Epic story of being a crap husband. *very long*

[gshavik]

Not sure what/where or particularly how to start but basically this...

Wife just buggered off with the children to her parents on Saturday. Piled them into the car and left with no goodbye, just 'you need to grow the fuck up'. Hasn't returned yet, no indications when that might happen presently.

Good start?

To expand, we're at a bit of impasse. I'm actually not even sure why but for once my conscience is totally clear and I'm pretty certain that I'm not being unreasonable. Consider this.

I have my own small business, which is in a difficult place just now as it doesn't yet run on its own without me (...work in progress), and our industry is in particularly challenging times. I used to work all the hours God sends (6am - 8pm was typical - sometimes longer - before our first child). That said it more than pays our bills and I've scaled back the work mainly to 9-6 these days in order to be at home more (her demands but I wanted to improve work/life balance too). Throw in the commute and that's about 8:30 - 6:30. Weekends are now virtually all ours.

She decided just before DC1 that she wanted to be a SAHM, which was fine with me but it meant all income now rests on my shoulders. OK - not a major problem but places a bit more stress on my abilities to provide for everything, replacing her salary. I don't mind that and I'm fortunate that I'm in a position where that was possible (at a push, but possible nonetheless).

A few years later and DC3 has been on the scene for some 10 months now and it's obviously a bit busy looking after the three children each day almost every day. I'm under no illusion as to how much of a handful they are (DC1 is about 3.5 YO just now) - but I help out with them as much as I can in the mornings, evenings and at the weekends. On one weekend day, she gets a lie-in, and the other day I get one. In theory. In practice my lie-in consists of having either DC2 or DC3 dumped on me in bed around 6:30 for maybe an hour or so (which I don't resent but it's supposed to be a lie-in...). Thereafter she makes a LOT of noise screaming and yelling at them for this or that, not to mention basically stomping around the house - hardly light underfoot - in a rather chaotic manner. Basically I don't really get the lie-in or sleep and I'm generally up and dressed by about 8:30-9ish because there is no chance of getting sleep. By comparison when she has her lie-in I try as far as possible to have them all contained in the sitting room with their breakfasts and nappy changes all done with fairly minimal fuss, keeping them all playing about and capering happily with basically no need for all the shouting that goes on when she is with them. Basically, it's doable with little to no chaos barring the odd unexpected mishap. These has been the pattern for months now. I'm not saying that I'm better at it - I really don't think that - but as I'll explain more later I'm growing more and more concerned that it's intentional, with a view to teaching me something.

So, our house, as you might imagine with three young children is prone to breakages. Wear and tear on most things would be high anyway I should imagine, and the replacement rate of stuff broken or worn out is ridiculous. Some of it is fair enough, I repaired our washing machine three times as after a few years of being overloaded or having stuff trapped in the door before starting the cycle took its toll. NBD - I'm pretty handy and replaced that. It had taken a few weeks of sizing up the possible options/performance/price and I got one at a bank-holiday sale to keep costs down. Hotpoint 8kg load, 1600rpm spin, 14 minute quick cycle. Great.
Same with the tumble drier - two days when it failed for the last time meant a ridiculous back log of washing that took about two weeks to clear up when the weather was bad over the winter there. Again, NBD, I found another one with 8kg load and had that installed one morning before heading into work. BTW; our electric bill over the winter quarter came to ~£1600. Yeah, that's right. Paid that.

I'm told we need a dishwasher now. OK, but we have a pretty small kitchen and fitting that isn't quite as straightforward as just replacing one. One 600mm cupboard has to be given up (there is already a lack of space) and the carcass hacked up a bit to accommodate. Plumbing, again NBD, but the real issue is the electrics - there is no socket in the back there. In fact, as it transpires (my friend is an electrician, and I know my way around electrics too), the electrics in the kitchen were previously bodged by another owner and the circuit run to the kitchen appears to be using the incorrectly sized cables - we'd discovered this sometime before the dishwasher raised its head. OK, now we have a problem and a potential fire risk if more consumers are added to the circuit, basically the old wiring needs to be replaced with a proper ring circuit, not sure to how many sockets off the top of my head but let’s say it'll take two people about a day to replace and re-wire. Suddenly fitting a dishwasher becomes a whole lot more involved. Enough detail?
So, I explained that this isn't going to be quick job and will need a good deal more than she imagined in order to realise the vision of zero-hassle dishwashing (ha). Not to be disheartened she got her father to give a second opinion whilst I was at work (I should say he means well but is a bit of a bodger with no particular electrical knowledge) - he glanced at the plumbing and the cupboard and stated he didn't see a particular problem. I got accused of being a liar - that was months ago. I am still, apparently, a liar.

