Best Amazon Prime Day deals: Mumsnet favourites

Best Amazon Prime Day deals:
Mumsnet favourites

Shop now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What is a narcicist?

57 replies

janaus · 05/05/2016 03:36

Could someone please explain to me, in simple terms, what they think a narcisist is?
It was mentioned in counselling, but I don't know anything about it.
Thanks again.

OP posts:
pocketsaviour · 05/05/2016 18:57

Jan are you still with this clown? :(

His crap/non-existent gift giving is also a classic narc trait, btw.

None of us here can say whether he's a narc or just a faithless, self-centred attention whore.

Either way, do you really want to stick around?

MusicIsMedicine · 06/05/2016 21:04

No problem!

Here's another great one:

www.narcissisticmother.com

MusicIsMedicine · 06/05/2016 21:05

It might not apply but there's some good info about any narcissist in your life.

janaus · 06/05/2016 22:13

Thanks everyone. My journey began 8 long months ago. I decided to stay with H after I discovered he had cheated. Things are ok, he is treating me well. But it is such a roller coaster. Then when my counsellor wondered if he may be narcissist I needed to know more. A lot of thinking to do.

OP posts:
wallybantersjunkbox · 07/05/2016 08:59

If it's something the counselling has brought up, it's something very much worth digging deeper into.

Unfortunately there are very few NPD people who would admit they gave a problem. So it's very difficult to work around that.

And never go into counselling with one.

When I found my husband on Adultfriendfinder the first time, we had a marriage counselling session through the military (his employer). She came to the house, sat in the living room, he held my hand as I cried and poured my heart out. Told her all these wonderful things about me. I really felt "wow, finally we can get somewhere together"

After she left he closed the door smiling at her happily, and went apeshit. Don't EVER make me do that again, now everyone knows my f*cking business....etc etc

I was astounded. And devastated. It was all fake.

mickyblueyes · 09/05/2016 11:27

Have you kept your suspicions to yourself that he maybe a Narc?

mickyblueyes · 09/05/2016 11:28

By that i mean have you at any point suggested to him that your counsellor has suggested he portrays narcissistic tendencies?

janaus · 09/05/2016 14:35

No, I haven't mentioned it. Not sure, just a few things, centre of attention mainly.

OP posts:
mickyblueyes · 09/05/2016 16:51

You might be best to keep it that way...keep reading and researching, sounds like you on the right track speaking to your counsellor.

letting on that you have your suspicions might make the situation worse. I think it''s called 'Narcisisstic Rage or Injury'

mathanxiety · 09/05/2016 20:07

ThisIsTheRightTime -- my heart bleeds for your son. My own youngest DCs (in their teens) are in a situation where their opinions are only now being heard (still with no guarantee that overnight visitation might permanently stop) after a visitation arrangement has been operating since 2008. There was an incident while they were with exH one weekend last summer that they managed to communicate to me and I called the police.

exH took me to court afterwards seeking an order of protection against me, filed a motion of contempt, and asked the post divorce judge to write up an order instructing me never to call the police while my DCs were with him unless I was actually present to witness whatever abuse I called about. Preposterous of course, and the judge threw that request out. He is a lawyer and is willing to stand in a full courtroom at a motion call session showing himself to be a vindictive arsehole. He has no self awareness, and believes he is 100% right 100% of the time. His main argument in favour of the motion of contempt was that I had jeopardised his job by calling the police. Never mind that his three (so far since our divorce -- the latest is the third) motions of contempt have all carried with them the threat of jail for me and loss of livelihood. Never mind what an order of protection against me might look like on court records that any future employer could check...

The upshot of the case (after we were ordered to family therapy) was that a Guardian ad Litem was appointed to represent the DCs. The process involving the GaL is ongoing -- no report has been presented to the court yet, but we are all keeping fingers crossed.

Is there a similar officer of the court available to you? (i.e. a Guardian ad Litem who acts as a lawyer /advocate for the children).

