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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

You cannot communicate with batshit

562 replies

Pingpang · 27/05/2016 22:23

Following on from a recent thread regarding those who are NC/LC with family members.

Welcome to the good ship Narcymcnarcface! The bar is stocked and there's a seat for everyone. Shuffleboard starts in 20 mins.

OP posts:
Merd · 01/06/2016 22:10

I have no idea! Confused Apparently I borrowed it from DH's mum a good 10 years or so ago, read it, didn't like it so gave it back, and we all had a long chat about it at dinner one night.

With books I usually remember (say) character names or the plot but I don't recognise anything from the description or reviews on Amazon and so on, so that's a bit weird. It's on order so I'll see how it goes this time round... See what I mean about my memory though?!

DH remembers every detail of everything though, which is very useful actually when I get lost in the FOG again. And he remembers everything I've told him over the years about my childhood or that my parents have which is again useful. He's like google but in real life!

I wonder if it's sometimes worse to remember stuff really. I think my head is quieter than his is sometimes.

Baconyum · 01/06/2016 22:13

Serious now - I wonder if you blocked the book because it was too close to heart? No need to answer

Merd · 01/06/2016 22:29

I really don't know! It's on Amazon prime so should be here soon, I'm intrigued myself.

Toria2014 · 01/06/2016 23:14

Thank you for the biscuits and tea Smile

I am not sure my Mum is a full blown narc, but there are definitely characteristics I recognise. I feel a bit like I am going crazy. I have a lot of stress and upset in my childhood. Don't remember much affection. Was dumped with au pairs and nannies. My Dad used to beat my Mum up, they would fight viciously. I was always told I was a difficult child etc etc. After the divorce was left to look after my little sister the majority of the time. My mother would mope and languish in her bed. Was never seemingly happy. She suffered (still does) from hypothyroidism, venomously denies ever being depressed. I could go on for pages and pages.

But when I think about it all, I feel like it is my fault for not being a better person. I should be more understanding, compassionate. Its me thats wrong, maybe I am going mad. Maybe my feelings are imagined and not justified.

The way I feel after her suicide attempt is not normal, I am not sure. I should be feeling concerned and compassionate, instead I feel bloody angry and betrayed. Its like the icing on the top of a shitty cake and I am tired of the fucking cake. She has been suffering from pretty horrendous pain, but didn't go to the doctor as she doesn't trust them, but lied to me about going to see the doctor. She said she just wanted to die. But it was the way she went about it. She lied to me, repeatedly. My sister was over from abroad, we were having a joint birthday party for nephew, niece and her, cake, balloons. She chose that day. What she took wouldn't kill her on its own, it would've done if she had managed to down the half pint of whiskey. We found her on the floor foaming at the mouth. When she was pretty out of it in the hospital she said some nice things to me, said I was a good mother, and that she loves me. Trouble is, whenever she says she loves me I don't believe her! I don't feel loved by her, never have. I feel loved by my husband, so I know what love is, but the difference is he accepts me for who I am without any conditions. She doesn't.

I left it a week before finally being calm enough to phone her. She talked about herself, understandably, but when I asked her how she felt about the affect it had on everyone else, she got shitty, and said this was all about her. It affected both my sister and myself very badly, also my BIL and my DH, and daughter, who witnessed the terrible upset it caused. She is only two, but she's not impervious and that makes me angry too. So she basically said that only her feelings mattered. I haven't spoken to her since. I am not sure I can come back from this, and I know it makes me look like the bad daughter (again) as my sister toes the line as she hates confrontation and feels massively guilty of living at the other side of the world with my mother in such poor health.

I am just so confused. I feel these feelings but I feel like they are not justified, yet they are a culmination of my entire relationship with my mother. Its always about her, at least 75% of the time anyway, she has the good grace to be interested in our lives. Which is so confusing. Yet she seemingly doesn't give a shit about the damage she has done.

