The silent treatment

[SeventyNineBottlesOfWine]

I hope someone can give me some advice or find some way to help me stop feeling so wretched about all of this.

I have a male friend who I've known for over ten years.

When we have a disagreement over something, he will convey his displeasure by ignoring me and not interacting with me at all for weeks, yet will carry on as normal with all our other friends.

This latest time, he has not spoken to me for over two weeks. I tried acting blase about it and still made attempts to communicate all of which were ignored.

Last night he finally contacted me to tell me he was annoyed about something I said and didn't feel ready to converse with me yet.

After two weeks of being made to feel completely worthless and invisible, I responded to him by telling him that many times he has also upset me by the things he's said, but that I will always make a point of discussing it with him and have never just shut him out.

He seemed to see sense as he has now text me to say "This is ridiculous, let's meet up for coffee and sort this out"

However, I'm now left feeling unsure as to whether I want to sort this out.

I got no sleep last night and have been feeling very upset and anxious about it all for 2 weeks.

It's not the first time he's done this and I'm not sure that I want to be friends with someone who will go to such great lengths to cause upset to me by actively ostracising me for such lengths of time.

What would you do in my position?

It sounds like he knows exactly what he's doing to you, then, which is even worse. I think you have a choice: establish new boundaries for his behaviour, if you think he will respect them, or else let the freindship go. Allow yourself to grieve it, if you need to. You have done nothing wrong.

Be prepared for him to not accept your decision either way, and for him to try to hoover you up again (badger you, promise to reform, etc... &c) if you seek to break it off. He's manipulative and abusive, and this woud be in character.

Revolting piece of shit. To put it succinctly. Or even more succinctly, narcissistic.

ie he makes you pay when you show him up (or that's how he sees it). And boy does he make you pay. Then when you are a grovelling mess he deigns to take up with you again. Just so you know: don't DARE compromise him on any level at all.

Fuck that. And your other friends sounds rather self-interested - if your friendship with the shit folds, they'll have nowhere to go to socialise. Fuck that too.

It's not you, it's him/them. He sounds narcissistic - or extremely sensitive ego - and may be so blinded by himself that everything/one else is second and required to facilitate the Great I Am at all times.

Ime of shit/toxic parents, I have made some abysmal choices in friendships - I chose what I was used to. I still make shit choices sometimes but I recover much more quickly. Tbh Seventy I just keep going: on to the next. Yes it hurts but I know I keep dipping into shitty dynamics because of my history.

*Alley, no I don't have deeper feelings for him than friendship and have often had to explain this to him.

One of the times he gave me the silent treatment in the past was after I told him firmly that we would never be more than friends. This was about 4 years ago now.

Plainjanine I do feel he knows how this will affect me, yes. Our other mutual friend has said the same too. She said he knows how hurt I feel when he ignores me.

Springy How do you deal with the hurt when the friendships end. I struggle a ridiculously huge amount with this.

I know your question was to Springy, but I think counselling is the answer. If you find the right counsellor they will help you process your feelings of loss and low self esteem.

And do check out the Stately Homes thread, you'd get a lot of support and insight there.

Here's an approach you could try with the other friends:

You could explain that you've had to tell him more than once that he is never leaving the friend zone. He is having trouble accepting that and sometimes kicks off in weird ways towards you. You have to stay away from him for his own sake, you hope they can support you and you can stay friends with them.

Soon you will find out if they are worth keeping as friends.

It is genuinely weird to stay close friends with someone after they've made a move and you've turned them down. It sends massively mixed messages and is a little cruel.

Btw, I agree with Attila that quality is much more important than quantity when it comes to friends. If you invested the time and emotional energy you've been investing in this abusive man into other friendships instead, you would soon reap the benefits.

It is not mentally healthy for you to be around him. You know this, hell, he even knows this. Imho, you sharing your past of your father's silent treatment dynamic gave him the tools he is using against you. In future, I would shy away from presenting any dysfunctions from your past, just saying. (An ex used family information I confided in him against me. The first time he did it, I knew the relationship was not going to be a keeper.)

I also worry that I'll lose our mutual friends. They were his friends before mine and they seem adamant I should forget about it and move on.

None of these people have been true friends.