A week ago, on a whim she decided that we now need a bigger whirly washing line. I feigned ignorance to the problem (seeing where the conversation was headed and already thinking what now...?), but apparently she wants to be able to get 3 full loads of washing done in ~45 minutes but the line isn't big enough to take that. Putting the physical problems of digging out the big concrete lump buried in the garden aside for a moment, how on earth can we generate 24kgs of washing that suddenly needs doing? Ok - nice weather, maybe get some bedding done, but SRSLY? I wouldn't argue that our existing whirly is a bit crap - 3 arms, not very big. However I've managed two good size loads onto it by thinking about the order stuff gets hung. I think the key concept being missed is staggering or planning or just generally 'keeping on top of it' - maybe easier said than done but still...

A couple months back, her car (a small MPV) got written off in a no-fault accident. Insurance pay out was ok but far from what was needed for a newer car. She wanted a 7-seater. It had to be a seven-seater. OK, so a Zafira it was then. A 13-plate Zafira, about 10k on the clock, superb condition. Good boot space for the buggies and shopping etc. Very practical. I spent weeks weighing up the pros and cons of these fire-prone cars, eventually finding one that was within a sensible price-range that already had the recall work done. It's never held 7 people in it. I doubt it ever will, but it absolutely had to be a 7-seater - her friend has one. Meanwhile, I bought it outright, had to take another hit to the wallet - to be fair I'd rather do that than get it on-tick. I don't grudge getting the car. I do grudge that she wouldn't drive me to the train station to go to collect it, and I grudge that she instead called her parents through from about 80 miles away for the sole purpose of driving me 12 miles to the train station. Frankly, I was a bit embarrassed about that. Clearly it was totally unreasonable of me to expect her to help me help her. I didn't get any thanks for the car until I mentioned the lack-thereof about a week later.

So what's the problem? Apparently none of that.

NeedsASoctomy - Yes a quick cycle has drawbacks; 1000rpm spin so longer to dry etc etc, lightly soiled clothes etc. In the couple of months it's been installed probably 95% of the washes are 'quick'. For the rain-water - we can't do anything about that contribution to the problem, we could avoid making it worse than it need be. Maybe it's too much emphasis that, in the grand scheme of things really shouldn't be of any consequence. I just don't get continuing with a course of action that clearly makes the problems bigger (my own approach to this is obviously included in that) - but going back to the bigger picture in all of this, am I unreasonable to expect that some degree of care be taken with our stuff? Or is it acceptable to just carry on regardless.

EarthBoundMisfit - Short but sweet perspective, thank you. I'm sure this energy could have been put to better use overall, but without the large family and friends network my wife has I have limited opportunity to vent/release/rant call it what you will to invite opinion.

Zaurak - That's hitting the nail on the head. I'm a logical person and she's very emotional. Like the women from Venus/Men from Mars thing; I know I have a fundamentally different approach to life to that of a female - I look at everything (rightly or wrongly) as problems to be dealt with. Funnily enough, that was the attraction when got together. I spend far too long trying to make the right choice when sometimes (not always) the quicker wrong choice would be good enough.

I can see the raw irritation and hurt in your posts. It comes across as petty and patronising, but we've all been at that place where the little stuff adds up and up to the point where it all becomes too much.

Some of the stuff, you do need to let go of. Sure she isn't the best at seeing that taking care of stuff means not having to replace it. But metal stuff on Teflon pans - not a big deal. Moss on the driveway? Throw down some moss killer and invest in a better door mat. Better still, get a conversion kit and install a drain for the condenser drier.