Arrrrrrrrggggghhhhhhhhhhh tears out hair

Not sure any of this makes sense. Whichever way I look at it I feel like a bitch. Maybe I am the narcissist? Shock

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 02/06/2016 05:04

Toria - first and most importantly - you cannot be the narcissist because you are questioning it. If you were a narc, you wouldn't question your own behaviour in any way, it would clearly be the other person/people who were at fault, every time.
Thanks for you - your anger is understandable and actually a normal reaction in among the shock to your mother's attempted suicide, especially as she did it so "publicly".

As for it all being about her - well it is, really. She didn't think or want to think about anyone else's feelings, only her own and how to stop her own pain or whatever. Assuming that she actually intended for it to work, and wasn't just doing it for effect (a possibility if she's a proper narc). Either way, give yourself a break and feel whatever you need to - she's been very selfish, deliberately, and it's ok to be angry about that. She might also have been genuinely tired of the pain and life and so on; but genuine suicides usually make sure they're going to succeed and do it quietly where they're unlikely to be stopped or found until too late.

Do see your GP though, because they might be able to offer help, advice, support, I don't know.

Misc - bloody well done to you for getting the GP appt as quickly as you did! That's excellent work, especially given how low you were feeling, am really impressed! ThanksWine

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 02/06/2016 05:11

Oops, meant to say to Screen - your dear ma probably gets off on getting angry with you. She's enjoying herself! Some people like to pick fights with others, it makes them feel more alive. Bet she's one of those. She's having a ball getting a rise out of you, so if you deprive her of your presence, it's like you're taking her favourite toy away.

Emotional vampirism involves shooting verbal poison darts into the victim (something my mum was dead good at) - if you imagine those darts cause you to leak emotional energy when she pierces your skin, then that's why she's doing it - she then gets to suck up your emotional energy.
www.drjudithorloff.com/Free-Articles/Emotional-Vampire-survival.htm

Don't know if you remember the stuff I wrote on the last thread about your own protection - space suit or greenhouse - but it's very useful against the emotional vampire.

OurBlanche · 02/06/2016 08:18

May I update? I had an accidental Flying Monkey moment.

Went out last night for a quick drink and met a woman I very occasionally see when out running (well, she runs, I sort of shuffle). She said, "Oh! I think I know your SIL.. XX?" She named PoisonousSIL, so I smiled and said yes, she is my SIL.

To paraphrase she explained - She's quite upset at the monent. Apparently you have said something that has upset the whole family! She was talking about it in the staff canteen. I said I think I know you and she went off one one. What's the deal?

I replied that SIL and I had never really got on, you know, you just don't click with some people. Not sure why but, as we don't keep in touch it really isn't a problem.

Friend the smiled and said something like "Ah that makes sense." And then changed the subject, so I didn't press her!

I am not sure how I feel about that.... we shall see, I suppose!

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 02/06/2016 08:35

Running acquaintance probably has the measure of poisonous SIL - she's slagging you off to anyone who will listen, you are quietly reasonable, guess who most normal people are going to believe?

OurBlanche · 02/06/2016 08:52

I hope so, ThumbWitches, I really do. But being believed/thought of as reasonable isn't what I worry over...

DH and I never explain, we have always just said we don't get on, haven't seen them recently, etc.

I can't explain it without sounding prudish/snobbish, but the thought of someone thinking that any part of my life is so much like a soap opera/JK show is really embarrassing. I really don't like drama, am very reserved. In fact, as far as I can tell that is the root of our issues, she is very, very different to me and sees every difference as a personal slight/judgement of her.

I am going to have to stop running, aren't I Sad

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 02/06/2016 08:56

No, of course not! I get your embarrassment and that it's horrible to know that your PSIL is yapping about personal family business to all and sundry, but you can turn it off by laughing and saying something like "oh yes, SIL can be very dramatic, she has a great imagination! every molehill becomes a mountain, I think she'd be great on Eastenders (or similar, maybe not JK though!)"

