Do dads that won't pay maintenance care about their children?

[donners312]

Just that really, I have posted a few times about my STBXH.

I would be interested if there is a way to see that men who won't pay do care and love their children as it is very hard to live with the fact that they really just don't seem to care?

Happy seriously why on earth should your dps ex's partners income be taken into account unless YOURS is too?!

What Bacony said

I m amazed at the people who expect the RP to pay for all the living costs of their children and think that child maintenance from NRP should only spent on gifts and days out for the child .

So mum pays for the roof over their heads , rent, mortgage , insurances, travel, running a car, petrol, childcare, food, utilities , CT, clubs and activities, school uniforms, trips, all school costs , phone , pocket money.

While NRP and his new partner complain that " she doesn't even spend the maintenance on the kids " and she spends her own money " buying clothes and getting her nails done " .

Some of the comments on this thread are unbelievable .

Someone unthread said something about 50/50 care. If a RP would be happy to have this with the non-RP, regarding disadvantage in careers/earnings etc.

What do you mean by 50/50 care? I know for a fact my ex would jump st this. But it would still be down to me to do all the emotional work, clothes buying, medical appointments. Because he is Busy. He has Important Meetings. And I have a dead end job. I have my Dd far more than our contact agreement says, because she's home whenever he has a holiday (3 weeks so far, another 3 weeks later this year) or a date. Or fancies a night out. I can't arrange stuff like that. I have to check childcare first. This Wouldn't change if he had 50/50.

I'm never going to get back the opportunities I've had to turn down in the last 10 years. My earnings capacity has been screwed.

But hey, yeah. Let ex have 50% of the time, with me still doing the grunt work with our Dd. Wouldn't help me at all.

I love my Dd so much. I have made my choices freely. But hell, I'm bitter when I haven't been on holiday for 7 years and scrabble to make ends meet. When I can't treat my Dd/myself to something nice and her dad pretty much does what he wants.

there have been comments about frittering money away. Women spending maintenance on themselves.

From the outside I prob look like I'm doing ok. I have a flat, car, job.

As mentioned before I've not had a holiday for 7 years. I get hair vouchers for bday/xmas. My nice work clothes were bought before I had Dd: these are topped up/replaced on eBay.
I've been saving up to decorate Dd room.

I don't have the money to fritter and but if I wanted to treat myself to something, what's bloody wrong with that?!!!

Close friend's dh didn't want to pay maintenance to child with his ex because why should he be paying for the mum to buy new boots? My opinion on him changed that day and will remain so forever. Sad thing is these men convince their new partners of the same opinion and my friend came from a life of poverty where the dad not only didn't pay maintenance but would literally steal the money her mum did have from working/benefits etc.

It sickens me.

My ex claims he does but hasn't paid me in 4 years. Even when he was paying me, if he couldn't see the result of his money eg clothes, shoes (who buys £200 of clothese and food monthly) then I was obviously pissing it up the wall and going out raving He couldn't understand that his maintenance was a contribution to the larger flat I needed/higher food bill/higher electricity/school dinners etc. He claims he earns nothing now as s/e for 18 months yet apparently is getting a solicitor to fight me for custody. Oh how I laughed.

Thank you for that petition Vertigo. I have signed it and shared it but we're a long way off the 100,000 signatures. If everyone on this thread could sign and share then that would help.

Too many people fall for the bitch ex story. Who is rearing these men and women with these vile attitudes towards innocent children and their financial support? Disgraceful social norms and socialisation to behave like this towards innocents.

Do they care? No. No they don't.
My father ducked and dodged his paltry maintenance payments all our childhood- he'd do things like pay later and later each month then try to skip a month. We lived in poverty until my mother met my stepfather.

My father could afford it but chose not to pay. Why? Who knows, because as soon I was 16 I stopped seeing him. He didn't give us love, time, affection or material support.

He recently suffered a couple of family losses and I've had his first grandchild- cue him tracking me down and giving me a highly revised sob story down the phone. And can he see his grandson?

No, he cannot.

Parenting requires resource investment. Investment of time, effort, love, support and physical resources (housing/money.) someone who dodges all those does not get to call themselves a parent.

I doubt there are any Mums looking after the children (what 80% of the time) who contribute 16% of their income towards the family and get to keep the remaining 84% for "me time"!!

This nails it for me. And I agree that many men see the money as going to the ex rather than the kids. Having children at home is expensive. If I didn't have my DCs, I could have lived in a one bedroom flat anywhere. Instead I needed a certain number of bedrooms, had to heat a bigger house, etc etc. My ex did pay the minimum maintenance but it was nowhere near the real cost of two children - and we had a modest lifestyle.

