Seriously thinking about NC with DH's side of the family

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

This is going to be long but think I need to post the background

I've posted previously about SIL's wedding. I have 3 DCs - age 3, 2 and 13 weeks. The oldest have just turned 3 and 2 respectively so still small.

SIL is getting married about 150 miles away on a week day. We have been told no DCs at the wedding. Mil has a difficult family background and her half-brothers children will be going however - albeit they are older than ours. I susir t ultimately that SIL will also permit her friends to bring small babies. I understand that it is SIL's wedding but I find it pretty hurtful that our children (who are actually her closest relatives) are to be excluded.

My parents are extremely supportive of us and will normally drop anything to help us out. Mil has form for being very difficult and has been very unhelpful at difficult times - eg looked after putt DS on the day of my grandmother's funeral (250 miles away) but refused to rearrange plans so I had to get out cleaner to come and look after DS (then 1 year old) as she had to leave at 5pm. The whole thing was horribly stressful and I still find it very upsetting to think about.

My parents normally drop everything to help us but normally go on holiday with friends around the date of SIL's wedding. They therefore told me immediately that they may be able to look after our DCs but that - in this instance - they actually won't cancel their holiday if the group of friends can only manage that date (they are all retired so tend to go quite last minute to get the best deal) and we should therefore get a plan B. I immediately highlighted this to DH and his response was - (massively fucking entitled) oh it's my sister's wedding. Surely they won't go away. I said they very well could and he should highlight this to his family now as we may not have any childcare and ultimately I wouldn't be able to go. Plus, I could very well still be feeding youngest DC. Really the only option would be to take someone to look after the DCs on site and I didn't even know if that would be feasible. But I was highlighting it now so that there were no amateur dramatics near the wedding if I couldn't go

Communication within DH's family is pretty piss poor so nothing was done.

At the weekend, SIL, MIL and FIL came ti visit and stay the night. SIL said something in passing about my parents looking after the DC and I said that actually they maybe away and there wasn't really a plan B. I said that I could perhaps ask my DS's key worker from nursery to travel to the wedding and look after the DCs but we would need to get him accommodation. And, in any event, I was uncomfortable about being away from my youngest DC even if I could get someone look after all DC at our house.

SIL told me that there were no rooms left at the hotel but if I got the key worker, he could perhaps stay at a local B&B. That she was having to lay £150 a head per guest and she wanted me to be able to relax and enjoy myself and also keep costs down - hence why our DCs weren't invited. I said that the best solution maybe to ask the key worker. And, if I did, would SIL like the DCs to be brought to the church (waiting outside during the ceremony) for a few photos as they would be in the area. Totally up to her obviously but thought she might like it. She said yes, but she was banning children from the church. I said I quite understood as FIL's brother's children had made a terrible racket during ours in the church (MIL insisted they were invited) and you could even hear the noise on the wedding video. MIL said she couldn't remember that but I said (nicely) that it was on the video. I also said that if my parents were looking after the DCs, they had also offered to bring them to the church (to wait outside) and take them home (a big thing as a huge drive) after if she wanted photos.

So - it was all perfectly pleasant and I thought the childcare issue was clear. More importantly, there was actually communication like normal people. DH then went to work in the morning and the DCs and I went out with SIL and the PILs for brunch - all perfectly pleasant. Nothing else said. I was slightly nervous about going out as the PILs had been invited to visit DC3 a few days after she was born and had been very late (with no communication). I was upstairs feeding the baby and DH had said something to MIL about it. She had started shouting and bawling at DH saying it was my fault and I was manipulating them and being very rude about me. I decided the best thing to do was pretend I hadn't heard and gloss over things. But, again, everything perfectly pleasant at brunch

DH then arrives home and asks me what I had been saying to his sister? I explained the position about childcare and said that I had highlighted this to him already but his approach seemed to have been that my parents would have to just cancel their holiday. That wasn't very constructive so I had highlighted things to SIL so she could make ab informed choice about allowing the DCs to attend in the vicinity and be looked after off site (pretty pissing annoying that DH could have mentioned it earlier so we could have got a room for them and carers at the hotel but now we couldn't) as ultimately if we couldn't get appropriate childcare, I wouldn't be able to go and with a wedding of 60 people, that would be noticeable.

