Seriously thinking about NC with DH's side of the family

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

This is going to be long but think I need to post the background

I've posted previously about SIL's wedding. I have 3 DCs - age 3, 2 and 13 weeks. The oldest have just turned 3 and 2 respectively so still small.

SIL is getting married about 150 miles away on a week day. We have been told no DCs at the wedding. Mil has a difficult family background and her half-brothers children will be going however - albeit they are older than ours. I susir t ultimately that SIL will also permit her friends to bring small babies. I understand that it is SIL's wedding but I find it pretty hurtful that our children (who are actually her closest relatives) are to be excluded.

My parents are extremely supportive of us and will normally drop anything to help us out. Mil has form for being very difficult and has been very unhelpful at difficult times - eg looked after putt DS on the day of my grandmother's funeral (250 miles away) but refused to rearrange plans so I had to get out cleaner to come and look after DS (then 1 year old) as she had to leave at 5pm. The whole thing was horribly stressful and I still find it very upsetting to think about.

My parents normally drop everything to help us but normally go on holiday with friends around the date of SIL's wedding. They therefore told me immediately that they may be able to look after our DCs but that - in this instance - they actually won't cancel their holiday if the group of friends can only manage that date (they are all retired so tend to go quite last minute to get the best deal) and we should therefore get a plan B. I immediately highlighted this to DH and his response was - (massively fucking entitled) oh it's my sister's wedding. Surely they won't go away. I said they very well could and he should highlight this to his family now as we may not have any childcare and ultimately I wouldn't be able to go. Plus, I could very well still be feeding youngest DC. Really the only option would be to take someone to look after the DCs on site and I didn't even know if that would be feasible. But I was highlighting it now so that there were no amateur dramatics near the wedding if I couldn't go

Communication within DH's family is pretty piss poor so nothing was done.

At the weekend, SIL, MIL and FIL came ti visit and stay the night. SIL said something in passing about my parents looking after the DC and I said that actually they maybe away and there wasn't really a plan B. I said that I could perhaps ask my DS's key worker from nursery to travel to the wedding and look after the DCs but we would need to get him accommodation. And, in any event, I was uncomfortable about being away from my youngest DC even if I could get someone look after all DC at our house.

SIL told me that there were no rooms left at the hotel but if I got the key worker, he could perhaps stay at a local B&B. That she was having to lay £150 a head per guest and she wanted me to be able to relax and enjoy myself and also keep costs down - hence why our DCs weren't invited. I said that the best solution maybe to ask the key worker. And, if I did, would SIL like the DCs to be brought to the church (waiting outside during the ceremony) for a few photos as they would be in the area. Totally up to her obviously but thought she might like it. She said yes, but she was banning children from the church. I said I quite understood as FIL's brother's children had made a terrible racket during ours in the church (MIL insisted they were invited) and you could even hear the noise on the wedding video. MIL said she couldn't remember that but I said (nicely) that it was on the video. I also said that if my parents were looking after the DCs, they had also offered to bring them to the church (to wait outside) and take them home (a big thing as a huge drive) after if she wanted photos.

So - it was all perfectly pleasant and I thought the childcare issue was clear. More importantly, there was actually communication like normal people. DH then went to work in the morning and the DCs and I went out with SIL and the PILs for brunch - all perfectly pleasant. Nothing else said. I was slightly nervous about going out as the PILs had been invited to visit DC3 a few days after she was born and had been very late (with no communication). I was upstairs feeding the baby and DH had said something to MIL about it. She had started shouting and bawling at DH saying it was my fault and I was manipulating them and being very rude about me. I decided the best thing to do was pretend I hadn't heard and gloss over things. But, again, everything perfectly pleasant at brunch

DH then arrives home and asks me what I had been saying to his sister? I explained the position about childcare and said that I had highlighted this to him already but his approach seemed to have been that my parents would have to just cancel their holiday. That wasn't very constructive so I had highlighted things to SIL so she could make ab informed choice about allowing the DCs to attend in the vicinity and be looked after off site (pretty pissing annoying that DH could have mentioned it earlier so we could have got a room for them and carers at the hotel but now we couldn't) as ultimately if we couldn't get appropriate childcare, I wouldn't be able to go and with a wedding of 60 people, that would be noticeable.

DH then says that obviously I had a chip on my shoulder about FIL's neice making a racket during our wedding and that my parents were manipulating things by refusing to cancel their holiday (the irony after my grandmother's funeral and various other times that they have dropped everything and driven 300 miles to help us out after the PILs have let us down!). I susir t he had spoken to MIL on the way home.

