Do dads that won't pay maintenance care about their children?

[donners312]

Just that really, I have posted a few times about my STBXH.

I would be interested if there is a way to see that men who won't pay do care and love their children as it is very hard to live with the fact that they really just don't seem to care?

I think the title is a stupid way to phrase this question.

I can't stand the stories of bitch exes and money frittering.

It's not just about money though, is it?

My ex pays the Csa minimum (private arrangement). He has our Dd about 1/3 time, plus half the holidays.

However, I also pick up all the emergency childcare. I do all the emotional work, uniform buying, clothes and shoe buying, homework etc.

If my ex wants a night out. DD comes home. Ex recently went on a 3 week holiday. I was informed after it was booked, Dd was with me the whole time. Tough if I'd had any plans, these had to be cancelled. I had to juggle school drop ofs and pick ups with my work (25 miles away)

When we first met, we were in the same job, earning the same money.

I only took 6 months mat leave, but 15 years later, ex earns over £70k. I'm on £27k. Why? Some is probably luck, but i am actually more professionally qualified. The main reason is that I've had to stay in jobs I didn't like, because of the hours (was p/time). When made redundant, I had to take role/s that were local. Or lower paid because of the hours.
I've had to give jobs up because I couldn't get home in time for the after school club.

I don't begrudge my dd anything. I appreciate the regular maintenance that my ex pays. But be under no illusions that this has some how allowed me to live the life of Riley and be frittering my money away. My belt is very tight.

My ex loves our Dd. He pays maintenance. Yay.

I totally sympathies tippytap it is outrageous what these men get away with and you are right paying or not paying maintenance is just one aspect of the lack of care these type of men seem to (not) show their children.

I am sure you do not begrudge your DC one thing but it is deeply unjust how pretty much all the care falls to (generally) the Mums whilst the dads climb up the career ladder and can take any job they want without the restrictions that fall to the RP.

and like you say woopy doo! they pay a minimum amount of maintenance and think they have done you a favor!!!

You've done great though!!! he might have more money but i bet he doesn't have the relationship with your dc that you do.

My ex pays no money since leaving and categorically stated that i would be more than capable of being able to support my (yes my - I magically created my own sperm and impregnated myself) child if I spent less money on handbags and moved out of the big house.

The big house is rented and I've always paid for it, after having to change schools be cause I couldn't afford international school after losing my job, my son has lost his father, his school friends, his family life and quite a bit of his mother who now has to do everything and has such little time for pure fun.

The last thing I want to upheave now is his home.

My ex is making me suffer because I didn't chase him and beg him back when he walked out after finding him on hookup websites advertising himself for love in the afternoons. So I have taken away his nice cushy life and therefore I must pay for that.

He doesn't think about the fact that I am trying to keep one thing secure for my gorgeous little lad.

And others are right about the sacrifices the resident parent must make. I had to demote into a lower position with less salary when I found another job. Because I need to be home every night on time. Because I can't leave the county I'm in (he threatened I was kidnapping my son) I took the job I could. Because I can't move too far away for the 4 days a month visitation I took what I could get.

If he can't do holiday cover I have to pay for childcare and care for my son in the evenings. If he can't do weekends I know he simply won't turn up, so I can't make plans on this basis.

Doctors appointments, school appointments etc all have to be taken out of my work time. He sacrifices nothing, money, time or effort.

Selfish, selfish, selfish bastard.

And so what if I took myself off to a spa break with my own money one day in the very far off future? 28 days a month I can't leave the house after bedtime. I sit here alone or spend the evenings doing chores.

Those four days off a month were also referred to as " my entitlement " once. Four days where I sleep in until 9am, and do all the big jobs around the house.

Lucky lucky me eh?

Surely men should also realise that spousal maintenance and child maintenance are two completely different things? I don't understand the attitude that child maintenance should be less because of the rp's financial situation. In an ideal world children should be in exactly the same financial position whether or not their parents are together. If they benefit from the rp's increase in earnings shouldn't that be in addition to the amount their nrp is supposed to contribute? I just can't understand ever giving my children less than I possibly could.

