You cannot communicate with batshit

[Pingpang]

Following on from a recent thread regarding those who are NC/LC with family members.

Welcome to the good ship Narcymcnarcface! The bar is stocked and there's a seat for everyone. Shuffleboard starts in 20 mins.

Shhhh, I'm under the 3rd deck chair on the left.
My batshit likes to Internet stalk me and mine, so I'll be sticking to less identifiable stories.
Just wanted to say hi, please pass down a 🍷 And maybe some nice blue cheese if there's any around.
And a duvet.

Hair. Yes. Check. That sick feeling you get when hair is being yanked. My hair hasn't been more than an inch long since I could afford to pay for my own haircuts.
The weird hairstyles, odd outfits, being dragged out for special occasions and being a disappointment. The lack of advice on hygiene/appearance/ puberty.

Confabulation plays HUGE round here.

Also I'm also identifying with the pre-assumed difficulty with bonding.
I knew it wouldn't come naturally to me, and i did very much 'fake it til I made it'.
Me and dd are going great now but I'd say the first few years were less than automatic.
ive never been emotionally deep though. I'm pretty stunted in that area.
I feel, I'm just not 'connected' to my emotions.
Is that a 'thing'? Like the disassociation?

Babble - yes it certainly is. All your emotions are "flattened", locked down along with possibly traumatic memories.

I got to a point where the only emotion I could actually recognise was anger - from irritation to homicidal incandescent rage - nothing else registered. This was the point that I started counselling (admittedly this was linked more to a broken relationship, but my relationship with my mum also took a bit of a nosedive at this point)

Godstopper you are an amzingly strong person - wow- you have overcome so much awfulness and achieved so much.

Other posters -I have been finding it incredible to read all your stories about hair - I thought it was only me. My mum made me have long hair and styled it in various weird plaits each day (bit like a Victorian) - twirled around my ears like ear muffs, up and over the top of my head but always with a stupid plaited bun on the top standing out like a walnut whip or a turd - I loathed it and of course was seen as weird because of it by teachers and pupils alike. It really blighted my school life. No one seemed to believe that I was such a wimp that I had it just because my mum said so.

It was also very painful having these stylings done - my mum would push the hairpins really hard into my scalp and ofcourse long hair is so tatty. If I flinched I'd get whacks with the wooden brush, often on my head. Can't stand having my hair up now or wearing hats etc. and hate to see photos of me as a child. Sorry you all went through similar too.

Thanks for the kind words, those who replied. I think, for people like us, a forum is a relatively safe space to say what we do not often dare say IRL, or at least it is for me.

Thumbwitch: I've often wondered that, r.e. abused herself. A social worker alluded to something unmentionable once, but as you say, it is not an excuse. I also think that, once you have children, there are some fundamental things you simply do not do. My Aunt (her sister) says they had a normal upbringing with my GP's. Certainly, I can just about recall normality before all the drinking began.

My Grandfather mostly blames it on the death of his wife. Again, I am sure losing your spouse of 26 years is horrific, but most people do not become alcoholics and then go on to physically beat up family members! Nor do they sell the house, spend £40k (lot of money in the 80's!) in a year, then end up in a squalid flat having lost their job and only making forays out to the off-license and pub.

He is 76 and in sheltered accommodation now. My sister occasionally visits him, but no-one else does. I said that he would end up a lonely old man, and that is what has happened. I once broached my upbringing with him and got this:

I am sorry if you feel that things were not o.k.

What? As with my mother, it is the complete absence of personal responsibility with these type of people that I find truly baffling. Do they believe that it was acceptable, or do they know that it was pretty horrific and are in denial?

My mother also says I "ruined her life" as she was due to go to the RCM before she became pregnant. Now, I get that 17 is less than ideal to have a child, but at that time, my GP's had taken me in and she went on to have many more! It is another excuse.

My sister says "she is still our mum", but I don't even know what that means. Simply giving birth to someone does not then entitle you to have a life-long relationship with them if then you act in some pretty unforgiveable ways.

Babblefish: I think I get the "disconnection" thing. I am able to speak about everything matter of factly, mostly because it feels like it happened to someone else. I also seem to have inappropriate emotional responses, sometimes (you become emotionally fatigued, or at least, I have). I'm 34 now, and it's taken me years longer to get my act together, but I'm trying, and not doing too badly :)

godstopper: that's exatly what I was thinking about your post, you seem so factual about it all. like its in this box that your not going to let affect you.
That's how it feels for me, but sometimes when I open the box to talk in places like this, I'm suddenly surprised to find I'm shaking afterwards. Even tho I sound practically robot like when I am describing it.