Don't let her affect your life outside the family as well, that would be such a shame. Especially if you enjoy your shuffling run.

OurBlanche · 02/06/2016 09:03

Thanks! Oddly I am usually the one who comes up with one liners for friends in need. Just can't seem to do it for myself. Smile

To be honest this is only the second time in 16 years she has impinged on our lives, whilst all the old feelings of eeeeeeek have come back, I am sure I can get back to not thinking of her quite quickly. This has helped... a couple of "Holy Crap" blurts and I shall be ready to face the world Grin

Missymoomoo1979 · 02/06/2016 17:34

I'd like to join please. My bat shit crazy is my brothers girlfriend. She went too far in December and I've had virtually no contact with her since.
Nothing is ever her fault. Will never take the blame for anything she's done.
December we had a wedding. She kicked off big time. Went for my dh in front of all the kids and was calling him a cunt? Why? Because he told her to mind her language in front of the kids.
She has had a tragedy in her life but surely we should not be accepting of her behaviour because of it?

OurBlanche · 02/06/2016 17:37

She sounds like a real charmer!

Sod her... and your DB if he chooses to put her first!

Missymoomoo1979 · 02/06/2016 18:00

They have kids together. I dread to think what they see and hear. Never her fault though.

Toria2014 · 02/06/2016 18:33

Thanks Thumb its just so depressing to think that this is my mother. She is not all bad, and has done a lot of lovely things, but our relationship has never recovered from my experiences as a child, from my side anyway. I don't think she sees it like I do. As far as she is concerned she did the best she could and thats enough. No apologies or comment required. I think I am constantly after her approval and that puts me in a vulnerable position. Silly, considering I am 42!

She did a lot of spiritual work on herself, for many years, and I have fallen into the trap of believing her when she said I could be honest with her about my feelings. So I was. She didn't like that and refused to come to my wedding! I told her that I would never speak to her again, so she relented and came. She can't take any criticism, no matter how gently given, even if she has asked for it. I think she is a bit wary of me though as I am apparently like my father (something I was constantly derided for as a child) and he used to keep her very much in check, (but on an abusive level towards the end of their marriage) and when I say something I mean it. When my father died, she said 'I don't know why you are so upset'.

I had next to no self confidence as a child, was painfully shy, to the point of not being able to speak to people. Was bullied mercilessly at school. It took me many years to find my voice.

I have a two year old. I thought long and hard about whether to have a child as I was terrified of being like my mother. I felt so abandoned and unloved, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I am determined to not make the same mistakes, but I'm sure I'll manage to cock it up somehow. My mother said that as a baby/child I didn't like to be cuddled. This gem of information cane about as I asked her why I had no memories of being hugged as a child. I am suspicious that her story isn't the truth as I hug my little girl all the time, I can't imagine not.

I think I'll have a cocktail whilst trying to get my head on straight, maybe a few......Wink

ChickenShit · 02/06/2016 21:12

Hi all,

NC because feeling a bit paranoid about being outed IRL after I've worked so hard so appear like a fully functioning 'normo' :)

Not really sure why I'm posting to be honest, I think I just want a bit of advice as Im constantly questioning whether my emotional responses to my narc DF are appropriate or just me overreacting...

I have always tolerated my toxic DF and his manipulative ways, I have managed to largely keep out of the drama that engulfs anyone who comes into contact with him as I am very boundaried, very guarded, very private and decline/don't ask for financial help from him.

I guess this is LC, and it has worked ok for me up until recently. DC1 was born at the end of last year, and from the moment she was born I have been dreaming of going NC. When she was first born I felt sick at the thought of him touching her, it made the first few weeks really hard, I couldnt stand having him around, but also felt guilty that I was depriving him of precious moments with his first GC. I feel so torn as he goes on and on about how much he loves DC, but I know from experience that although he loves all babies (they are a pretty safe way to get some narsasistic supply without fear of criticism!) he is unable to maintain healthy relationships once they become a bit older. Also, his love for DC is that typical narc love, whereby it's very showy in public, but is completely disinterested in her as a person (no concern about illness, no interest in her reaching milestones etc).