I do have some sympathy with people feeling resentful at having to pay spousal maintenance in certain circumstances (not all but some!) but that is a completely different thread!

I agree with Wally and Offred.

My exH tells me how much he loves his children but that doesn't extend to putting himself out for them and he loves to whinge and moan about paying maintenance even though he can well afford it. In my view his "love" is pretty shallow.

His new W (for which read one of his OW) has been abusive verbally and physically to my DC. 2 won't go any more but will see him if he comes to my house. One will go occasionally. The weekday evenings always have to be at my house because he CBA to take them out and he chose to move too far way for them to go to his so I have to have him in my house which I hate. His view is I should just "go out then" - what and sit in the pub round the corner until he goes? no thanks.

Our oldest has SN (which I discovered too late run in his family) and I am liable to get called into school conferences or find he has been suspended at the drop of a hat. My second DC has chronic teenage stress and self-esteem issues and I tend to get called by the school to to pick her up "now please". They are apparently incapable of seeing the stress related IBS as anything other than D&V which requires 48 hours exclusion despite my complaints.

I started off in the same high flying career as my exH, worked like a dog and made good money for years. That is not compatible with being a single parent. I was made redundant and at that point my father had just dis, my oldest had been expelled from school and the world was falling apart (it was just shortly after that when I found out about my exH serial affairs throughout our 30 years together) so I chose to do work which I enjoy and which is worthwhile and fits round being a single parent, but is not very well paid. I do have an understanding boss who if I say I have had a call from the school and there is a problem will say "go now" and frankly that is worth its weight in gold.

My exH got a really favourable financial settlement in our divorce because he dragged it out for over 2 years and I knew it would go on for another 2 if he did not. It was so favourable that when I had cause to go over it again recently because it looked as if we were going to end up in court again my solicitor sucked her teeth and said "My God!".

Of course he has now rewritten history and it's all moaning about how he was legged over and how we live the life of Riley on the maintenance he pays (we don't). Yes I get spousal maintenance as well as child maintenance - and I don't feel guilty! He is where he is now in career terms because he sucked me dry. He invests nothing in terms of time or emotional care and never has, has never been to a single hospital appointment or case meeting, never taken a child to a doctors or dental appointment, never supervised homework, never come back from work early to look after the children even when I had to work and therefore I had to be the one to fail to step up at work (wonder why I was the one who was made redundant then?) - I could go on for hours.

I love my children but my life story for the past X years is one of putting them first because their other parent never has and losing out on career and life opportunities as a result. I spend every penny I earn on my children and all my time and attention go on them. I have zero time and inclination for another relationship.

If I could go back I would not have chosen this life, but given that is how things panned out, the least he can do is pay his fucking maintenance as far as I am concerned.

My Ex pays £5 a month through CSA..He doesn't see DS and doesn't care.. I will continue to collect the £5 a week because I at least know he is alive..

I think no matter what stories you hear...You are unlikely to here a NRP say... I don't pay for my child because I think my needs are more important than my child, or I prefer to piss my money up the wall than support my child.

Not quite the same, but I fancy the opportunity to share that my XH is an arsehole.

He's the one that had sex with prostitutes, not me.

I didn't include his family business in my settlement proposal. Took about £100K less from his pension than I could have done. I do not ask him for any maintenance - he earns more and has our child less than me, but we both earn a good salary and we both house her. My choice, but he would have to pay several hundred. I let him have 10 years to buy me out of our house (he's living there - I wanted the continuity for our child). Incidentally - the deposit and all bills were always paid 50/50, it is in every sense half my house.
The settlement was so skewed in his favour (cos of the business) that my solicitor warned me the judge might actually want to speak to me.
He does pay 50% of childcare fees - about £100 a month.

To his new GF he said, direct quote, "I couldn't be without in my life, even though I've had to pay to keep it that way"

Some men just enjoy playing the financially fucked over by a bitch ex card.

I nearly started forcing maintenance, just for that comment.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/126895 petition to encourage debate on child maintenance.

