What causes so many DMs and DMILs to behave so badly?

[lborgia]

The older I get the more years I spend on MN the more baffled I get about whether something just happens to some women that they all start to display these weird behaviours.

So here are my musings - I'd be really interested if anyone has professional, academic, or anecdotal info to share.

1 - This is entirely a product of older generations being abandoned in prams to scream and scream so they got fresh air. This leaves a gaping hole in their development that leaves them feeling constantly unloved and a bottomless well neediness . (This is my favourite theory and entirely made up and without scientific basis).

2 - Narcissism - are the parents who we now perceive as having narcissistic tendencies the ones who then become unbearable mothers of the bride? And then difficult gms? Have there always been this many Narcissistic people or is it on the increase? Because of a change in parenting practices? Because of the abandonment above?

3 - Have women been raised, until relatively recently, to be pliant and put their needs after everyone else in the family and at some point the resentment builds to a point of no return? Does something happen when kids have gone. .there's room for the mother to start, I don't know, change?

4 - the menopause/importance of looks/getting old. Don't have a whole sentence for this, but something about losing relevance? Looks? Being invisible?

So I realise that this may sound ridiculous, as it is only based on my own experience, and a long interest in mothers/in laws of my friends, but it seems rampant, and makes so many people unhappy.

Ignore me if I'm being bonkers?!

My mother is the way she is because she was raised by a very controlling, fearful, manipulative bully of a father. She has grown up to be a very controlling, fearful manipulative bully. Yay me.

My partner's mother adores him and desperately wants to be a part of his everyday life. I understand this, as I adore my son and can't imagine not being this close to him forever. So I try to be tolerant of her neediness and relentless flood of emails and phone calls. She initially thought I wasn't good enough for him - dirty used goods single mother, no-one wants that for their precious little snowflake - but has since come round.

When I had my DC I tended to do things the same way as my DM (except for leaving them to cry). Like they had Clarks shoes, and we sang the same songs to them etc, so it feels familiar.

When SIL had DN she did everything differently. She had startrite shoes but only until she was 2, then she always had "fashion" shoes that DM and I strongly disapproved of. She wasn't dressed the way I dressed mine, she didn't eat what my DC's ate etc. Not that her way was wrong, it was just different. DM said my DC felt like hers, but DN didn't.

My DS got married last year. My DIL refuses to come to any of our family functions, even though DS goes to hers. I found myself getting really annoyed that I had to endure my ILs, even when I really didn't want to, yet she gets to opt out. Perhaps this is a wide-spread attitude amongst loony some MIL?

So of the OP I would say possibly to 1, 2 and 3, but you are way off with number 4. Losing relevance and status possibly, but looks? No.

The Mil/Dil relationship is a fascinating one. A bit like a forced 'friendship' neither of you sought.
My own experience is that my Mil (and fil) are so completely wrapped up in DH's sister's and her children's life that she speaks about little else. Anything we relate that DS has done/likes/been has to be 'bettered' by Sil's children or more often ignored there is nothing to relate it to them.
Sil and her DH's marriage is portrayed as idyllic.
It's quite odd to experience.
They have decided that DS will leave school at 16 as he has a stammer and be lucky to get any kind of job (despite being really quite high achieving) while sil's two will rule the world or something!
Needless to say we are not there often.

So many posts on here have me nodding my head.

In my case, my MIL isn't an evil woman, she just has incredibly different priorities and expectations than I do, and I think is truly baffled by the way I do things. The more I diverge from the traditional housewife role,( I work! With children! I have a cleaner!) the more she pushes to love me - I think she wants to show me that in her opinion, I'll find happiness solely in my children, like she does.

The trouble is, her children are in their late 30s now and don't need the same things from her as they did when they were little. Part of me feels so sorry for her as I think she genuinely doesn't understand her 'role' any more.

I might be wrong, but believing this has stopped me from poking her in the eye with a spoon on more than 1 occasion.

I think also that the children of a lot of controlling parents are "perfectly behaved" when they are small and this feeds into their idea that they are right to be so controlling and that other parents should take a leaf out of their book.

I think number 1 and have done for many years. There's something about child rearing practices of the time that's created a certain amount of closed off emotionally or really hyped up and screwed up middle aged people. I've never heard of anyone else thinking or saying that though so just kept it to myself. Not sure why we aren't the same though given that we were brought up by these people. Maybe it was somewhat diluted or external society becoming much more child centred that has allowed us to contemplate doing things differently. I also think age has a lot to do with it. If I had had children in my twenties I do think I might have been a similar kind of parent because that's all I knew. Maturity and external influences have helped me a lot.

Too much female competitiveness in terms of career, men, how you dress, how you parent etc a huge range of things

Too many women who treat their sons like demi-Gods hence no other woman will be good enough for them - again linked with competitiveness female vs female

In life I've certainly found this to be true

For my MIL child raising and harassing her small animals is her only 'thing'. Whole family go on about her nurturing capabilities. She sees no reason why her opinions on children should not be considered fact and SIL and my opinions to be bunkum.

Horrendously annoying.

She is also weirdly childlike and absolves all responsibility for her life onto FIL. Seems off topic but I think this is the reason why she gets her knickers in a twist about her grandchildren.

sanityclause - yes to your whole post. For some women children is their ONLY THING. The only time they had responsibility and decisions to make. Then being the Granny watching other women do this (especially now they have careers as well) feels really bad to them.

"I found myself getting really annoyed that I had to endure my ILs, even when I really didn't want to, yet she gets to opt out"

My MIL used to one minute complain about having been treated like a servant to her husband and the next, complain about her DILs not cooking and ironing for her sons.