I want to protect my daughter from him, I know that he is an awful person, he is controlling and manipulative and down right nasty at times, I do not have the courage to instigate going NC without a reason :(

I am basically waiting for him to give me an excuse to cut him off, I know that he definitely will at some point, but so far he has been on best behaviour and I'm panicking that this will continue until DC is old enough that he has got his claws into her. At the minute I see him for about an hour once a week (it's hell) but I never leave DC alone with him. Do any of you have experience of instigating NC at a point when things were calm, rather than in response to a blowout?

GarlicSteak · 02/06/2016 23:16

I rather suspect you can trigger the blowout by informing him you don't want to see him any more ...

GarlicSteak · 02/06/2016 23:26

Misc, I've just read your Wednesday posts - I'm rationing my time on here due to disappearance into vortex. Regarding your GP. Can you discuss what you said in your post, and request a regular slot every 3 weeks or whatever you need? I'm currently doing this with mine, and it helps a lot. If I run out of issues to discuss, I can always cancel - but that ain't gonna happen for several more visits!

Turning up for a ten-minute consultation with a list doesn't help anyone. But regular 10-minute episodes can potentially become the full story (so I hope!)

Baconyum · 03/06/2016 00:46

Toria

"I should be feeling concerned and compassionate, instead I feel bloody angry and betrayed" not unusual feelings around suicide/suicide attempts. Even in 'normal' families.

I'd wager your sister lives the other side of the world at least partly BECAUSE of how your mother is.

Baconyum · 03/06/2016 00:56

"genuine suicides usually make sure they're going to succeed " in the kindest possible way please don't perpetuate this myth. Women especially tend to prefer toxins as a method of suicide but many don't know (thankfully) what's needed. Attempted suicide indicates an increased likelihood of completed suicide in the future (sorry toria)

Baconyum · 03/06/2016 01:03

Chickenshit, here we will of course advise and support but you may also find it helpful to post on stately homes thread, there's some wonderful posters there. There's also the out of the fog website.

MiscellaneousAssortment · 03/06/2016 01:14

So much of what people write rings a bell - great loud church bells actually!

The disassociation is something that I've been working really hard on. I think. I switch between total memory blocks and other disassociation stuff and rather unpleasant flash backs from PTSD. It's, well it's ducking hard and I'm glad, quite selfishly glad really when you think about it that other people do this too. Although imagine that, a whole ship filled with people that can effectively blank out any memories a sap. Let's hope we don't all so it simultaneously or this craft may become a rapid swim and a balmy sandy island with coconuts!

I thought I was going mad when I worked out what was happening. But thank goodness it appears to be a protection strategy to endure awful times without harm, or at least, total devastating harm. Kind of the brains air bag when a crisis cannot be averted. But then, changing circumstances make this safety measure redundant, or actually unhelpful, but our brains don't actually know a different way to be so carry on doing what they've always done.

So, learning new strategies and hard wiring them into the brain is what needs to happen for me at least.

I'm still scrapping the surface though since this time that I've realized and I've been going at it for a year... This time.

My damn brain is so sneaky it took a long time to realize in a spooky 6th sense haunted house type of moment.. ive done this before. Had no sodding idea. I'd been through Counselling a few times through my 20s as I found the disassociation and memory blanks terrifying. Each time I'd had a unskilled counsellor who saw a vivacious, put together and funny young person who had a few adolescent angst things about a normal middle class upbringing. As I lacked the words and insight to know what I was trying to explain... I just knew something was very wrong. Then came the opening of the flood dates, memories I was totally unequipped to handle or process. Then some kind of devastating crisis (self harm, suicide planning, mental collapses etc), which led to withdrawing abruptly from the counsellor before it killed me. And then blocked the whole thing out. Leaving me back at zero.

