, it's still totally exhausting to be running your own business).
Good luck, hope you sort things out. I would also suggest counselling of some sort. Sounds like you both just have a tough life right now and you both need to try and understand each other's point of view more. Not easy when you feel tired all the time.

I'm with you Haudyerweesht.

What do you want OP? You seem to have an answer for everything and it's all your wife's fault. Leave her then. You clearly have no desire to change the contempt and condescending nature of your attitude to her. Every single post has some dig at her from her "ridiculous" choices to talking to your family and friends about you (maybe she was just trying to understand you - there's a thought you might like to refute...again). You hardly even mention your children. Certainly not in any kind of positive light (mind you I didn't read most of the 2nd post). It's like they aren't even a factor (although I'm sure you'll have some smart answer for that which will put the blame at your wife's feet).

She did just leave him, he's not happier.

Tbh I can't see anywhere where he's expressed any unhappiness about her leaving its all been about the washing machines and diet coke.

She isn't having a good time. She doesn't think this is ideal. She just doesn't have a choice, because this is what it is like for her now, that she hangs on, and if you moan at her and dick about in the garage rather than support her, you are just working the worst part of her life worse and aren't giving her any capability to behave more strategically, or whatever the fuck you want.

When she comes out of this, she will either have the energy to share the good times with you, or get the hell away from you.

MazzleDazzle - It hasn't felt like 'we' for a long time. Therein lies a big part of our issues.

Nousernames - I didn't expect anything less (or more) from here tbh, some good advice from some, some hate from others, and it's actually good to have some all sides. I think my wife would say communication is the problem (and actually where much of my rant frustration is coming from) - I don't know, I wasn't really listening

Not princess behaviour but did she ever feel overwhelmed by 2? then I'd question why she had a third child. Yes parenting is hard but I don't get why people are making out she's a 'hero' (as one PP called her) just because she has 3 kids - she chose to have them I assume

It's incredibly hard to foresee the difference throwing another child into the mix can make, the op presumably had just as much input into the decision as well and he didn't forsee this, I'm pretty sure I would never use the word hero (then again another poster also used the word Saint about the op) but if everybody small is being looked after well and nobodies being harmed neglected or otherwise abused in anyway then there is no real despite in saying she is doing a good job and she's making just as valid a contribution towards the family as the op is.

The main difference is the op gets to come home and do all the DIY and practical fixing type stuff that he enjoys (and lots of people actively treat as a hobby) and she gets to carry on doing more of the same as she's been doing whilst he is at work.

op do you really believe that playing and occupying the kids is much the same as putting your feet up and having a little play?

Her catchphrase (from yourself) seems to be 'but you could have played with the children'.

Read this as, 'please spend time with the children as I never get a second to myself and an hour's lie in once a week just doesn't do it for me'. YOU chose to do the floor, whinge about moss, moan about Diet Coke. She isn't in your bed as she's bed hopping so basically apart from her 'lie in' she is with them alone 24/7. YOU research on and on about washing machines and tumble dryers. Listen to what she says.

Feeling sorry for yourself really won't help you it isn't very productive or good for resolving issues.

It's ok to have feelings. That's not what I am saying.

It kind of does sound like you don't really like her very much anymore.
I didn't feel my ex-DP brought out the best side of me once we had kids and I for sure didn't bring out his best side either. We are much better off apart.
Depends what you actually want? Do you want to be a father or want to be a husband? You don't have to be both.

Are you trying for another baby with your wife, OP? Have you stopped using protection. This sounds familiar.

I was going to post something here, OP, then I saw your 'man haters' joke.

What a stupid, horrible thing to come up with, towards people who are reading about you and your family's lives and maybe thinking about trying to help.

SmallLegsOrSmallEggs - She has talked about going back to work job-sharing maybe a couple days a week to begin with, professionally I think that is what she needs as she has said herself that she went from being 'Insert Christian Name' here the amazing professional to 'DC1, DC2, DC3's mummy' - quickly followed by 'Gosh you must be busy'.

She probably deeply resents that I get to still be a professional whilst she is wiping noses or arses or spilling Diet Coke all over the place, much in the same way I'd rather play with the children than deal with accounts, or customers, or otherwise fixing things or busting my balls dealing with people (patently not my strong card as evident here).

But, from an income point of view it then becomes a bit of problem again; impacting both of our incomes from the business in ways I still can't fully get my head around (it's complicated) despite the help of an accountant. Net result would be as back-of-the-envelope calculations maybe just about covering childcare costs from part-time teaching, but then losing out overall with the possible impact from her directors allowances/tax. Like I said, not a straightforward approach financially especially with the new tax rules from the last budget, but on balance the state-of-mind improvement might be considerably greater.

TL;DR I think she would love to work again in some capacity.

GettingIntoTheSpirit - With the 8kg tumble drier I just foresaw overloading and subsequent destruction. I really did. That's just how I'm wired.