I can see you think you are trying your best and you do sound like you make an effort to balance work and family, but the problem seems to be what you see as family and what she actually needs as family is totally different. It seems to me communication is the key. The things you do might be fabulous for some - but clearly you are not on the same page as her as to what needs to be done during family time. I'll be honest, if cabinets in the garage took precedence over dishwasher in kitchen, I'd be pissed off too. One of my bug bears is, if something techy or "man" needs done, it's done immediately. If it's something I've asked for, that seems to take much longer (8 months for a hook in the shower)

Your wife suggested counselling, you should have gone. That was her saying she felt there was a problem and she didn't know how to deal with it. You decided it was ridiculous - that was a big mistake. You are not a "crap husband". You just have assumed what you are doing is any real benefit to her. You knock your pan in doing all this stuff, but have you actually asked her what she wants done? You want to please her and keep her happy, but have you actually discussed what that is. In your post you talk about all the things you do and have done, but three examples of something she has actually asked for, you haven't done for her.

Talk to her, and be open to actually listening to what she wants. Don't start with the " but I do all this...." because she doesn't feel that actually is of any value to her. Most of what you speak of appears to be about maintaining the house. You need to spend more time maintaining your relationship and that has to start with talking. And lots of it.

Show her the spread sheets. ask if she can magic up extra funds.
A common misconception that running you own business = loads of spare cash.

I'm sorry OP but I have to confess to having a good little giggle when I read this. I see a lot of me and my husband in it. The thing being, is you really have to accept you cannot change people, no matter how much their actions piss you off! In the 8 years my husband and I have been together, I have told him hundreds of times not to leave food in the sink or things in "soak". I refer to it as a festering pool of bacteria. My husband tells me at least 3 times a week not to "collect" cups in the bedroom. I can accumulate a good 4 cups a day in there and sometimes they have not been left empty and do start to look pretty horrid before he brings them downstairs and puts them in the dishwasher.

My point being, is that this annoys both of us, and we will have words about this occasionally - but mostly it doesn't get commented on.

Your wife wants a dishwasher - personally, I would be angry without one when looking after 3 young children. I found it hard enough to keep on top of the house while on maternity leave with a 5 year old (in school all day) and a 5 month old, and I have a large dishwasher. It is exhausting and non-stop. You may feel your wife is being lazy to leave the washing to pile up, but some days you have more time to do the washing than others. There are some days that you would rather scrub every window than do another wash load and then have to fold it all and put it away. It can be soul destroying.

I am sure you are trying your best but it seems so is your wife. She is exhausted and perhaps feels that you don't take her seriously (with you taking so long to decide everything). I think you should take up the counselling offer, you two need to start communicating and doing it via her discovering this thread on mumsnet, is not the best way to do that.

I'm afraid I think you are lucky she just went to her parents' house. I'd have buried you under the bloody flooring. If you were lucky I'd have killed you first.

Once the children are in bed, how much time do you spend making your wife feel valued and loved? Do you do anything for her that doesn't relate to household drudgery? Does she feel that you appreciate how hard her life is? I think these areas are likely to be the real problem. It is possible to survive having small children close together in age without losing your sanity, but it's so much more difficult if you don't feel part of a team.

To answer your question about whether it is reasonable to look after stuff:

Yes it is reasonable for things that are expensive, that can't be replaced. Like a child or a diamond ring, or even car for instance even.
That's called invaluable or you know, very expensive.

When it is unreasonable: Moss on a driveway can be cleaned off. She doesn't care about this because it is petty. She is trying to keep the children alive and in clean clothes. She might even do it to annoy you more now.

You have different expectations and values. So what's important to you to be cared for isn't important to her

I think the main thing to say here is

THREE UNDER FOUR?!!!

SAHM with THREE UNDER FOUR...

And the rest - and this is an INSTRUCTION to you, gshavik, is:

"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."

You want to be appreciated and understood.
So does she.
You write as though you feel superior to her, that she 'owes' you.

Also - you say she is on mumsnet or talking to her mum... Have you considered that she is lonely? 4 year olds do not provide company really. How about a conversation about her day, about things you enjoy. How about she isn't really annoyed you have ignored the kids, she feels you are ignoring HER!

You do talk about monetary resources as being 'yours', rather than family. This is wrong.