I know many NRP fathers who love their kids with every bone of their being, but resent paying maintenance.

Too many new partners with Happy 's attitude - they want the cash to be spent on them and their household, not on the DCs of the previous relationship. (And it is often the new partners making much more noise about this than the NRPs)

Howtodo
I think 50 50 would have me stressed. He was completely incompetent when he lived with us. He's more incompetent than ever now he doesn't.

If he was able to be an adult and step up to it then I would happily do 50 50 and focus on myself.

As it is, he doesn't. Not for himself or his children. Just found out that on his EOW contact, he doesn't get out of bed till gone 11, gives my CMPI DD yoghurt and ice cream and is smoking in the house.

Thank god they don't have to be subjected to him 50% of the time.

How does that work then Happy? Your DP's ex spent his maintenance contributions on holidays, spent nothing of her own money on the children and they were raised using thin fucking air and positivity?

Took a good 10 years for my ex to stop being ridiculous about maintenance. We split when my son was two. In the begining he had him from 12 on a saturday til 12 on a sunday. He purposely gave me maintenance on a sunday as in his words "I want it spent on our son, not your saturday nights out". Didn't take into account how his son was fed, had clean nappies, babywipes, baths etc. Or the fact that I had one day in 7 with childcare, whilst he was in the pub every other night!! Free to come and go as he pleased! Some men make me laugh.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/126895

Thank you for the link vertigo nun!! Please sign the petition quick and easy to do.

Not many people break up and remain actual friends and I see maintenance issues such as thus as a form of punishment due to hatred of ex. This clouds some NRP's perspective and it's the only way to seek revenge so they do it.

I'm very interested in BetaDads comment and I know men can get accused of mansplaining on here but is it not worth pondering?

If an individual has a lot more assets before marriage than the other then marrying is a risk to the person bringing much more financially to the table.

I knew one man who didnt pay when his ex messed around with access, it was the only way he had to try and see the kids, so he did care, a lot. He'd tried legal methods, but they were never enforced, there were no consequences to her ignoring them.

I know another man who paid maintenance unfailingly for years. His son went to a 6th form near his house and he became rp. His ex refused point blank to pay cm as she saw it as him "taking away" her son, and why should she pay him for the privelige.

I do sometimes think that there must be some nrp desperate to be rp, surely that's why people have children, to bring them up. Being forced to pay someone else to do the job you want to must be quite hard, especially as usually the nrp has no choice in the matter.

If my patner kicked me out, said i could only see the children eow, and i have to pay 25% of my wages for them to do it....

Just another pov.

It doesn't have to be eow though.
The fact is the rp is normally that because they are the ones who have made the Career sacrifice so far to become the main carer.

I've seen desperate nrps been given the chance at 50/50 and they fail badly because they never had to do any actual parenting in the first place.

Another point that you hear over and over again is the sudden resentment at the rp (usually the mother) for having given up her career or for having lower earning capacity. Funnily enough, this resentment only seems to make itself known after the divorce and not during the marriage.

Personally it is a reason why I have never given up my career - but I am in a fortunate position of being able to afford childcare and in a career that gives me some flexibility in terms of hours. I do really think that women should make it clear how difficult it is being the primary carer and the person who by default is expected to drop everything to look after the children. Alternatively I think that we should resist that role as much as possible and expect fathers to take equal responsibility too. Perhaps then it might be appreciated how much your earning capacity drops when children need looking after, and nrps would see it is not just about paying maintenance for children's food and clothes!

ExH pays, under duress, a paltry £19 per week for 2 kids. Had never contributed a penny towards anything else like uniforms, trips, etc. Says he pays enough when they are with him every 2nd weekend.

All because I dared to leave him for having multiple affairs. I have a job, the kids don't go hungry but it's a struggle sometimes.

Feeling love is fairly unimportant, what makes a parent (and a lover for that matter) is how they show love.

I think this is brilliant. My parents both loved me, but neither wanted to put their hands into their pockets and give me any money when they split up - I was 16 and they were both quickly loved up with new partners. It was hellish, to have to go through mums holiday snaps with her new man while I didn't know how I was going to pay my rent. Dad did give me money sometimes, but I could never rely on it. Yet I know they loved me, but they wanted to put themselves first.