I am absolutely fed up with this. I am fed up of rather than everyone talking civilly about things (as I tried to do) and resolve problems in good time, MIL then approaches DH behind my back. If she or SIL had a problem, why not discuss it with me at the time or the next day? I am fed up (and I think this is the crux of it) if DH not simply explaining that all I am trying to do is sort out childcare for the DCs (as basically he seems to have opted out of it and my parents - his indentured servants obviously - are to drop everything AGAIN to help out). Why is DH not able to actually support me (his wife) and make it clear - politely - to his family that if you have your wedding hundreds of miles away and don't invite your very young nieces and nephews, then yes, childcare will be an issue and that is not bring "difficult". It's a matter of fact. And, actually, if your "keeping costs down" banning your brothers children whilst letting others attend is actually pretty fucking hurtful

I actually don't know what to do. I've said tinDH that I think that actually everyone should just be honest and communicate clearly with each other now. So if he thinks my patents are "selfish"
and "manipulative" (the breath taking cheek!) he should say to their faces. Further, I will contact SIL and MIL and ask them if they need me to clarify anything about what we discussed. Further, another option is for me to not attend and look after the DCs which I think maybe the best option all round

I'm actually so so sick of this. I don't want to see the PILs again and I don't particularly want to see SIL again.

Should I contact them? Should I just decline the wedding invitation? I want to make it clear why

I also need to sort out the DH issue too

Gobbolino, I'm sorry but it feels like you'd rather be upset at MN than at your DH right now. Some posters have made remarks that you find hurtful, so it's not like you're without justification; but you are focusing on the hurt caused by randoms on the internet rather than focusing on the hurt caused by the father of your kids and your partner in life.

I think that cannot be too clearly stated.

The arrangements of your wedding seem sensible. It isn't quiet the same in this case but if it ends up how it looks planned then it will be great - everyone should be happy.

What is upsetting me on your behalf is the way that you have been put as scapegoat and that your DH has been driven to construct completely fictitious histories of conversations with you/SIL/MIL It isn't right. Whether your kids are 'wheeled in and out' (which will probably be ideal for them as weddings can be overwhelming for littlies) isn't the core issue.

I don't want to upset you any more, and I know you will get great advice from great people on here, but have a hug and take care of yourself.

I really don't want you upset, and I'm sorry that you are. I think everyone here is on your side and aren't getting at you, but are frustrated on your behalf. Sometimes from a distance the dynamics of a situation are much clearer.

The thing with your sister at your wedding is totally different. I'm assuming you didn't tell her her children were unwanted and that your mum and her DH didn't put her through an emotional shitstorm before that solution was arrived at. That's the difference, even if the outcome this time will look identical on the surface.

Please, look after yourself. You matter.

Sorry I upset you, Gobbo.

Please, look after yourself. You matter.

not - I initially just read the last two words of that sentence as "You nutter" .

Thank you, pert. And everyone else.

I am taking on board everything you say. I know that I need to be very clear when I Sudan to DH about this though (thank you, Toxic In Law book) so I dint want to be diverted into things that aren't true (ie DH you don't equally parent with the DC".) Because I do t want to divert from the true issues.

What is worrying me somewhat, is DH is normally a straightforward person. Hence why I have been X 100 as last night he genuinely seems to have a totally different recollection of what had happened when we had our argument.

I need to speak to him about this as this is the key issue.

I'm sorry if my last comment upset you Gobbolino and I am on your side with this (and I sometimes get carried away based on my own in law issues)

It just seems as if they're all discussing it and then bringing the decision to you as a fait accompli re: childfree/not childfree and lying in order to get whatever they want rather than including you in any sort of rational discussion about it to begin with.

We have a family wedding coming up. My partner is part of the bridal party. I too will be sitting fuck knows where with fuck knows who on the day, while he is off celebrating. I'll be the one keeping an eye on our child. It's a normal enough arrangement for us. He does the same for weddings on my side.

Its a couple of hours away in a venue that isn't really child friendly. I've one DC so its not too bad, other family with babies and wobbler toddlers might struggle a bit with the logistics. I plan to have a local sitter for the evening after the meal in the room upstairs but it will be 'me' on duty, not him. So, having a key worker there, if you decide to go is fine. Make whatever arrangements that suit you and your family.

When the dust has settled over this though, you do need to look a bit deeper and more objectively at the whole relationship with your DH and his side of the family. He comes from a manipulative, dysfunctional family, he might be the best of them, but you are seeing and experiencing how that upbringing has influenced him.

He dislikes visiting his family alone because he becomes their scapegoat on those visits, so by dragging you along he brings a decoy to throw at them. That is not nice or respectful, but I suspect he is conditioned to not even realise that. Go over to stately homes thread. Read the excellent threads in The Other Place where an OP in a very similar situation is navigating her and her husband out of the FOG. Read Toxic In-laws. Other posters are right - you focus on each situation to deal with but you are not tackling the bigger, harder underlying issue which is disengaging physically and emotionally from these dysfunctional people and their mindfuck games for good. It may get worse before it gets better, but its worth it in the end. Do you want this family dysfunction to be inherited by your DC?