Knocked me for 6 when I found out. I found some notes which hammered it home rather. Then, bloody brain of mine, it tried to forget again!!! Thank goodness I made new notes on my phone and then told the current counsellor who has hung onto the truth for me since. It's pretty staked to the metaphorical brain now, but who knows... Better help though this time. And she doesn't wish to take a sledge hammer to the walls before I've got some way of dealing with the memories when they come out.

I have more of an impetus this time. DS, of course, and actually me too rather urgently... My physical reality was ignored and denied throughput childhood. Which is somewhat problematic as it turns out I have inherited a genetic condition which was gradually disabling me, and now I am very disabled and not recognizing when I'm in pain, or when I'm on my last reserves. I go right up to when I can't, which is a huge way beyond other people's 'can't'. And I sound unconvincing, don't know how to make my needs heard.

I lie a lot. By accident/ not on purpose anyway. To fill in what my brain is hiding. To sound coherent. To cover up my lack of being a normal person.

E.g. At Physio. She'd given me an exercise to do. Asks me how it's going. I don't know how it's going, argh! I've stopped, why did I stop ok I lie and say I'm finding it too upsetting so stopped. I apologize and know I sound shit to the Physio. I promise to start it up again. It's an everyday task but is hard to do as reminds me of a huge thing I've been forced to give up... So plausible excuse. Yet when I come out of the appointment I think, no, that wasn't true! I actually stopped as it's incredibly painful and sets off a reaction that leaves me with a full on migraine like reaction that can last 24-48 hrs. So, armed with this knowledge I changed around the exercise and added braces and icepacks, and great care not to use the offending muscle/joint/nerves. And I am doing it now, after a fashion.

And as I'm trying hard to change I forced myself to admit that I'd not been able to articulate the issue and this is a great example of how hard physically sensing my own body is. And Physio was nice about it (phew) but did observe that is gone the long way round and it was gonna be a long ole trek to get to even get to the basics. And froze the Physio as I need to do a series of other stuff first then Physio might stand a chance. So sorry I'm whittering, point being...

  1. God it's hard to be vulnerable. When everything screams at me that revealing vulnerability gives people (my terrible mother) an 'in' to abuse me some more.
  1. And god it's hard to stop my one track mind (!) from shielding me from my bodies signals, my own emotions, my needs and desires, and any traumatic memory.
  1. God it's hard to care for myself and navigate a health system where the loudest get help and the quietest get forgotten or dismissed.

Hoping someone understands this and I'm not completely mental sounding. Wine Cake Chocolate for shipmates.

And a sprinkling of stars from the crows nest. Star Star Star Star Star

NanaNina · 03/06/2016 01:14

I can't join in the banter - it's not my thing and I can't wade through 10 pages. I have never heard the batshit until I started to use MN, nor so many narcs - ok genuine question, can someone clarify for me what is the definition of batshit and can anyone be called batshit or is it mainly MILS/FILS/SILs (MIL'S daughter) and a few mothers maybe> Please correct me if I'm wrong.

GarlicSteak · 03/06/2016 01:42

Nina, the thread that gave birth to this one was about cutting contact with parents whose difficult personalities have caused serious problems for the posters. It has diversified & expanded here and there, but this is still the core.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 03/06/2016 03:41

Sorry Bacon - won't do so again. Blush

Nina - what is your reason for asking? If you genuinely want to know the answer then you do need to read the thread, I'm sorry, as people on here have each got their own person who qualifies as "batshit" - not all related to them. If you feel that you are or have been a victim of someone who has been driving you crazy with their seeming inability to behave in a rational manner, then you shouldn't need to ask what "batshit" is about, you'll already know, as most people on this thread do.

And what Garlic said.

What this thread is NOT is a MIL/FIL/SIL/DIL bashing thread. It's a support thread for anyone who has been at the back end of abusive behaviours.