I am concerned that you don't see you have come trampling all over your wife's MN. That's her space, not yours. You seem to know rather too much about her posting, and I suspect some underhand monitoring has gone on. People are telling you this is a breach of boundaries, and you are not listening. This is very worrying. It's almost like you'd rather be right than save your marriage

You are obsessing about details. If the drive bothers you that much, maybe she would, if she ever decides to forgive your crapness and come back, do you a deal. She might tip the water away where you want it, if you stop moaning about every mortal other thing. No-one died from an unwrung dischcloth.

Are you taking any of this on board at all?

Seriously, do you not get it?

SHE IS JUST ABOUT GETTING THROUGH THE DAY ..... And repeat.....

Sorry everyone, I actually read 95% of the OP and couldn't face RTFT after that (I want to go to bed). So,

Your attitude to money stinks. When something expensive happens, it hits your wife's wallet just as hard as yours. Because the money is shared equally, right?

Apologies if I've just cancelled the cheque.

I read it thinking it sounded an exhausting way to live your life for anyone.

I'm with the minority who think there might be something worth salvaging in this marriage.

In those relentless early days, especially with multiple under 3s, doesn't almost everyone keep a running mental checklist of who is doing what in the relationship? Don't we all feel we are working the hardest? It's just so tough getting through the days. The working partner gets home exhausted, walks through the door and the SAH partner thinks the cavalry has arrived and it's time for them to get a break. It's a wonder any relationships survive, really.

Plus in any relationship where neither of you is a complete doormat, you're going to have ongoing issues about different priorities.

The crucial thing will be whether you can learn to listen to each other, value each other, remember what you like about each other, appreciate what each other is contributing.....

Which might be easier in a counselling situation, if you can find the time and childcare to do it.

In the meantime, start with the thing you can change - you. Maybe write a long list of everything you like about her, and being in a relationship with her. And then tell her that, with an apology. Maybe ask what she was feeling when she left, listen, and ask what she needs to feel ok about coming back.

Good luck to the both of you, I hope you make it.

Are you talking to her? Because just picking through your OP I can totally see explanations for some of this stuff (and conversations I've had with my husband).

1. The fixing the floor. Ah, I've totally had this conversation. See, when you've got toddlers around your feet and you're at the end of your tether you couldn't give a stuff about DIY. If the house isn't actually in danger of falling down I would much rather have help with childcare than have something random fixed/replaced. Husband prefers the fixy jobs because at the end of it he feels he's achieved something but sometimes I don't need that.

2. Have you asked her why she does the tumbledryer water rather than just telling her not to? I'm reminded of when I was pregnant and husband gave me frequent lectures on turning the lights off. I explained that I couldn't - I was frequently carrying a load of laundry, and bending was uncomfortable so I didn't want to put it down and lift it again with the lights out. My hips were suffering so trooping back upstairs just to turn lights out was also not happening. He asked why I didn't just turn it off with my chin - I demonstrated - my chin is a good three inches below where he thinks it is (I'm short). Sometimes there are reasons! Is the water maybe heavy? Could you offer to do it when you get home each night?

3. Same with diet coke. Is she maybe being buried under a heap of bodies/breastfeeding in the day and just wants a drink within reach with nowhere easy to put it? I know once I'm buried under kids, anywhere out of a certain radius might as well be on the moon (my aunt kept helpfully making me cups of tea and placing them out of reach "so the baby couldn't get them" and leaving. I could have cried, watching it go cold because baby wasn't done feeding!)

4. The cuddle part is.. not you, it's part of having three kids. Sometimes you really can't face a cuddle (potentially leading to sex, and GOD TOO TIRED) because you're too touched out. Sometimes explaining why is really hard. Sometimes running away is easier.

Gshavik

You've had some very good advice here. I hope you're listening.

The one thing that sprung to my mind that I haven't noticed anyone else say yet is that your wife has spent a significant amount of the last four years pregnant. Pregnancy is utterly exhausting, especially when also looking after a baby and a toddler.

You talk about your children with love - you wouldn't have them if your wife hadn't been prepared to have 3 pregnancies in 4 years - something very, very few women will put their body through.

Family life isn't about white goods and DIY.

Do you put as much energy into your parenting/ supporting your wife as you do the above?

I think you just need to hire any DIY help and spend more time with the kids. Make a pact to have a day out at the weekend, pack a picnic, have some fun.

Make a pact to put the laptops away and watch a film / box set together.

Book a babysitter and take her out.