Children aren't pay-per-view though

And this still wouldn't address the disadvantage women have simply by being the primary carer. Yes, I know that some men are primary carers, but the vast majority are women.

I've lost count of the number of times I've been told how 'lucky' I am. 'Lucky' that Dd father bothers to see her and pay maintenance. Lucky? He's her dad ffs!

I've lost count of the number of people who tell me how great he is for seeing her and paying maintenance.

No one has ever told me how fucking great I am for looking after my Dd. Becaus I'm a woman. A MUM. And that's what we do. Apparently.

I've said many a bad thing about my stbxh. And his terrible choice of OW.

But I always counter it with but he's a decent human and he pays for his children.

But by god does he moan about it. I've managed (almost, touch wood) a decent and favourable divorce settlement. Around 75% of assets.
But at what cost to my career, my future and my potential?

I'm stuck in a job I'm bored to tears in, no potential to rise ranks or get a pay rise.
I'm stuck claiming benefits (tax credits) to pay child care.
I'm stuck indoors 11/14 nights without being able to attend my hobbies or date anyone new.
I'm stuck with all childcare emergency and otherwise risking disciplinary at work
I'm stuck in a house which is slowly becoming more decrepit with no possibility of improvement and God forbid a hole in the roof type situation.
I'm stuck at all parental situations, homework, clubs, parents evening, choices, future plans and he is totally unaware of their existence.

Too fucking right he pays. Through the nose in my opinion as his life is a breeze in comparison.

Money may make life more pleasant (and apologies for sounding facetious in the face of poverty) but it sure as hell isn't the saviour of all stbxh evils. The emotional impact of his lack of compassion is just as emotionally devastating to the DC.
Their bellies may be full and their shoes fit but their hearts and minds are trashed.

I'm interested to know how many of the RPs who point out they've had their careers and earning potential held back because of being RP would go 50/50 on access to give their careers a better shot.

When I got divorced my ex said I shouldn't have any kind of spousal maintenance claim or more than 50/50 of assests as even though id massively compromised my career by going part time for DC care, he said that was "my choice". At the time I was to scared to argue in case he went for 50/50 access of DC.

Because of that I never talk about how being a RP has held me back as it's a choice id make over again and again to be able to be with DC.

On the other side we hear from DPs ex ALL the time how hard her life is as a RP but when DP broached 50/50 contact (which would address a lot of the things she complains about) she said very clearly "don't fucking take away my kids".

DDad loved me, but was convinced that any money he paid to DM would somehow be frittered away by her, or spent on my baby half-DB. He was totally oblivious to the amount of money it takes to bring up a child.

OK, it was 30 years ago that he stopped paying maintenance (and pre-CSA) but the maximum amount he paid was £11 a week. £11!! Even with inflation this was a derisory amount. And DM regularly had to pursue him through the courts or withhold contact to get even this.

I get nothing from my XH. He's been gone for a year and has refused to pay for our 2 DC. In mediation he was asked about child maintenance and said he didn't earn enough and the mediator just said 'ok'. He is self employed, claims he only earns £7k a year but has two cars, smokes, has a very active social life. He sees our DS every second weekend and I have been told not to change that because it interferes with his life/plans.

I recently contacted the CMS because I am sick to death of him just shrugging off his responsibilities. In a recent solicitors letter it was pointed out that he has paid no CM and be tried to claim the money his parents have paid for our DD to go on a school skiing trip as him supporting her.

So the CMS tried contacting him & he kept putting the phone down on them so they made a default assessment based on 2010 tax info which was totally unrealistic. When I suggested that he should ring them and give them his current financial info, he said 'well they're not getting anything anyway'. The 'they' he referring to is the CMS in his head but in reality 'they' are his children!

I earn decent money, I pay for everything and have done for many years so I think he doesn't see why he should have to pay for them.

This is the man who cried when we split up 'don't make me leave my children' and now sees DS every 2 weeks and has no contact in between those times, not a phone call, nothing! It makes me bloody sick!