ThisIsTheRightTime · 10/05/2016 19:02

mathanxiety, I'm touched by your kind words and it is always comforting to hear from those who are suffering similar anguish.

I saw my lawyer today which is always a pleasure as she understands the children's plight, strongly wishes for us to get them out of their current situation and, equally importantly, has seen straight through my husband from early on although neither of us have used the term 'narcissistic' openly with each other.

Your dreadful story testifies to the fact that such people will stop at nothing to destroy their victims. They are relentless and to try to understand their warped mindset would serve us no purpose. I am so sorry to read of the struggle and suffering you have all been through. There have been many times when I wondered if I would make it through alive. I understand that might sound overly dramatic and of course I have not only survived so far but grown stronger. I think the constant destructive lies and the total lack of empathy towards his children are the worst to bear for me.

My son was heard by a judge prior to the initial court hearing and was represented by his own lawyer. That is why my husband sprung joint custody on us all the day of the hearing; it was to serve as punishment for us all for daring to stand up to him. "He isn't doing this for his children", my lawyer told me sadly, "he's doing it to hurt you". And seeing my children's panic-stricken faces on hearing that they were to be more frequently with their father than before was indeed very painful. The judge did not give him joint custody but instead we are saddled with a long weekend and Tuesday evening to Thursday morning once every fortnight. It's exhausting, a terrible solution and the new solution judges are granting fathers regardless of their ability to look after their children properly.

We have been ordered to undergo mediation by the judge - just my husband and I - and my therapist has been helping me to prepare for this ordeal. Fortunately I have learned to remain calm on the outside but I struggle to remain lucid when his manipulative thought process ties my mind in knots.

In the meantime I will continue to amass evidence in the hope that we may lighten the visitation rights. My husband has bee violent on two occasions with my son. My lawyer urged him to file a complaint but I was too afraid to put my son through the ordeal in the knowledge that he would have to see his father days after going to the police station. We did notify the police however and have been told that the next time, if next time there is, we MUST report him.

bluemaid · 10/05/2016 19:50

My mother's a narcissist and as a consequence I avoid any contact with her now (luckily she lives in another country) and I must have been quite damaged as a child, still battling with some of the issues. I also regularly seem to attract this type of personality at work, hobbies etc. They can smell I've been there before. Luckily I'm getting better at sniffing them and giving a wide berth - but not before I've 'fallen' for their charms first so it's a big disappoint every time. The big question is whether my husband is like this too or not. He is Mr Jekyll and Hyde. But he seems to think I'm often behaving like my mother which makes me wonder whether I'm one too, I have inherited some of this behaviour from her which comes out when stressed... Confused

mathanxiety · 10/05/2016 20:03

Please report, even though there will be repercussions. Narcissists go to great lengths to avoid being exposed as abusive. Calling the police will most likely trigger an episode of narcissistic rage.

My own exH managed to ignore the clauses in our custody agreement that called for an annual review of visitation, and also the only one that convinced me to sign the agreement, which was a paragraph naming a mediator to whom we should go if there was ever a dispute or a sore point. There were many elements of our agreement that turned out to be not worth the paper they were printed on, sadly. The only thing that made a dent in his teflon (so far anyway) was that police call.

I struggle to remain lucid when his manipulative thought process tie my mind in knots.
That is so true. Quicksand springs to mind.

ThisIsTheRightTime · 10/05/2016 20:28

Thank you mathanxiety. Your words have not fallen on deaf ears.

Another pitfall of coping with a narcissist is just being too plain scared of standing up for oneself to any degree. It's ridiculous but I feel like a rabbit blinded by headlights on a very dangerous road.

I'm thinking this mediation will probably act as a catalyst in my head at least as I am setting myself the challenge of openly expressing the unacceptable things he has done in a hopefully calm and collected manner. I don't know what will arise from this act of courage but I need to prove to myself that I can do it. Also, my lawyer told me today that I must speak of the children's suffering.

