would you?

[hurtandconfued2016]

Just wondering my ex asked (more like demanded) me today when we where registering our daughter when he could see the kids again. Hasn't seen our son in a month and only met his daughter today (2 weeks old). I said that he couldn't take new baby away on his own I would need to be there whilst he is seeing her. He went mental at me and has now not bothered to make plans to see them tomorrow.
My question is would you give your 2 week old away for hours? I suggested going to soft play or something and we could rotate with the kids so we didn't have to sit near each other but he said no to that too..

So everyone I haven't updated in a week I had been having a good week until today... I received ex's lawyers letter and I'm livid!
Basically calls me a lier saying he didn't say I was disgusting. He said I had never voiced to him that I didn't want to go through his parents. He said the house hasn't been emptied. He said that I never told him of any concerns regarding leaving my daughter with him. He said that we never argued the last time he dropped me off (despite me having 2 witnesses). He said he doesn't understand why his new gf can be in my kids life as it's a committed relationship. He didn't say he has other obligations. I only gave him 2 hrs notice that I was going to need child care.
All of this and he then asks if we can reinstated contact at his parents with our daughter and me being present and that I am using my children as weapons to hurt him!
I was already having a crap day as my 2 year old was asking why he goes to dad's but baby doesn't and he didn't want to leave his sister.
To then recieve this has kicked me in the face!
So tomorrow I am going to my house I will take pictures of everything they have removed. I will be printing the time of call.to him the day I was taken into hospital. I will print the emails that I sent after he called me disgusting that is basically everything he said to me in the argument. Also all the texts that I have said that I wasn't happy going through his parents! I honestly I'm so upset and down right now that he has done this but I don't know why I'm shocked

Deep breaths. Yes, be methodical. List this 'points' and counter point them with the proofs/pictures that you have. Anything that is he lied/she lied simply reiterate your truth and if there are witnesses get statements for your lawyer. But be aware if the witnesses are your family the weight isn't great, same as if his family was backing up things he alleges you said, iyswim.

He can say what he likes. You know the truth. His lawyer's job is to 'present' what he tells him/her as factual because I'm sure HE's presenting it to him/her that way.

Contact your lawyer ASAP, I'm sure they've gotten a copy of the letter. Tell them you do NOT want to reinstate contact at his parent's, but also ask them what they advise to do in a way that will benefit what YOU want.

*what you want to set up as contact ways and means in the long run.

2 of the witness statements are my brother and dad but there is also one from the girl across the road who heard everything! His witness was his dad (who was in the car with the window up and music blaring)

The lawyer is saying mediation to sort this all out. I will be going to see her next week but I've sent through some letters and emails me and him exchanged backing it up. I also have my diary that I have been writing all the facts in too!

I couldn't go back to going to his parents not as they have both just lied for him as well! So to me the only thing will be a contact centre

If the lawyer says mediation, then I suppose that's what usually happens. I don't think it's a bad idea. There is 'shuttle mediation' where you and he don't have to be in the same room. The mediator 'shuttles' between you. May be something to consider.

Also, if you haven't, list ways that his parents may have made you feel uncomfortable (if they have). I guess I can see that on the surface; a visit between parent and child at a known relative's home vs an impersonal contact centre would probably be a more comfortable visit. The issue is whether or not YOU have to be there. I honestly don't think a judge would force a parent to be in a place they don't want to be (i.e. that you have to be present at his parents) but it can't hurt to show why you feel that way. But, if the children are safe there because his mum is there to 'oversee', it would be reasonable for a judge to say that visits should take place at their home without you present over a contact centre. At what point a judge would rule that regarding the baby, I don't know. Obvs if you're EBF it wouldn't be reasonable at all.

But it doesn't do to over-analyze things. You just gather your information and present it to your lawyer along with a plan that you approve of. Then let the lawyer take it from there.

Just a thought. If the visits being at his parent's are so 'acceptable' to him, why wouldn't visits involving the baby taking place at your parent's or even a mutual friend's be equally so? (Assuming they'd do it, of course). You'd certainly be more comfortable (with baby) at your parent's. I know that for him it's all about him being a huge coward and having to have Mummy and Daddy to protect him from 'big bad you', I just wonder what he'd say if you offered an 'equal but different' option.

Lies are always hard to read, try not to get too upset. Give your solicitor everything, when she writes back she can mention having witness statements, the girl across the road would be great to have. Keep copies of everything so you can take them to mediation if you need to refer back to them.

I don't know where you stand on him seeing your son at a contact centre, but the baby is certainly fair and reasonable.

Hang in there, you will have highs and lows but it will come right in the end.