Stop fretting about the drive, the floors etc.

You are still talking more about the dryer than feelings. You want to explain and justify the dryer choice, but aren't addressing the fact your family is in crisis.
Where does the obsession come from? Things get old and broken. They just do. Is it due to your ASD? Is it about control...if you can control this astuff, maybe xyz bad thing won't happen? Why are you focusing all your frustrations on things rather than people?

You sound frustrated - whether that's because you wife is genuinely an unappreciative and hapless individual who is making life needlessly difficult for both of you, or whether it's because you are driving her to distraction by listing her faults at every opportunity, my guess is that she feels frustrated too.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong when it comes to a list of irritations - either she is deliberately doing things to wind you up, or you just think she is, but neither of these is a healthy option.
If you love her and want to save your marriage, then all I can suggest is that you tell her that you want to do whatever you can to fix things, that you are prepared to do whatever it takes to get back to the point of being on the same side and ask her if she wants that too.

"She knew I had been looking at one for that time period" Oh well that's OK then . Is she allowed to have an opinion different to you? Do you ever value her opinion? Do you value what matters to her? Or does your research trump all?

You remind me of someone I used to wfork with. He had no empathy with other people's opinions or values. He would research implicitly too. Therefore he knew best. Other people's issues were unimportant in comparison to 'the solution' he felt was best for the problem at hand. Didn't matter whether other people's problems were sorted out by the solution. His was clearly the most 'logical'. He spoke about other people with the same contempt you speak about your wife.

And no it isn't on to come on here and occupy a space that she used first for your own ends. It does matter that she was here first. You are encroaching on her space. It is controlling and could be viewed as a ploy to prevent her from accessing any support she may want from here.

You're treating her like an employee who isn't following the rules. It's not nice.

Family life isn't about white goods and DIY.

Do you put as much energy into your parenting/ supporting your wife as you do the above?

I think you just need to hire any DIY help and spend more time with the kids. Make a pact to have a day out at the weekend, pack a picnic, have some fun.

Make a pact to put the laptops away and watch a film / box set together.

Book a babysitter and take her out.

Stop fretting about the drive, the floors etc.

Re: Flooring get wrecked again - possibly, but using bathroom/kitchen laminate flooring in the living was (I thought) a masterstroke. I might be proven wrong in time, but at least the floor no longer smells like a wet dog.

MushroomsOnToast - I really try very hard to not be THAT GUY. I'm sure that's how it's coming across, but no. When utterances that have even approached that have come from me in the heat of an argument I really despise thinking that. I'm far more liberal than that really but, in fact, the money is only coming in from one side really for the foreseeable future.

NeedsAsockamnesty - Thanks, we had looked a childcare before DC1 was born and SAHM became the preferred option. It makes economical sense and as she was a primary teacher before parenthood was in theory perfect suiting her desires - her idea, but I fully backed it. I've said to her on many many occasions, to paraphrase, thanks for being the best mummy our children could ever wish for, or some soppy genuine variation on that. I cannot fault her as a mother other than too much shouting at them imho.

Mynameismyusername - In the stark light of day I'm sure these points would be petty in another situation, but I can't seem to dwell on these points as the Fix what I've Broken or Get What I Want Done doesn't mesh with Spend Time With Children or Go Have Some Fun very well. I dunno.

Generally to all - I see the word contempt getting used a lot here; I hadn't thought of that before and can see that it could well be coming through in my frustration. How did I get it and how can I get rid? Seriously, more I think of this the more I can see it and I'm not even sure how it crept up on me.

What strikes me is OP doesn't seem to allow his wife input into what happens in the house, he picked the washing machine ( which took weeks) ditto tumble dryer, what a nightmare for her with such young children! moans about her choice of car ( again he took weeks to sort as he was researching and looking for a good deal) Only choice she had was that it be a 7 seater) He will not do the work she wants done in the house i.e new washing line/ dishwasher but replaces the living room floor which with 3 under 4 will be wrecked again in no time! Blames his wife for any problems that do arise in the house instead of just getting on with it. Think I would be a pissed off at you too if you were my dh.

I have one of those dryers that you empty and the water tank is bloody heavy. I don't like carrying it and usually spill it. Also I am usually also rushing to do yet another horrible job.