ThisIsTheRightTime · 10/05/2016 20:32

Yes, bluemaid, the charm is so seductive, isn't it?

Please, don't convince yourself that you have your mother's disorder. MyI husband would often tell me I was just like my mother, or just like my brother...simply because he knew it was exactly what I least wanted to hear.

ps My family has no Narcissists to boast of, fortunately Smile

wallybantersjunkbox · 10/05/2016 20:45

Will you be ok in Mediation? I really worry with a narcissist and the charm offensive.,

When we had to see a school psychiatric counsellor for DS, DH started with the earnest love and care patter, father of the year etc. (Never paid a penny for his son, had to force visits at the beginning) They are very clever at mirroring the behaviour they think others want to hear.

I sat there overwhelmed. Then something in me shouted "No". As we got up to leave, I asked the psychiatrist for 5 minutes alone and closed the door on him. I quickly explained his army medical diagnosis (narcissistic sociopath) and how I was scared to enter into any sort of mutual meetings. Otherwise id never have gotten my point across and the best result for my son.

Hope it goes well for you. Flowers

mathanxiety · 10/05/2016 22:28

I sat in marriage counselling in similar 'rabbit in the headlights' fashion. I had had ample warning of the sort of mental gymnastics he was capable of but still...

Then we had family mediation, one result of the latest bout in court. After the one and only joint session with the DDs, myself and exH, the therapist took me aside and apologised that she hadn't been able to protect the DDs enough from the verbal abuse he hurled at them. She took the unusual step of contacting the judge directly to tell him there were problems that were outside the scope of normal family therapy where parents and children can work out stuff like common or garden communication issues. Hence the Guardian ad Litem.

Gather your wits as best you can, and don't be afraid to completely change the subject and say what you want to say. You don't have to try to answer every little detail your ex brings up. You can take the initiative. You can dictate the flow of the meetings.

mathanxiety · 10/05/2016 22:30

It is perhaps best to try to (subtly) provoke your H in a mediation session because then his mask will drop.

wallybantersjunkbox · 11/05/2016 09:44

That's true math, when my ex started with his bullshiit, I asked simple questions to drill down to the actual facts and detail.

It was all bullshit and he ended up tying himself in knots and looking stupid.

But there is obviously a risk of revenge on you for making him look less than perfect, so you have to prepare for that and cover yourself.

It's a f*cking nightmare, truth be told.

Forewarned is forearmed so the more you anticipate the stronger you feel in those situations.

mathanxiety · 11/05/2016 22:41

Yes, there is a risk. However, there is also the chance that he will take a step too far for his own good. A lot of abusive narcissists put a good deal of energy into making you think they are untouchable, above the law, nobody would ever believe you, etc. This is almost always not the case, even if it takes a while to pierce the armour and expose them.

Imbroglio · 12/05/2016 08:24

If I've learned one thing its that people with narcissistic tendencies believe their own lies point of view 100%, even if the facts don't fit or their version changes beyond recognition.

They can also be very charming, and very convincing. Yes they may trip themselves up eventually but be prepared for other people to believe them. That part can be very upsetting when you are finally in front of someone who you are were looking to to sort the mess out.

BertieBotts · 12/05/2016 08:43

Oh I am glad to see math and Garlic here. :) you are in good hands OP. Living with and leaving (if you want) a narcissist is a strange and surreal experience.

I think 1 in 100 is about right. Not so common that it's normal but everyone likely knows one or more. It's just unfortunate if you get yourself entangled with one close enough to become their 'supply'.

Since I have learned to recognise them I have realised I've known three.

LadyTrevelyan · 12/05/2016 09:10

Eh left after 17 years a few years ago and I received so much support here. I am firmly convinced eh comes from a flaming nest of narcissists!