Well when his dad and sister both picked up l my son in the past 2 weeks I have said hello to them both and been completely ignored! When they drop him off they are supposed to let me know Wether he has been fed or that but no when I ask I get no answer!!
With the visits being at hidden parents I was okay with them before until the last time when he wasn't very nice at my door. Him saying he can't stand to look at me and he thinks I would sit in a room now especially due to being in a lot better place with my mental health. With his parents it is obv they have made no effort what so ever with the kids since the last visit and for them to also go lie to the lawyer makes me even more uneasy being there.
A judge would say a baby has to be at least 6 months before they are taken away from their parents apparently this is what my lawyer has said. He also said that I said he was "good with our daughter" but failed to tell him this followed with when you aren't sleeping on the couch for 4 hours holding her and also that when he has her he ignores our sons needs!

He said he can't come into my home because he has been threatened (he won't tell me by who or when or what) with the metal friend thing. We don't really have any as when we broke up they all took sides Wether it be my side or his side. I also said that he could have seen our daughter in our family home but that wasn't good enough for him either because he doesn't want to go into that house!
I'm just hurt that he has barefaced lied again and then has the cheek to say can we reinstate contact at my parents? So I've just to go sit in their house with his family who have all made it clear what they think of me??

Ok well mediation will try to find a resolution so you make sure you stand firm. You would prefer the contact centre but you will compromise on him coming to your parents home. There are no other options as you have tried them and have proven not to be in yours or the children's best interest.

So he is still seeing your son? Treat both him and his parents with the contempt they treat you with, either through your solicitor or through the mediation tell them as they can't be mature enough to pass information on regarding the well being of your son - you will be putting a notebook and a pen in your sons bag where they can leave a note informing you if your son has been fed.

Rise above them and their over inflated opinions of themselves, if it makes them feel empowered to punish you by ignoring you then let them, you reap what you sow at the end of the day and if their dear son moves away you they would have shot themselves in the foot with you and access to their grandchildren.

Yeah he still sees my son one day a week. This is the thing so m using the kids as a weapon? Yet he reduces his days with him? I have given him 2 options to see his daughter but because it's not in his parents it's not good enough?

I am just livid I went and took photos of the house this morning got a statement off the girl across the road and printed all the conversations. I have also contacted my councillor to write a letter about the stress and the state I was in mentally and physically before I started getting treatment so that if he says well back in January she said I wasn't getting to see the kids I have a letter stating that I was not in the mental state due to all the stress caused. But even at that I never stopped him Seeing him back then either it was one day I stopped him and that was the day he stayed at the ow and was late to collect our son.

Sorry I've just come across this thread today and I may be off the mark about your updates but I think your trying to justify yourself too much to him.

I know it's not nice to read the lies he's said about you but ultimately it's irrelevant, you know they're lies you don't have to defend yourself or convince him that they are lies-fact is you're never going to convince him of that, he's writing his own narrative and in his story it's much better to paint you as the twat then admit to himself and others that it is indeed him who is the twat.

How I would deal with it personally is scrap taking photos and getting witness statements-that's just going to stress you out more.

Have your lawyer reply to his letter with the facts:
*hurt is offering you contact with child x & y on these regular days and times in a choice of a. Contact centre or b. At hurts parents home. The offer of contact taking place at your parents home with hurt present is declined due to the treatment of hurt by them and you in their presence which ultimately will impact negatively on both children.

*contact is offered supervised with the intention of building up to unsupervised with both children over a period of x amount of time to enable the baby to bond with you and to feel comfortable being away from her primary caregiver.

I think shooting makes some good points. He does have the ability to get in your head, doesn't he? But I don't think it will hurt to have evidence as to how he's spoken to you and refused to consider your wishes, though.

But keep reminding yourself that his 'truth' is not the truth. That a judge is going to look at the fact that children need relationships with both parents, not the bullshit that's been created around this situation. The judge's job is to determine what form of contact will be in the best interest of the children. Your job is to work with your lawyer to draft a proposal that is reasonable for both sides to present to the judge (or mediator). Focus on that. As far as continuing to go to his parent's, I do think you really need to speak to your lawyer ASAP. You don't want to be setting a precedent and have a judge say 'Well, you've been doing it so far, so we'll just keep on that way', iyswim. Talk to your lawyer to be sure I'm right, but I think you need to change your mindset from 'if I suggest (reasonable contact method) and he says 'no' I want the 'old way' that means I'm refusing him contact' to 'if I suggest (reasonable contact method) and he says 'no' that's him refusing contact, not me'.

I don't disagree with shooting but I do think some of this evidence may be important as there has been no financial settlement or agreement regarding the house and its contents which they have been systematically emptying. This has also prevented hurt from being able to return home after she recovered from her c section.

Also the evidence of the nastiness is relevant as it backs the claim that it is not reasonable to expect her to subject herself to that when there are other options, which she is happy and willing to allow.

The fact he still sees his son proves that hurt is not preventing his access.

The one thing that does concern me though with the arguing back and forth is the cost implications from the solicitors.