You sound like its working for you, I think it's mostly working for me. work in progress. I've a good decade plus on you, so I think your doing great for where you are. I hope to be mature by the time I retire.

I reserve the right to become over emotional if people are being arseholes.

Also godstopper I so don't get the 'she's your/our mum' thing. I always end up looking blankly at people when they say it.
It must be even more perplexing for you when it's your sister saying it, at least I can excuse people's ignorance cos they weren't there.

It amazes me how a dad (hypothetical, mine is actually fab) can be an arse and walk away and your allowed to think he's a prick and want nothing to do with him but mums get this free pass, like they can do anything and people still think you are the one who is flawed if you can't drum up some smidgeon of love for them.

I suppose my rationale is this: These people have had enough control and power over our lives already, so why give them any more? That, of course, sounds simplistic and is much harder to put into practice! But it is a principle that works well for me.

When I visited home a few years ago (some siblings still live on the same Island), my sister had arranged a meet-up with our mother [i]without my knowledge[/i]. That caused a bit of a fall-out. It did, however, confirm to me that little had changed: first thing she did was ask me for money so she could go and buy some lager!

This is another thing: she seems to think I am wealthy (I'm not, I'm getting by like most people!) and, therefore, is entitled to money. Her last child died at a few weeks old, ostensibly of cot death - I say ostensibly as there is a thought in my head that is too awful to voice, but perhaps not completely 'out there' given the background. Anyway, she demanded thousands for the funeral. Yes, really. I had never seen this sibling (she was in a house being monitored by social services to see if it could work out when it happened - I don't know much about these facilities, but as I said, people do get lots of chances even after previous adoptions), and whilst it was sad, I found it hard to reconcile her apparent upset at this death with the complete lack of concern for her other children. I never paid, and was made to feel guilty.

Three were adopted to the same family, and apparently (my brother's adopted-mom is a teacher in a PRU who has had some dealings with them - small Island) they have signs of foetal alcohol syndrome (aggressive behavior in school is apparently consistent with it, hence once ended up in the PRU). I found this out in October. This makes me sad, for them mostly of course, because how much influence can one person have ?!?! The stress has contributed to the breakdown of their adopted parents marriage, so that is more lives affected. Unbelievable.

Might continue a bit later on .....

A blank, uncomprehending look is also my response!

I am reasonably close to my sister, and this is the one thing we argue about. She tells me herself she recalls being pushed down the stairs, being beaten up etc. She now has two children of her own, and my own view is that allowing them to meet her places her children at risk. She says that they need to have "a Nan", but you would think no "Nan" is better than that! However, things are slowly changing: she does not visit as often, and no longer allows her children unsupervised with her. I consider this progress, and trying to force her to do much else is likely to be unsuccessful. So that's where we are now.

You earn the right to be a "Mum", is the way I see it.

Godstopper sorry you had such an awful time

'I am sorry if you feel that things were not o.k.' another one for narc bingo? The NON apology! I've had hundreds of these from my mother re my father's sa. The inference being i've made it all up!

Fear of being a shit parent ourselves - my dd is now a teen and it scares me when I get angry. I go to my room or go for a walk but even then I feel like I've failed.

When she was a baby though I went the other way, I lost 3 before her and her pregnancy was touch and go too, when she was small, actually until she was school age there were exactly 3 people I would leave her alone with - NONE of them family! All from toxic families themselves i've literally just realised! I wouldn't leave her at all until she was nearly 6 months.

I think quite a few of us said earlier or on first thread about the 'oh but she/he's your mum/dad's but in reference to people outside the family. Yes I get it from within the family too. Mainly my sister who as I've said is in complete genuine psychological denial.

godstopper, interesting about your sister decreasing access to 'Nan' for her kids.

I've been low contact for many decades, but since my dd came along my tolerance for the batshit has dropped off dramatically.
The direction has changed somewhat,she focuses now on trying to persuade me that my dp is , so I and dd will come back and live with her....

Been reading and nodding along. My NM always had my hair cut to a very short pixie and I didn't have any say in it. I remember desperately wanting long hair and have pretty plaited pigtails like other girls but this was never allowed. The only reason I remember my NM to tell me was that the long hair would make me horribly hot. I had fine hair so it wasn't like it would have been too difficult to manage. She clearly just didn't want to.

During the primary school, there was only one other girl in my class who also always had her hair cut short. Everyone else had long hair (I still have all my class photos so it's a fact ). I was good friends with this other pixie cut girl and she also had a difficult home life and has had mental health issues since the teens. Just an observation.

Here's a funny one, if my mother was being "nice" to me, she used to tell me to try and tan.