I was only after he left I started reading further and it was a scales falling moment, followed by more and more. What I do find infuriating and also quite amusing is his stunned moment of comprehension when he realises I have told him "no".

He called last night to say he is now free this weekend and wants the DC for the weekend. He would arrive 5pm Friday and return Sunday at 6pm. Ok (statement not question). They will need swimming stuff and could I get DS hair before as he likes him to look smart.

"No" I said and offered no further information.

It felt good.

ThisIsTheRightTime · 12/05/2016 20:04

I'm simply popping in to say thank you for your kind and insightful words BertieBotts, Imbroglio, mathanxiety and wallybanter!

I'll be taking your thoughts in to mediation with me tomorrow from 9.30 to 11.30am.

Wish me luck.

mathanxiety · 12/05/2016 20:33

Yes they may trip themselves up eventually but be prepared for other people to believe them. That part can be very upsetting when you are finally in front of someone who you are were looking to to sort the mess out.

I have had that experience and it is the most frustrating life has to offer.

ExH has been trying to convince a judge in post divorce motions that I am alienating the DCs from him. He has waged a long campaign, going back about 7 years. I have defended his various motions of contempt myself. Most recently, an incident while the DCs were at his house caused me to call police, and sure enough he responded with a motion for contempt of court against me alleging interference with his visitation rights, and also a motion for an order of protection against me, again alleging interference and seeking the protection afforded by such an order against me. I've been fighting both since September of last year.

Finally, at one of the hearings, the judge agreed to my suggestion that we go to family therapy. The therapist called the judge after our one all-family session to say this was a case she was not prepared to handle. The judge had been lambasting me all along since September for the fact that my family was in such a shambles, nobody talked to anyone else, etc., and the hearing when he referred to the therapist's remarks was no different. However, he also on his own initiative at that hearing appointed a Guardian ad Litem to represent the DCs.

The GaL's interim report was presented verbally (and perhaps in writing, though if it was I did not see a copy) to the court this week, and he started by stating that usually in his long experience of seeing families where nobody wants anything to do with one parent, and nobody has a relationship with that parent even after age 18, it is a clearcut case of alienation by the other parent. He then stated that having talked with all the children who were reachable by phone that this is emphatically not what has been going on in our case. I could have hugged him. The judge apologised to me. exH asked to speak, and in open court stated his cock-eyed version of our family life and the cause of the breakdown of our marriage, throwing in the fact that he was hospitalised for mental health issues and that I was to blame for them. The GaL listened intently. The judge listened and appeared to squirm a little in his seat. I suspect exH's contribution was a massive shooting of himself in the foot.

Bringing up in open court his MH issues is hugely significant. I was told by my own divorce lawyer during our divorce proceedings that I could not refer to that because it is unfair to stigmatise someone who had or has MH issues, or use the fact that he sought treatment against him -- and I can see the case for holding back, in general. However, I could not convince my lawyer that in exH's case, his MH issues directly affected his capacity to participate in normal relationships, caused his explosive rage (mentioned by the GaL) that all the DCs find terrifying, prevented him from accepting that he has an effect on other people (he sees no problem screaming in a child's face for fifteen minutes and then a few months later objecting to family therapy for that child on the basis that she is a very sensitive individual), and caused his fixation with his narrative in which I am to blame for every single one of his problems and all the problems in our relationship, etc, etc. He takes no responsibility whatsoever for his role.

So now we are all heading to 'family reunification therapy' at the suggestion of the GaL, but we will all have initial individual sessions with the therapist (who will be chosen by the GaL). I have a theory that the GaL is trying to dot all Is and cross all Ts in case exH decides to appeal a judgement on renewal of overnight visitation that exH is also fighting for. However, he may also be hoping that the therapy could prove useful for the one DD who is left having to engage in visitation (at the moment she goes to dinner with him two weekend nights).

The battle continues. But it felt so good to hear that apology from the judge and to hear the GaL speak so unequivocably. Finally, someone cut through the bullshit.