Having a sitter there sounds great to me if you actually wanted to be there and your DH didn't suddenly have different recall manipulate and lie about the circumstances leading up to this situation and also try to demonise and attack you re money etc.

That's why I said that's what I'm most concerned about.

A lot of parents would never dream of leaving their kids ever, I'm not one of those! You can't please all of the people all of the time and I'm glad you posted to draw parallels between feeling the need to please your DH and his family and feeling pushed to please those in this thread. Very good self awareness there.

Based on that observation, as previously said, you can't please everyone so forget everyone else, what do YOU want to do? Would you want to be at this wedding if you won't be with your DH or kids and you don't like his family anyway?

No, you're entitled to say somethign like "things have gone very wrong in the whole way this has been handled, that this time it is enough. You're sorry about the wedding but enough is enough and you're not happy with the arrangements anyway"

"next time a major event happens there needs to be good communication between you two, you think both of you have learned, but that on this occasion you're going to stay home with the children"

Remember your grandmother's funeral and remember how your PILs and SIL have been with you - and your husband. You've been messed around very badly here and it's not ok. Making a stand in a pleasant way and emphasising that communication needs to be a lot better is taking action to show that you mean it - you won't be messed around.

ack. page did not refresh sorry. please ignore the post above, it doesn;t seem relevant now!

As others have said, take care of yourself, this has all been a stupid amount of stress especially with things going a bit difficult with your husband.

It is actually relevant once, I think, in that one of the thing that has me tearing my hair out is that none of them seem to communicate dure toy and clearly with each other.

MIL is also a complete know all but actually is quite stupid and DH seems programmed not to question her. Hence:

MIL: " no DC at the wedding DH (bar the chosen ones) as the hotel dies not permit children h Dee the age of 8"
DH: "Uh. OK".

Rather than:

"That can't be right, MIL. As you know, we stayed there with both of the children. Plus SIL has exclusive use so the hotel can't ban her child relatives. I'll call the hotel and check as childcare could be a real issue for us if we can't get something sorted"

Gobbolino, I have an idea about something you might impose in your home. It's very technically sophisticated - it's a whiteboard

When there is a situation ongoing (e.g. wedding, holiday coming up etc) note it on the board and make a sort of flowchart so that you/DH can merely look at the board and see what the state of play is.

e.g. Wedding > need to book childcare by DATE > asked keyworker (date) > keyworker confirmed (date) > paid keyworker (date)

The fact that the board should be big, central and very very visible is key. We have one in the living room and it is great for keeping on top of situations like this. There can be a rule that you draw the other adult's attention to the board and get them to confirm that what you have written is accurate, as soon as possible after writing on it. That way there will be no recourse for downstream arguments over content. There is also a rule against erasing what the other has written - no redactions.

I know this sounds OTT but I swear that DH smartened up his act sharply when I started keeping careful notes as above and making him approve them. It made it impossible for him to hide behind vagaries or maybes. It worked very well. Plus, you can get in the habit of keeping a photo of it on your phone (update every morning) so that you always have a copy with you and can send it to him for sending to family members

I've just re read the whole thread and am staggered at how things have turned around. Your DH has said really unpleasant things about / to you and slagged off your lovely helpful parents and is now being painted as some wonderful , caring man who just wanted to have his whole family at his sister's wedding but realised that you would need extra support innorder to enjoy the day . Someone who was slightly " confused " about the no- children rule .... sorry , wasn't confused , didn't want your feelings to be hurt by his family's less than welcoming approach to the idea of your children attending .

Wow.. ... he's good isn't he ! Not that he is alone in the ability to engineer this sort of " turn - around " so that he appears the good guy in all of this . Seen it loads of times , including with my own husband . Nothing wrong with that per se . I've managed to forgive ( although not forget !) although not without virtually ripping him a new one ! Just so he knew I was on to him . Wouldn't want him to think I was stupid or a pushover.

I think you should do whatever you want to do re the wedding and pay whatever you want to pay for a nanny , key worker , whatever. It's your money . Personally , if I went I would make sure I had a great time , lots of champagne , lovely food , child- free chatting / dancing etc( preferably with some good looking chaps ). After all , this is why your husband has gone to such lengths to ensure that you are given some " freedom " for the day .... so make the most of it.

His family sound nuts .. let him deal with them in the future .... his monkeys , his circus. BUT.... whatever you decide to do always remember what he said about you and your parents ... he said it ... It came out his thoughts and through his mouth.Only you can decide what to do / say about that in the future. Your marriage , your family , your decision. You've heard what others have had to say.... all trying to respond with help and advice, no upset intended . You have to take from it what you want.