Which is odd, if you saw me you'ld see why! I do not have a skin tone that tans!

"wear something with strappy sleeves so you get some sun on your arms", "go and change into some shorts to get some sun on your legs"

So weird. I never tanned, I could never tan even if I lived on a desert island I'ld stay pink forever.

Ha screen mine too! Or she'd tell me to go put some make up on as I looked half dead, I'm sure I was the only girl in school actively encouraged to wear make up!

Eek, not mine! "Cover yourself up you hussy" was the refrain if I wasn't head-to-toe dressed up. Heard myself almost saying it to someone we were driving past the other day, clapped hand over mouth as fast as possible

I still have to "cover up" as much as possible to this day, and often have to check with DH who will say I look like a nun flattering. Come to think of it, that might partly be why I have a vitamin D deficiency actually. Always hated the sun as I ended up overheating and still haven't got the hang of light airy clothes...

Anyway, hope you're all doing ok today fellow shipmates.

Thanks Merd.

Mine burned my parka jacket cos 'I looked like a boy'. I was 16 and I'd paid for it myself from a summer job.

Here's one:
When I was angry about anything - she would tell me I looked ugly.
No recognition of the emotion or reason for it at all. Just that she didn't like how me being angry made me look.
Every. Single. Time.
The rage still burns.

I remember when I was 14, my mother took me to town to buy school uniform. With a great deal of interference from her I picked a maxi skirt (that was totally in line with the school uniform code) but overnight she decided it wasn't right, so then the next day she took me back up the town and made me "choose" another one (i.e. she looked at me with the scary face until I picked the one she liked). Imagine even having that many thoughts about what a 14 year old is wearing. Not that it wasn't uniform, not that it was halfway up my arse... no, she just didn't like the style.
My kids are 4 and this comic sums up their attitude to fashion. And I think it is the best thing ever (except when they take 45 minutes to choose an outfit, I will say that - thank goodness they've now reached an age where you can get them to choose the night before and they'll still be happy with that choice in the morning.) The only thing I ever have to do is make sure there's an appropriate number of garments to keep them warm/cool enough, stick sunblock on the bare bits, and put some sensible shoes on them, and that's IT. I always resolved to be that kind of parent, you know, celebrating their individuality and all that - it was only after a while in therapy that I realised that was a fairly standard way to want to parent your children, and not some incredibly far out yoghurt-knitting alternative approach.

My mother would 'accidently' destroy anything I liked. So my favourite mug was smashed by accident when she was in the kitchen, a lovely jumper was put in a boil wash - that sort of thing. Or my things would be given away because I didn't use them, even if I had used them the previous day. She would also tell me I looked fat in clothes I really really liked so I wouldn't wear them.

She didn't really do much to my hair but thats because there were three girls that she could get to do each others hair so she didn't have to bother. When my twin and I were around 8 though she did take us to the hair dresser and get all our long hair cut short. She tried to blame the hairdresser but she was watching the whole time so must have known. Slightly back fired though because I wanted short hair. My twin was devestated though. After that when she took us to the hairdresser we had to make sure that we told them what style we wanted so she didn't interfere

Afternoon shipmates how all is well with everyone

If amazes me how similar people's experiences are although some obviously more extreme than others there's always a similar theme.

It makes me feel better to know other people think along the same lines as I do re. Kids being individuals I don't know why you would want your child to be a mini you, which is how I think my mum sees me. In hindsight her BatshitNess went away off the scale when I moved away from home and began asserting my independence. I remember a friend told me how much I had changed in a year - I think it's because I was finally living my own life instead of an extension of hers.

dragon my mum would give away my things as well, once she gave a brand new nail varnish I'd bought the day before away to a 5 yr old family friend just because

Apologies for the vast array of spelling errors in there, bloody autocorrect.

Anyone fancy a little reminisce about school photos? In the couple of weeks running up to the photo taking I'd be inspected for spots, which of course were caused not by random skin irritation or you know, being a kid with oily skin, but by my willful desire to fuck up my school photo. Once when I was 9 I got a spot below my nose. That thing was the itchiest fucking spot I ever had, but I had to not touch it or she'd say that my rubbing my nose had brought it on/made it worse (nose rubbing is magic - it also caused my facial hair to magically turn dark when I was prepubescent). She said it anyway, and she had this massive rant at me on the morning of the photo taking, before giving me a ton of instructions ("sit up straight, remember to put your pony tail over your shoulder so you can see it, and SMILE"). You should see the actual photo: the smile is totally false, the eyes look totally panicked. Of course the spot was visible so when she got the photos she went off on one as well. You know the worst thing is that on individual days, for some part of the day anyway, she could be OK. And at that age you desperately need someone to love you, so you keep trying. I think by the time I was about 12 or 13 I had the strength/insight to just give the fuck up and be a grey rock to her the whole time - it's the times before that that really hurt.