DH then says that obviously I had a chip on my shoulder about FIL's neice making a racket during our wedding and that my parents were manipulating things by refusing to cancel their holiday (the irony after my grandmother's funeral and various other times that they have dropped everything and driven 300 miles to help us out after the PILs have let us down!). I susir t he had spoken to MIL on the way home.

I am absolutely fed up with this. I am fed up of rather than everyone talking civilly about things (as I tried to do) and resolve problems in good time, MIL then approaches DH behind my back. If she or SIL had a problem, why not discuss it with me at the time or the next day? I am fed up (and I think this is the crux of it) if DH not simply explaining that all I am trying to do is sort out childcare for the DCs (as basically he seems to have opted out of it and my parents - his indentured servants obviously - are to drop everything AGAIN to help out). Why is DH not able to actually support me (his wife) and make it clear - politely - to his family that if you have your wedding hundreds of miles away and don't invite your very young nieces and nephews, then yes, childcare will be an issue and that is not bring "difficult". It's a matter of fact. And, actually, if your "keeping costs down" banning your brothers children whilst letting others attend is actually pretty fucking hurtful

I actually don't know what to do. I've said tinDH that I think that actually everyone should just be honest and communicate clearly with each other now. So if he thinks my patents are "selfish"
and "manipulative" (the breath taking cheek!) he should say to their faces. Further, I will contact SIL and MIL and ask them if they need me to clarify anything about what we discussed. Further, another option is for me to not attend and look after the DCs which I think maybe the best option all round

I'm actually so so sick of this. I don't want to see the PILs again and I don't particularly want to see SIL again.

Should I contact them? Should I just decline the wedding invitation? I want to make it clear why

I also need to sort out the DH issue too

And what about the other email stuff; financially irresponsible and unappreciative? Has that been retracted or explained away as a bizarre misunderstanding too?

He said he didn't mean that.

I'm a bit worried he might be about to have some kind of break down. He's currently working 7 days a week. Obviously the DCs are very tiring and we are both knackered.

We have had issues with MIL before. Bit not to the extent that he appears to completely rewrite history

We do seem to have come slightly back from
planet la la land with the admissions that MIL did say the thing about children under 8 not being allowed in the hotel. Reading that back after typing it...it's just laughable. My DH is an intelligent person. Why on earth does he believe this crap from MIL

You've said you won't go nc as you want to be there when they see the outlaws. They are really little one day you may not feel like that. Dh could take them to see inlaws. Thats what we have started doing, now youngest is 3, eldest 14.

Maybe I missed it, but has anyone suggested you check out the Stately Homes thread? It's for survivors of narc family but I know other people (friends, spouses, etc) have gotten good information and validation from that thread. I've seen a few threads where OPs were encouraged to check it out and they've come back saying "OMG, that's exactly it!!!".

May be worth checking.

Oh and its generally brill.

OK you are a lawyer. I assume that you are used to presenting rational arguments, backed up by evidence, and having the opposing side responding in kind? That doesn't work with these people - your list of questions about why, if the children actually are invited, SIL said it was a child free wedding, why you were told the hotel doesn't allow under 8s - you are never going to get any sense with any of that, not with people constantly twisting the facts and misrepresenting what you or anyone else did or didn't say in order to fit their narrative. All you can do is disengage from the drama, be polite but distant when you can't avoid contact.

• SIL can have a child free wedding - fine, her choice.
• Your parents are not available to help out - I agree with other posters you are back where you started if your husband still wants to ask them to if they are not on holiday at that time
• You do not have childcare, the kids can't go, therefore you can't go, husband goes alone - it really is pretty straightforward and doesn't have to be up for debate, negotiation, tantrums and guilt trips
• you know what your husband said about your parents, please don't forget it
• back to you are a lawyer, I assume you know how to protect your interests if you decide you can't carry on living like this

You're thinking this way because you are a decent, normal human being.

They aren't.

Got to sleep. Hope you can make headway with your DH.

Gobbo, your husband has been so horrible and so completely off the wall in terms of lies and cover-ups that when he stops it seems to you like you're making progress. It isn't progress. If you have a headache and repeatedly bang your head against the wall, then stop banging, it might feel like a relief to stop but actually you've still got the original headache.