It is a conspiracy to keep you available to him for his narcissistic supply. If they were true friends, and saw someone emotionally abusing you so thoroughly--would they really be so dismissive and tell you to hang in there? No, they'd tell you to dump his ass in no uncertain terms. He has somehow persuaded them to function in a role for his benefit...so they can what? Yes, bask in the glow of his galactic awesomeness that transcends and eclipses all earthly existences. The three together are an organism that is a parasite feeding on your self-esteem. Your angst is their entertainment.

It is telling that the two friends say "oh that is just the way he is". They are abdicating their own individuality and allow themselves to merge into being an extension of the Great Ego. They put up with him because they are not the target of Ten Thousand Cuts. Just know that a narcissist will not treat everyone the same way. There are categories of people for certain uses. But they will not let you move to join their position in this dynamic, also a clue or a bit of a red flag. It probably isn't the friend's choices...it is the Great Ego's Global Template.

This request by friends to "forget and move on" has probably been prompted by the Great Ego. He wants you to not trust your own brain and to thus rely on his to become a psychological extension of him. Yet you use your own brain and in his presence and while engaging with his brain . You tipped the delicate balance of his psyche when you pointed out his hypocrisy...I don't doubt that did "hurt" him. Any criticism to a narcissist is can be processed as the most ultimate personal attack on their very existence. (For example: A quietly spoken correction is processed as shouting at them.)

On the other hand, understand that this is just so much bullshit too...His hurt is another tool to use against you to shame you. Blanking you is retaliation/punishment because that reasserts his position to one of superiority/you subordinate.

You have done very very well in setting the "just friends" boundary. This has probably been a challenge for him to defeat. 4 years on, and intermittent girlfriends too, wow. It is good that the intermittent girlfriends validate your boundary.

Erase him and the organism. Before he erases you.

Re the mutual friends who want you to make up with him, is there any chance he is telling them that your reaction to his behaviour is over the top and that you are the one in the wrong? My sulky, silent treatment friend would do that. He would minimise his own wrong-doing and say things like 'oh x is being a drama queen' or 'x really really really pissed me off by doing ....'. I'm not sure if it was because that was what he actually thought was going on or if it was just to make him feel better about his actions, but he had some very believable lines if you didn't know both sides of the story.

RunRabbit Are you saying you think I was cruel to him to remain friends after he told me had feelings for me?

We'd already been close friends for 6 years up until that point. When I told him I didn't want anything more than friendship he ignored me for months. He then got in touch again and told me he wanted us to remain friends and had moved on from these feelings.

He has had numerous girlfriends since then.

AnotherEmma Thank you. I think you're right and counselling would really help me.

Andtheband I think the role of our mutual friends in all this is what is upsetting me so much too. They've witnessed time and time again how he has treated me, yet still seem to band together and tell me I should remain friends with him, that he's a lovely person but just a little mixed up and that we have a great friendship.
I really care about the mutual friends. I really like them and the people they are, yet they explain away his behaviour all the time as just him being how he is.

He once took huge advantage of my sister. She has learning difficulties and had just ended her relationship with an abusive ex. I was supporting her throughout.

She is only in her 20's and he is approaching 50

I confided in him how concerned I was for her and that already men had been using her and taking advantage of her due to her vulnerability. We went out for my birthday and he went into the toilets with her whilst she was drunk.
Then back at my house they were all over each other. I told them I'd had enough of it and told him to go home.

I spoke to him the next day about it and told him how upset I was. He talked it all away as being "mutually consenting adults engaging in harmless fun that hurt nobody"

It did hurt my sister though. She thought he was interested in more and was left feeling deflated when she found out he'd only used her.

Welly It wouldn't surprise me one bit if that's what he was doing!

"Took advantage"? How drunk was she? If she has learning difficulties and was drunk, I doubt she was able to consent to sexual activity.

Non-consensual sexual activity is otherwise known as sexual assault. It is illegal.

How could you still be friends with someone who sexually assaulted your sister?!

Oh Seventy he is absolutely ghastly. Every new post, he sounds worse and worse. Your poor sister he is a predator.

AnotherEmma She wasn't extremely drunk but was definitely drunk. He explained it all away by saying she came onto him first- which she did. This was noticed by myself and our mutual friends who were also there that evening.

I was cross as I told him he was in a position where he should have stopped it, not gone along with it.