OK this bit might be a bit triggering - bullying, violence, that sort of thing
When I was 8,9,10. I remember being yelled at for being bullied: it annoyed her if I came home with tears on my face, if the teacher or another parent let her know what was going on: "even an animal defends itself" she would roar, inches from my face. And I would just freeze and count the seconds till it stopped. Problem was, you couldn't even properly dissociate, because she would ask these rhetorical questions like I don't know, "what kind of a human being would let someone do that to them?" and you know, normal people do not expect an answer to a question like that.

toomuch - that's rough. :( How awful to bully your own child because they're being bullied!

I don't think my Mum fussed too much about school photos, luckly. I have one that was taken when I was about 7 in which I look shocking: despite having fine, flyaway, ginger curlyish hair, my Mum used to buy me those fucking awful plastic flower headbands - anyone else remember those? - and my hair was always getting caught up in the plastic flowers. I had 'orrible blue national health glasses and some godawful dress on that just didn't go with me, my glasses, or my hair. I don't look happy at all! But many of the clothes mum bought me were like that - my favourite dress was one I found in a jumble sale, of all places! Loved that dress.
I think that goes with the "appearance" thing though - mum wasn't obsessed with appearance, so wasn't fussed about how I looked.

Thumb it sounds like your mother was the ignoring narcissist kind? Mine was definitely an engulfer.

toomuch that sounds awful

I've been wondering about photos as well, not just school photos though

My mother and grandmother have no photos up around the house nothing not even their wedding photos, when we used to get school photos she would just put them in a draw. The only photo I have of our family me, brother, dad and mum is from my wedding when I specifically asked to have one as part of our photos otherwise nothing for 30 years!

Is that normal? Did your awful school pictures get displayed?

Hi can I join please? Title of the thread stood out to me immediately, it's just what my dh says to me about my "dm" and so true. When I was having counselling a few years ago my counsellor finally made me realise that I'll never be able to have a normal relationship or even basic rational conversation with my mother without it turning negative, critical and toxic. I tried so hard to be who she wanted me to be for most of my life and I regret that now, it was having my daughter 5 years ago that changed everything for me, I saw everything in a different light and have become more and more appalled by the behaviour she thinks is normal for a mother daughter relationship, plus so many memories come flooding back, things I either buried or thought were normal until I had my own daughter.

I try to deal with her by seeing her as a spoilt child trapped inside the body of a woman in her 70's, and she is currently not speaking to me for god knows what tiny thing I did or said wrong last time I saw her. We first get a period of her trying to be "nice" that lasts a few days or a week, she'll offer to pick dd up from school and give her tea, then she thinks that's earned her the right to hassle me constantly with phone calls, texts and emails, wants to know every tiny detail of our lives, being controlling, negative, critical, and rudely opinionated plus trying to tell me what to do and that everything I do is wrong. She is always right of course and how dare I ever question that - she acts like a brat whilst trying to treat me like the child again. Then we'll get radio silence for a week or more until either I cave for the sake of my dd asking to see grandma, or for the sake of my dad who I do want to speak to and see. I'll then get the whole woe is me, my life is so terrible, nobody loves me, you'll all be sorry when I'm gone etc and often she'll invent some illness or worrying symptoms she's been having, hinting that it could mean she might have cancer.

I find her utterly draining, she sucks the life out of me, but only me and my dh talk about what she's like. My dad tries to laugh her behaviour off and my brother refuses to engage in a conversation about her, they both stick their heads in the sand and pretend it's not as bad as it really is, that she's going a bit senile they say laughing. It's denial basically. Plus they've never copped the worst of it.

Nope, there is no communicating with batshit, I spent some time after counselling grieving for the mother I wanted but never had, I don't care about the future or ever trying to talk to her or repair any of the damage, my little girl is my future, I was grieving for the little girl I used to be, and that I could have ended up very different and without some of my own issues about myself that I think I'll struggle with forever, if she'd ever really loved me in a normal healthy way and cared about me enough to be kind loving and supportive 😔

Climbing aboard HMS Batshit. Have read and read - not sure how much I can contribute due to flying internet-stalking monkeys - but so much of what has been written has hit home.

I'm in my 40s but have only had 20+ years of life - I remember very little until I left home. I have shut everything out and have few emotions.

Just this week discovered they have offered money to anyone who will remove my children. I would like them to be buried with their money, it'll make the crematorium burn hotter.