I shouldn't be surprised though, he didn't pay for his first DD wth his ex and she ended up getting a charge on our house (which I paid off). At what point will the sand he has stuck his head in suffocate him???? And breathe...........

ABetaDad these younger men who you have spoken to who swear blind they wont have kids.......i take it they are celibate or have had vasectomies because they are the only ways they can be sure because of course they would take responsibility for it if thats the way they feel and wouldnt leave the onus for it on potential girlfriends right??

OP - yes my DHs ex DID spend all the maintainence on her holidays and new cars - the children barely saw any of that money. She did not even bother to clothe them properly.

And now as grown adults they resent her for it. And thankfully now the maintainence has stopped so have the ridiculous holidays.

And yes - why the hell shouldn't the mothers financial situation be taken into account?
Are you seriously telling me that women should not contribute anything financially to their children?

do you seriously beleive that the cost of all the expenses for the cc was covered by what ever amount you dh had to give for maintenance??

I don't see what relevance the mother's income is. I MAY get £65 per month for both my DC, that's not for each DC. So where is the rest of the money coming from for their housing, food, extra curricular activities, clothing etc.? Me, that's where!!!

So he is giving a minute amount of his income (because he lies about his income) while I spend the majority of mine.

I realise each situation is different but if the CMS decided my XH should not have to pay very much because of my income that would be wrong.

Happyat40 the mother will already be spending her money on the children. Compare what rps pay to the 15 percent ordered by the cmo it's pathetic.
Who on earth thinks it's normal to spend 15 percent of your money on your kid?

Yeah if ex paid mainteNance I may be able to afford a holiday from it.
That's because I'm already pay I g for everything from my money fgs.

So happyat40 if she was loaded do you think your dh shouldn't pay?
It's ridiculous.

Oswin- without doubt I know the circumstances of my step children for the past 14 years infinitely better than yourself or any of the PPs.

I have 2 DC of my own - I know how much they cost - and I will tell you categorically that maintainence was not spent on my step children.

Erm and no I didn't say DH shouldn't pay if she was loaded -
Just that the income going into her home should have been taken into consideration so it is fairer.

Why should my DH be penalised ?

At that time women could walk out on their children and the CSA actually only went after men !! The whole system is a farce.

Happy I can't take you seriously. Your DH's XW earns £50k & it's your DH's maintenance that pays for her lifestyle? riiiight

Those pp's who are 2nd wives (or equivalent but not officially married) saying rps income should be taken into account are talking rot! I don't know ANY NRP's either on here or irl that are paying anywhere near enough maintenance to account for half the cost of raising a child unless there's 50/50 residency (and even then the majority of clothes and schools costs etc are covered by the main carer - the one who covers sick days etc usually mum)!

I live in a cheap part of the uk, on a tight budget and even then a rough calculation of my dds 'costs'

at 1/3 of my basic household costs though half probably more realistic as she's a teen ditto for those with preschoolers needing full time childcare

rent
heat
council tax (inc water as we're in Scotland)
transport
clothes
shoes
food

comes to £350 PCM! So my ex should be paying £175, he pays £90!

That's NOT including
haircuts (hers I cut my own)
school trips
school uniform
broadband (though I probably should have included that as essential for school work)
phone
birthday and Christmas (he's much better off than me and gets her cheap crap with no thought put into it!)

When we lived 5 mins away he saw her 'every weekend' made out he was a wonderful dad but did bugger all with her the whole 6 hrs he had her!

He's now not seen her at all almost 3.5 years, last called just before Christmas!

He's never been to a parents evening, asked for her school report or medical info, looked after her when she's sick.

And absolutely agree also with the RPs new partner is NOT financially responsible for their stepchild (though many do accept that and caring responsibilities and are often better parents than the non NRP's I've several friends whose bio fathers have been offended at them choosing to be walked down the aisle by their stepfather even if they haven't seen bio father in years and he didn't pay maintenance! Arses!)

New partners of NRP's who resent maintenance being paid are almost as bad as the financially child abusive NRP's!!!

Happyat40 how is your dh penalised by paying maintenance