If I ever remind mum of those times, she practically puts her fingers in her ears and goes 'lah, lah, lah'. She is an old lady now and needs me - what can you do? Love is complex.

tippy - by 50/50 I mean exactly that. Full joint care and responsibility with no maintenance. I'm curious as to whether women who aren't happy with the maintenance they get would rather this set up? We suggested this to DPs ex as she talks constantly about how hard her life is compared to ours as she never has any time to herself and has to work full time and then look after the kids (we have 30/70 with her at the moment.) when DP suggested it (in a polite and nice way via email) her response was "don't even think about fucking taking my kids away". Tbh I understand that response as id feel the same but I don't whinge about everything I do for my DS to my ex!

I was a poster who talked about my DPs ex spending the maintenance on herself. This is because she clothes the DCs in old, ripped school uniform and says she can't afford new stuff, whilst taking numerous trips herself and spending £000s on her hobbies (yes it's an expensive one!)
We have DCs 30% of the time and have bought them each 6 full sets of school uniform - apparently this isn't enough.

It's also work remembering that in a lot of cases the NRP ALSO has to pay out a lot for the kids:

• a house big enough for them to have a permanent bedroom.
• a safe car for them to travel in
• extra heating, water, gas for the 30% of their lives they're here.
• full set of clothes, coats, shoes, boots, trainers, party shoes etc for at our house.
• bikes etc for at our house
• cost of hobbies which fall on "our" time.
• bday presents for 50% of the parties they go to. ( assuming 50% fall on "our" wkends.)
• 30% of the food they eat.

We don't begrudge paying ANY of that! Heck we are very happy to but my point is that just because the NRP doesn't officially "live" with the kids they are not suddenly exempt from all the costs which come with raising kids.

Of course I think exW should be able to treat themselves as well. It's just hard to see them treating themselves when the kids are going without.

It does seem like our situation is pretty unusual though. All the stories of NRPs who give nothing are an absolute disgrace.

Happy - if your husband, the DC father has issues with the level of care that the DC mother provides to their children the right way to deal with that is for him to try and increase the amount of time he spends with the DC and the amount and quality of care they receive.

He needs to make a financial contribution to his ex if the children live with her. He is not being penalised.

If what you claim is the truth it is the DC who are being penalised by a neglectful mother and a father who is more concerned about 'his' money and less about their mother's neglect.

I've seen desperate nrps been given the chance at 50/50 and they fail badly because they never had to do any actual parenting in the first place.

Yes when I was studying my family law module I had a research assignment on the proposed shared parenting law (now actual law).

Australia have had this in place for a number of years. The evidence shows it reduced clarity, increased conflict, negatively affected children's mental health and in the vast majority of cases failed after a short time and reverted to primary carer/non-resident carer after a short period.

"If my patner kicked me out, said i could only see the children eow, and i have to pay 25% of my wages for them to do it...."

newname, the reason this so seldom happens to women is that the vast majority of women are in fact the primary carer and can easily demonstrate this fact

so the way for a bloke who worries about this is to invest himself in caring for his children from day one, long, long before anyone starts thinking of divorce, to accept that he may never fulfil his career ambitions because dealing with dc's chickenpox was more important, to be the one that arranges doctor's appointments and remembers birthdays and knows how to deal with the night terrors - in a word, to make himself indispensable to their physical and emotional wellbeing,

you know, the way women do...

That's interesting offred. We have talked about shared parental leave for the baby DP and I are expecting and when I spelled out what that would entail DP doing he was agog!

Sadly I think DPs DCs would be better with us but it would be me who would have to do the childcare as my career is much more flexible. I'm not willing to do this which i do feel bad for but equally having lost a lot of my earning power by putting my career back for childcare with DS I don't want to do it for the Stepkids. I've thought about it long and hard but can see a lot of pitfalls in the future of going down this road so I have told DP if he wants to see them more (which he does) then he needs to be the one to find a way to adjust his working pattern.

*I've seen desperate nrps been given the chance at 50/50 and they fail badly because they never had to do any actual parenting in the first place.

Yes when I was studying my family law module I had a research assignment on the proposed shared parenting law (now actual law).

Australia have had this in place for a number of years. The evidence shows it reduced clarity, increased conflict, negatively affected children's mental health and in the vast majority of cases failed after a short time and reverted to primary carer/non-resident carer after a short period.*

I blame male socialisation, this tends to blame women and encourage agressive behaviour in males including condoning agressive control over providing financially for their child.

There needs to be a social norm looking at these abusive misogynistic parents (95% of users of CSA are female) who victim blame as we do drink drivers. They and their enablers are very immature in the power and control (toddler) ego state. They need to grow up.