AlleyCat- Yes, Predator is exactly the right word for this bloke.
Can you see, Seventy? A weakness is identified and he pounces. You divulged your father's silent treatment...bingo. And not just once but over and over again. Your sister is vulnerable...Target. That is just so disgusting what he did! This does not in any way reflect the behavior of a well respected academic, does it? He is fake, through and through, nothing but a randy dog posturing behind a facade of lofty superiority. That she started it is no excuse...just a green light go for him. Very shallow. And please do notice the ready excuses for his bad behavior. Always a justification on hand without regard to the effects on anyone else.

You are concerned about recovering from losing these """"friendships""" , Seventy... I don't think folks have ever been harmed by overwhelming senses of relief.

I do think it is unkind to hang out and act all close when you know he wants more. Even if he claims to be over it, you know he isn't, so it's not nice.

But actually that doesnt matter any more. He has treated you like shit so you should drop him like a hot potato.

It is daft to stay friends with people who push you to accept shitty behaviour.

I'd cut the lot of them off and spend my time and energy finding different friends. Nice ones who have your best interests at heart.

Tell him to get to blazes

There is no 'forget it and move on' with people like this, and there is no 'mixed up'. All there is, is a next time, when he treats you the same way.

Don't let there be a next time. You deserve so much better.

Sorry if I sound harsh but I'd have binned him at the point of him hurting your sister I'd have lost the plot with any man doing such a despicable and criminal act!

RunRabbit I don't know that he wants more now at all. He hasn't said anything since the time 4 years ago.

One of our friends suspects he might.

He has had lots of girlfriends since and also been with many, many women since and not said a word to me about any feelings he has for me.

However, you're right in saying that none of it matters as I'm feeling that I no longer want to be his friend anyway.

Baconyum I should have done this. I went along with what he was saying and also what our mutual friends were saying as in "that's just what he's like" and I should have trusted my gut instinct. I was disgusted by him that evening and so angry.

I think you're much better off without him and the other two tbh!

What a shitty bunch of people. He's the worst by far, but none of them are worthy of being your friends. Walk away from them all (and your mother while you're about it) and stick with your one true friend (which may not seem a lot but is more than some folk have) and your son. If you clear out space in your life, there's room for more genuine people to come in.

I would cut him off but without drama and he seems to thrive on that. I wouldn't meet for coffee. I'd text and say 'I've realised we're not really suited to being friends so let's leave it at that. I wish you all the best' and then block his number. I'd just sit back and wait to hear from the others because my guess is you won't, now you've served your purpose for them. But better people will come along for you.

It does hurt, no question. It would hurt anybody but for people like us it hurts enormously. Because all the other losses and relationship failures are all banked up, still sore.

Emma is right that counselling really does give you a safe corner to grieve - grief for the love you should have had.

It is through (long term) counselling that I have discovered without a shadow of doubt that I didn't deserve to be not-loved, not-valued, not-cherished. That it was ALL their stuff, none of mine - how could it have been, I was a CHILD!

I also have a faith where I know without question I am completely loved and completely loveable; as well as comforted when my sore heart gets another bash.

Keep on keeping on. Just keep going. Although these losses hurt and I wobble to varying degrees for a while afterwards, I just keep going. Not ignoring the pain but knowing it's not the end of the story. You deserve to be loved, valued and cherished.

Can you see, Seventy? A weakness is identified and he pounces. You divulged your father's silent treatment...bingo. And not just once but over and over again. Your sister is vulnerable...Target. That is just so disgusting what he did!

This.

He's horrible, a truly horrible person. You seem almost blind to just how awful he's being.

Can you see, Seventy? A weakness is identified and he pounces. You divulged your father's silent treatment...bingo. And not just once but over and over again. Your sister is vulnerable...Target. That is just so disgusting what he did!

This.

He's horrible, a truly horrible person. You seem almost blind to just how awful he's being.

I feel the need to jump to your defence here. ime, adult children of toxic families have a devil of a job working out the goodies from the baddies. It's the perpetual wail that it is so hard to tell the difference - and some really gross people can get through but at the same time we quibble about the smallest thing. Etc. Sadly, this is a legacy of disordered parenting.

don't feel bad is what I'm trying to say

Springydaffs is exactly right, I've gone the other way, I don't trust for a long time, I'm very cynical (compounded by having chosen a shit husband and father to dd). I don't make friends easily (don't get me wrong I'm polite and friend-ly but I don't trust/confide till I've known someone a long time).

In my case it's been I think my thought process if I can't trust my parents I can't trust anyone, they're the 2 people you should be able to rely on to love and support and do what's best for you. My father abusive twat and mother enables.