You're now no further forward than you were. You're still planning to take your children hundreds of miles to sit in a room miles away from you and their family, but now you believe you've made headway because your husband's behaviour has turned from utterly batshit to merely lying and sweeping all of the problems under the carpet. You're now back to trying to solve the problem with keyworkers, and trying to convince yourself that it's sensible to be 20 miles away from your breastfed baby.

The only circumstances in which you can reasonably go to the wedding are:

1. All of your children are invited to the whole wedding.
2. There's a family room big enough to accommodate all of you at the hotel.

You need to stop trying to keep your inlaws happy and start thinking about your children's happiness (in terms of the wedding, not suggesting they are unhappy in everyday life).

Gobbo - 15 pages of people telling you to just walk away from this wedding - what on earth is there left to say?

They all sound insane :-(.

Good Lord ....I feel like I've attended this hellish wedding myself.

Goodness knows how you feel Op....I'd be beyond pissed of by each conflicting tale of invitation.

Maybe I'd end up going also. Although I'd rather give the whole shebang a wide birth.

I reckon your DH engineered a large portion of this confusion as he fancied going child free.

Gobbolino I know it feels like you're making progress, but I'm not sure that you really are. He's just got to a slightly more reasonable score on the twat-o-meter.

Let me get this straight: it's ok for the DC to go as long as they stay in the suite? And yet there are going to be DC at the function whilst your 3 are hidden away from view?

That is all kinds of batshit. What on earth makes him think that other people won't question what you've done with your DC when there are others milling about?

I can understand why you would ask the key worker and you're absolutely right - you need to be seen to be doing he right things etc. But Inertia is spot on - it would only be reasonable for your DC to be invited to the whole thing and for there be somewhere for you all to stay. Oh - and that you only pay for your own stay and not be fleeced by any of your ILs.

I really hope you get some rest - can imagine you're exhausted

You sound lovely but I´m afraid you come across to me like a ditherer fanny. This thread is pages and pages of people repeating the same advice, just maybe worded differently and you going round in circles!
¨But one option is to just not go¨....initially said how many pages back?? And you´ve even admitted you don´t even want to bloody go anyway!
This thread has long ago evolved from going NC ( which you have no intention of doing, you admit ) so the title is totally redundant.
You come across like a robot that others programme and off you go to do their bidding.

Nobody here is gonna be able to really help you because that takes action on your part. Are you planning on keeping this thread running til Sept??

You update frequently but there is no real progress is there? Just more dithering by you and more repeating of advice from posters. How many more ways do you want us to say the same thing only dressed up differently? People can only re-word the same message so many times!

I´m bowing out cos this has gotten ridiculous. It´s now like a bloody Will She Won´t She Go To The Wedding! I had no idea lawyers could be so indecisive tbh

Oh and if anyone wants to have a pop and call this ¨sanctimonious¨ again, a premature Fuck You! Up Yours!

Moomin, well said. Gobbo's every thread is like this. Dithering, dithering going round in circles then ultimately still doing what she said did not want to do. Then complaining about it. So she will go this wedding. She will not go NC. But she will complain about it. Then start a thread. And so on, ad infinitum!

Your husband is as crazy as the rest of them.

Start drawing a line in the sand. Don't go to the wedding and book yourselves into relate. Really, the wedding is the least of your problems.

Agree Moomin

It's been like The Vanilla sky meets the Butterfly effect of threads.

But then it takes little to confuse me....

Agree with Ohfourfoxache, can't imagine anything worse than being stuck in a hotel room with 3 small children trying to get them to sleep when there is a loud wedding going on. Also trying to look them in the eye and explain why they can't join in the family celebration but other children are going. I wouldn't drag them all the way over to an event that they can't go to and putting them in a room out of the way. One small baby fine, two active toddlers - no way.

It's not your or DH's problem about his SIL looking bad for excluding them, she is managing that all by herself.

Well I'm sorry that it's annoying

As I said, not going is still an option.

The children will be at the hotel with us. The B&b is for whomever providing childcare to stay in as no rooms at the hotel.

DH is trying to create a situation where

(A) I go
(B) I'm happy - I want children on the premises.
(C) I have someone to help me with the children. He's an usher and apparently will be sitting at the top table so will not always be 100% available.