I really hope it works out for you and the whole thing doesn't implode.

We're going to a similarly close family wedding this year (although our DC are definitely invited) but far away from home with no childcare. I've just relayed your scenario to DH - and he said "well if it was like that then none of us would go". As it is my IL does want DH on the top table - but they have done the seating plan so I will be sat with friends and my DC with DH within hollering distance so he can help out if necessary.

You can have problems with your parents and still be a good dad overall. He always thought that my patents would look after the DC (which they would have done excellently) so their care and well being (as he saw it) was assured.

Now he knows they can't, he's trying to get something in place that I'm happy with so it's not all down to me, if I chose to go

The commebts he made are not acceptable. I have made that clear to him. There cannot be a repeat of that. Generally when I make it clear to him that something is not on. He stops. So we've had no truest of the key thing. He used to leave wet towels on the bed. That's stopped. He's genuinely a nice man who tries his best to make me happy. BUT we have this big issue with his parents that we also need to resolve.

As far as I am concerned, there's more than one way to skin a cat and actually I dint have to have a discussion with DH and obtain his "permission" not to see his parents. I just won't be available at times that I don't want to. I will contact them if it suits me - ie to make it clear when is suitable for them to arrive for visits, rather than having MIL alleging she hasn't received DH's texts and turning up whenever the fuck she likes.

Re: me going to visit with DH, part of the reason he likes me to go is because his interaction with them is very awkward. I'm sure he loves them but he doesn't seem to like them or enjoy their company very much

tell them you couldn't give a shit about going to their wedding. As long as they turn up that's all that matters.

All this fuss and upset and people getting married.

I think the current suggestion of taking a key worker to help you with the DC for when he is tied up in Usher duties etc. is a good one. The only reason it's tainted and more being read into it is due to the background of the ILs not really wanting the DC there and well the fact they are generally toxic!!

We are all on a lifelong journey of change habits are deeply ingrained, especially around our parents and it seem clear now that he went into complete and utter melt down/panic when he wasn't able to keep everyone happy.

BUT we have this big issue with his parents that we also need to resolve.

Really, seriously, go check out the Stately Homes thread. I think you'll find it a real eye opener.

I don't think your DH is necessarily a knob. I think he's learnt unfortunate defense mechanisms (lying, stonewalling, pushing off blame) as a result of his upbringing. He's going to need professional help to overcome this. But first he's going to have to acknowledge it all.

Going LC is fine for now. But what happens when your children are old enough for their GPs to start influencing/manipulating them the same way they did your DH. It will happen, you know. And your DH won't even see it happening.

I wondered about the DC

MIL's mother (as is MIL) is awful to her half-brother's wife. They have 4 DC (the 4 whom are going to the wedding) who are all old enough to see what is going on. Their mother is treated as the classic scape goat.

The half-brother and family live miles away and it tends to be just the half-brother who visits his parents with a few of the DC. The DCs don't particularly appear to like their grandmother (although they are very polite to her) as they know she is not nice to their mother.

I am definitely going to the SH threads.

I felt a bit better this morning - now feel really depressed again (not because of this thread) at the thought of all the hard work to do and trying to engage with DH.

Sorry - I haven't RT whole FT but I just wanted to say that a few years back I was in a very similar situation to the one you find yourself in, and like you said at the start, for me not to have gone to that wedding would have been "the nuclear option."

So I went.

However, with the benefit now of several years hindsight, I wish that I could go back and say to my younger self "DON'T BLOODY GO! None of the people at that wedding give two shiny shites about you, you will in fact, as you suspect, have an absolutely shit time and will find it very painful. You will wish in 5 years time that you listened to the sensible voice inside your head telling you not to bloody bother. There will be fall out either way so take the path of least resistance and don't put yourself through it."

I can't say that to myself unfortunately, so I say it to you.

And you really do need to get your DH to reassess his priorities and get onside with you. Life's hard enough without having battle against the one person who is supposed to have your back. I really hope this works out for you.

(PS I no have no more dealings with any of the people who were causing me all that stress and angst and life is better for it.)

DH's mother is a lot like your MIL.

It took us going to couple's counselling for him to really see it, though. I had talked about it until I was blue in the face, but to DH, this was me not liking his DM.

When a counsellor pointed it out to him, it started to click into place with him. He went on from the couples counselling to having sessions on his own, which have helped him. I think, because the counsellor was disinterested, he trusted her view more than mine, because he has seen his mother be horrid to me, in the past, so thought that was colouring my judgement.

Maybe that would work for you, too?

What happened to the Shen do to Barcelona?