Shooting - I can see why you think that in a way I want everyone else to see that I am not the monster he has painted me out to be to all his family and friends. He has said I was emotionally abusive towards him and all this other stuff. I also want it so when my babies are older if they ask mummy what happened it's not just my word they have I have everything in proof and pictures. I will never push it in their face but if it does come one day they ask I don't want it to be just my anger and hatred that comes out I want it to be proof and factual.
With the contact until I feel he can handle looking after 2 children together then it will be supervised Wether it be by me/social services or a family member. Right now he has not shown me he can look after both of them.
Across - I stopped going to his parents after the last altercation because I didn't feel comfortable being around him after him saying I disgust him and that how do I think he feels having to look at me. So it's been nearly 1 month since he seen baby.
Yes I know I need to change me thinking I'm stopping him because all I have tried to do is make it legal and him be in their life. I mean I even invited him to be at the bloody birth!!
Iam- they said they haven't touched it I'm so angry about this! I went up and took photos of the bed dismantled in the corner the cupboards emptied my bathroom emptied of everything the curtains been taken all my shoes are in black bags! But no they haven't touched it!!
With the cost I don't actually pay as I get legal aid. It costs him not me!

It is upsetting when people lie about us but it doesn't matter what evidence you show them people will only see what they want to. Have your evidence in case you need it for the court or mediation, don't worry what his family or friends think.

When you think back to your first post in your other thread it's amazing how far you have come, be proud of yourself.

I'm not sure where you will stand legally on the issue of when you think he is ready to look after 2 children.

Iam - I think the evidence is for my own piece of mind to that I am not the reason the kids are loosing out time with their father and also so if it does go to court the judge can see I'm not the monster I have been painted out to be.

I have my times when I am proud times when I think about maybe they would be best if I wasn't here.

With the 2 kids legally it's min 6 months if I feel he is able to. That what a judge would say apparently

And those are good and valid reasons for the evidence.

With everything going on its hardly surprising that you would have down moments, but you really have come far. And you children would never be better off if you weren't here. You are a wonderful mother.

6 months min. That's good.

I forgot that he's only seeing DS at his parents now.

As far as what his family and friends think of you, realize that the Angel Gabriel could appear to them on a pink fluffy cloud and announce that you are not a monster and in fact are a loving compassionate person and they wouldn't believe him. It's the power of 'sticking up for your kin'. So don't bother trying to change them. In the long run they, and their opinions, are NOT important in your life. And you will have much more influence on your children than some random relatives or friends of his. Children are wise little buggers with a pretty good 6th sense of who values and loves them and who sees them as a part time duty! It's fine to have the evidence to show them, but in the end it will be your love and devotion to their wellbeing that will show them the truth.

Never think the children would be better off without you, love. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's their lump of a 'father' that they can do without!

My councillor thinks I'm doing great! She's so happy with the way I am she said even the way I walk I'm more confident then I was. I don't see the difference just yet bit other people are!
Well tonight he returned our son in the same clothes I sent him in yesterday. Despite me giving him 3 t-shirts 2 jeans and different shoes! All of that stuff is still in the bag and when his dad brought him in he never spoke 2 words to me.

He needs parenting classes! That's with 3 adults to look after your son. Lol - I think you will have to let somethings go, so long as he isn't filthy or starving of course.

Hope you didn't speak to him either.

Maybe next time you should give them a check list to fill out:

"Since it is apparent that neither you nor your family will communicate with me when you return DS to my care, please complete as appropriate and return with him at end of visit:

Has DS had dinner? yes no
If 'yes', at what time and what did he eat?

Has DS had a nap? yes no
If 'yes', when and how long did he sleep?

When is the last time DS had a nappy change? _ o'clock

Did DS have any injuries or illnesses that I should be aware of? yes_ no_
If yes, please describe below"

OK, I know that's a bit PA and I'm sure your lawyer wouldn't agree with it, but it'd be fun to do, wouldn't it?

I am - I know it's a nightmare and they want me to give the baby too? Well again when my son came home he was starving so I'm starting to think he isn't having dinner with his dad cause his dad was all dressed up in a nice shirt and stuff so I don't imagine he sat down to have diner with him.

Across- I actually laughed at this I am actually thinking this might be a good idea! It's that bad there was a gift in a bag and when they gave me it they didn't say aw there's a gift from xxx. Instead I text to say can you thank whoever gave the gift.

I am potty training our son today and man it's bloody hard!

I think you should put something in the bag, perhaps so as not to go all out to antagonise them you could simply provide the notebook I suggested, sort of like a contact diary.

Who was the gift for?

Ah yes potty training, that's one way to ensure your son gets a change of clothes. Lol

Iam - it was for the baby it turns out it is from the grans sister.
I know it's not fun we have had 4 accidents already! It's because the health visitor is putting him into nursery early. He is going to his dad's on Monday so I am praying he's better at this by then lol

I've always left mine later until they were very ready, although my son was more difficult/lazy. Does the nursery insist on them being trained?