Therefore he has suggested we get some childcare so that I can attend the evening reception/someone can watch the other two if I need to do a nappy and DH is otherwise engaged rather than me take all 3 off to the loo. I don't actually think that is unreasonable. He has said this morning that if I want the DC to attend the whole thing and not take the key worker that's fine. If I don't want to go, that's fine. That I've got time to think about things and decide what to do

He's suggested the key worker as obviously the DC know him but he's said if I want to hire a nanny or ask anyone else that I want (parents excluded) that's fine.

I asked him how he envisaged the day and he said the DC would be there but the key worker (or me if I wanted) would take the DC for lunch at the hotel and then to play in the grounds or they could pop into the reception - whatever we want but the key worker is there so that I don't have to go back to the room for naps etc and don't have to leave if one of the DC starts bawling unless I want to. I can do whatever I want but it's to give us some flexibility. Obviously he will do as much as he can but it's his sister's wedding and he would prefer not to sit in our room whilst the two youngest nap. Hence having another pair of hands so that I don't have to unless I want to.

I don't think that is unreasonable but maybe I'm wrong.

Re the PILs - on reflection at this particular moment, I don't want no contact at all because I don't want the PILs to see the DC without me there.

However, I am going low contact. DH can deal with them from now on. I'm also not seeing the PILs on my own.

We do still need to sort out the "mid-remembering" of the situation though

As I have said above, I think DH has tried to finesse this so that I would "agree" to going without children. It has not been helped by MIL saying that DC under the age of 8 were not allowed on the premises - now accepted by DH as being untrue

Oh flipping 'eck - he's an usher, so you won't be sitting together at the ceremony or the meal? I really have to question why it's so important to him that you're there. It's for appearances, isn't it?

He doesn't like seeing them on his own

He doesn't like seeing them on his own because you act as a buffer! So essentially when your there his family scapegoat you instead of him. He's basically using you as a sacrificial lamb for his family to save his own back.

He is a bigger problem than his family at the minute. He hasn't apologised for the awful things he said to you, nor has he apologised for his awful treatment and comments of your parents who have done way more than his useless family to help and support yourself. He has basically appeased you to a point of you falling back in line and doing what he wants you to do.

If you go to the wedding his family will be awful to you and don't think your husband has your back. He hasn't and he potentially he never will. The only chance of saving this you have is standing up for yourself completely but your not your rolling over and accepting his need to treat you like shite. Your letting him get away with it.

OMFG. This is getting ridiculous. Your "D"H is a gaslighting cunt. You're a doormat. He hasn't even admitted to what he said about your parents, let alone apologised, and you're still bending over backwards to please him.

YOU WON'T EVEN BE SITTING WITH HIM AT THE MEAL FFS.

For the millionth time, don't go.

If you don't have the balls to insist on couple's counselling you should at the very least get counselling and/or assertiveness training for yourself.

He doesn't like seeing them on his own

And this is your problem why? He seems quite happy to toddle off to work and leave you to entertain them in your house, after which they report all sorts of lies about the conversation back to him. You think this won't happen at the wedding? OK MIL and SIL will also be at the top table but you're going to get crucified again for whatever you do on the day, e.g. going and spending time with the kids in the attic will be seen as snubbing the bride and groom. And your DH will not defend you one iota at this point.

They are - apparently invited.

However, to be fair to DH, I do think that wrangling the three of them whilst dressed up in my wedding gear will be quite a lot. Hence why I appreciate another pair of hands.

Separately, knowing my DC, I know when they see the gardens around the venue, they will want to go out and play. No harm in that if there is someone else to supervise them or I can do it but I have someone ejse to help if it is eg raining and I don't want to go outside and DH is doing something else.

DH's point is that he wants it to be as flexible as possible. So he wants a situation where we are not saying to a 2 and a 3 year old that the meal is at 7. Tough shit that's when the guests eat and you two are guests. Instead he wants a situation where - if they are starving and can't wait til 7 - he or me or the key worker can get the DC some food in the restaurant or the room or wherever. They may go to the meal but they may not depending on what is best for the DCs. He has stressed today that he also wants what is best for the DCs. So if one wants a nap, they can go upstairs with mummy or the key worker (or daddy if he is available) and the others can stay at the reception without being dragged off.

And - for the avoidance of doubt - this is only one option.

Not going may very well be the option I choose but I don't have to decide that today. DH has said I might wake up on the day and decide not to go. That's fine.