This is not a new thing. In fact I think we tolerate the bad behaviour less nowadays.

In my family we had one true crazy narcissistic / manipulative grandma from older generation and one warm type. Both born in first twenty years of 20 the century.

Another cousin had a mentally abusive granny. Both the selfish Mil/ grannies whose legacy I am most aware of came from insecure backgrounds involving poverty, societal violence, religious/sectarian extremism, forced emigration, male-dominated families with too many children. Then maybe the only way to have some control is via your children? Or as my cousin said "It was no wonder the aunts were mad!"

Should be 20th century.

My mother turned nasty as soon as the menopause hit. Didn't help she drinks too.

"This is not a new thing"

Definitely not a new thing at all. Before they were completely decimated, some Australian aborigines used to have a taboo on talking to one's MIL. When I was a child all the comedians would get a cheap laugh with MIL joks.

I used to feel quite smug that for 18 years I had a lovely MIL, if anything perhaps a little bit too over the top in trying to be perceived as not interfereing.

I put it down to the fact that my dear partner was a self sufficient middle child who could be relied upon to look after himself whilst his siblings are so dysfunctional and infantilised she had plenty of issues to keep her occupied/worried.

For the last 18 months or so DP have had some 'issues' and the change has been monumental. Its like the eye of Saron has moved from siblings to us. DP has had a stereotypical MLC, doubting our relationship, got drunk and snogged another woman, following the script beautifully.

However, according to MIL it is all my fault. I am supposed to be thankful he told me, I owe it to him to forgive him after 18 years of good behaviour , I have no right to ask what his personal and private thoughts were. She thinks I have coerced him and made him admit to thing he didn't do, she wont have it that he has done anything wrong.

Both her and BIL (who has the emotional range of a spoon) have told me I am mentally ill, abusive and manipulative and think he would be better off without me.

I think she just can't cope with the thought that her golden boy has cocked up its almost an assault to her personally. I fear we will end up having to go NC, which will be so sad for our children and her only GC.

Quite often it's because dils are controlling and possessive. Don't forget that!

My first XMIL was lovely, I would never have had to post anything about her. The second XMIL was a PITA - controlling and bullying, but not narcissistic. For example, she bullied her way onto the hospital ward when I was in labour. She changed all the cutlery around in my drawers so it was "the right way" all holidays had to be spent with them etc

My own DM is a narcisstic monster. She has abused me since the age of five ( until I went NC as an adult. She was been that way her entire life, it's nothing to do with being a DM or a MIL. She was expelled from school at 14 for being a shit stirring tyrant, and the head teacher told her "You are a nasty piece of work and I hope I never set eyes on you again as long as I live." She has destroyed most of DBs relationships and is very over involved in his marriage, to the point that he is dependent on prescription and non prescription drugs to get through life with her.

I do think certain events trigger bad behaviour - anything that means attention or control is seeping away from them ........

I'm convinced by the baby boomer theory. Of course there are exceptions but they are in general "entitled and absolutely sure that they are right, all the time".

In my experience this generation doesn't bother with their grandchildren much either, or they stop bothering if things are not exactly as they want them to be.

When I was a child all the comedians would get a cheap laugh with MIL jokes.

Apparently the reason for this is that because of the housing shortage after the war, many young couples had to live with PIL.

Obviously, there is a lot of scope for conflict in a situation where two couples are living in the same house, so the evil MIL was something lots of younger people could relate to (and see my points earlier about ageism and sexism).

One key cultural value in Britain, that has changed out of all recognition, was that all kinds of uncomfortable truths were not spoken of in the interests of maintaining appearances, group harmony and social hierarchies. Decorum was very important and someone who spoke out could find themselves excoriated for rocking the boat and causing trouble, even if everything they said was the truth. I think that social convention used to be imposed on people much more strongly. A lot of stigma got visited on people who didn't toe the line and women got more of this kind of control and criticism than anyone else.

(It is the mindset that let child abuse go unpunished, the reason a young woman who got pregnant without being married would be thrown out by her parents and called names by everyone, but the older married man whom everyone knew had got her pregnant would not get a word of criticism).

It is certainly true of my grandmother, who had a sort of existential horror of being the subject of criticism by neighbours or people in the village/chapel generally, even though she thought most of them were old nits. It was just ingrained-being shamed or shunned was the worst thing that could ever happen to you.

People were expected to be a lot more deferential to their elders and betters-both my parents (born pre WWII) talk about how unquestioned it was when they were growing up that you did as you were told and did not challenge people with greater status.

In families, I think it has meant that traditionally parents had more power over children, even adult children, and it would be very hard to speak out if they abused that power. You'd get a lot of approval for being a dutiful DIL and an awful lot of disapproval for rowing with your MIL, even if everyone knew she was completely dreadful. Women were more often the problematic parent figures because the home was their sphere of power and men left women to manage family relationships by and large. You didn't leave or disgrace your family and you were expected to be grateful to your parents, so those who were vile to younger relatives almost always went unchallenged.

We are at the tail end of that tradition really, which makes it doubly difficult- there are still parents and parents-in-law who have these ideas, but their children and children-in-law think very differently.

My theory is that social mobility had contributed. You're more likely to have met and got together with someone from a different mileu to you nowadays e.g. meet DP at university. He doesn't come from same background as you. His mother's behaviour is unexpected as you've never experienced anything like it.
In my experience, mils who are badly behaved are more likely to be less intelligent than their children/DILs and therefore more likely to apply faulty/childish logic in their thinking and interactions.

Good post, MyFavouriteClinton .