Seriously thinking about NC with DH's side of the family

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

This is going to be long but think I need to post the background

I've posted previously about SIL's wedding. I have 3 DCs - age 3, 2 and 13 weeks. The oldest have just turned 3 and 2 respectively so still small.

SIL is getting married about 150 miles away on a week day. We have been told no DCs at the wedding. Mil has a difficult family background and her half-brothers children will be going however - albeit they are older than ours. I susir t ultimately that SIL will also permit her friends to bring small babies. I understand that it is SIL's wedding but I find it pretty hurtful that our children (who are actually her closest relatives) are to be excluded.

My parents are extremely supportive of us and will normally drop anything to help us out. Mil has form for being very difficult and has been very unhelpful at difficult times - eg looked after putt DS on the day of my grandmother's funeral (250 miles away) but refused to rearrange plans so I had to get out cleaner to come and look after DS (then 1 year old) as she had to leave at 5pm. The whole thing was horribly stressful and I still find it very upsetting to think about.

My parents normally drop everything to help us but normally go on holiday with friends around the date of SIL's wedding. They therefore told me immediately that they may be able to look after our DCs but that - in this instance - they actually won't cancel their holiday if the group of friends can only manage that date (they are all retired so tend to go quite last minute to get the best deal) and we should therefore get a plan B. I immediately highlighted this to DH and his response was - (massively fucking entitled) oh it's my sister's wedding. Surely they won't go away. I said they very well could and he should highlight this to his family now as we may not have any childcare and ultimately I wouldn't be able to go. Plus, I could very well still be feeding youngest DC. Really the only option would be to take someone to look after the DCs on site and I didn't even know if that would be feasible. But I was highlighting it now so that there were no amateur dramatics near the wedding if I couldn't go

Communication within DH's family is pretty piss poor so nothing was done.

At the weekend, SIL, MIL and FIL came ti visit and stay the night. SIL said something in passing about my parents looking after the DC and I said that actually they maybe away and there wasn't really a plan B. I said that I could perhaps ask my DS's key worker from nursery to travel to the wedding and look after the DCs but we would need to get him accommodation. And, in any event, I was uncomfortable about being away from my youngest DC even if I could get someone look after all DC at our house.

SIL told me that there were no rooms left at the hotel but if I got the key worker, he could perhaps stay at a local B&B. That she was having to lay £150 a head per guest and she wanted me to be able to relax and enjoy myself and also keep costs down - hence why our DCs weren't invited. I said that the best solution maybe to ask the key worker. And, if I did, would SIL like the DCs to be brought to the church (waiting outside during the ceremony) for a few photos as they would be in the area. Totally up to her obviously but thought she might like it. She said yes, but she was banning children from the church. I said I quite understood as FIL's brother's children had made a terrible racket during ours in the church (MIL insisted they were invited) and you could even hear the noise on the wedding video. MIL said she couldn't remember that but I said (nicely) that it was on the video. I also said that if my parents were looking after the DCs, they had also offered to bring them to the church (to wait outside) and take them home (a big thing as a huge drive) after if she wanted photos.

So - it was all perfectly pleasant and I thought the childcare issue was clear. More importantly, there was actually communication like normal people. DH then went to work in the morning and the DCs and I went out with SIL and the PILs for brunch - all perfectly pleasant. Nothing else said. I was slightly nervous about going out as the PILs had been invited to visit DC3 a few days after she was born and had been very late (with no communication). I was upstairs feeding the baby and DH had said something to MIL about it. She had started shouting and bawling at DH saying it was my fault and I was manipulating them and being very rude about me. I decided the best thing to do was pretend I hadn't heard and gloss over things. But, again, everything perfectly pleasant at brunch

DH then arrives home and asks me what I had been saying to his sister? I explained the position about childcare and said that I had highlighted this to him already but his approach seemed to have been that my parents would have to just cancel their holiday. That wasn't very constructive so I had highlighted things to SIL so she could make ab informed choice about allowing the DCs to attend in the vicinity and be looked after off site (pretty pissing annoying that DH could have mentioned it earlier so we could have got a room for them and carers at the hotel but now we couldn't) as ultimately if we couldn't get appropriate childcare, I wouldn't be able to go and with a wedding of 60 people, that would be noticeable.

DH then says that obviously I had a chip on my shoulder about FIL's neice making a racket during our wedding and that my parents were manipulating things by refusing to cancel their holiday (the irony after my grandmother's funeral and various other times that they have dropped everything and driven 300 miles to help us out after the PILs have let us down!). I susir t he had spoken to MIL on the way home.

I am absolutely fed up with this. I am fed up of rather than everyone talking civilly about things (as I tried to do) and resolve problems in good time, MIL then approaches DH behind my back. If she or SIL had a problem, why not discuss it with me at the time or the next day? I am fed up (and I think this is the crux of it) if DH not simply explaining that all I am trying to do is sort out childcare for the DCs (as basically he seems to have opted out of it and my parents - his indentured servants obviously - are to drop everything AGAIN to help out). Why is DH not able to actually support me (his wife) and make it clear - politely - to his family that if you have your wedding hundreds of miles away and don't invite your very young nieces and nephews, then yes, childcare will be an issue and that is not bring "difficult". It's a matter of fact. And, actually, if your "keeping costs down" banning your brothers children whilst letting others attend is actually pretty fucking hurtful

I actually don't know what to do. I've said tinDH that I think that actually everyone should just be honest and communicate clearly with each other now. So if he thinks my patents are "selfish"
and "manipulative" (the breath taking cheek!) he should say to their faces. Further, I will contact SIL and MIL and ask them if they need me to clarify anything about what we discussed. Further, another option is for me to not attend and look after the DCs which I think maybe the best option all round

I'm actually so so sick of this. I don't want to see the PILs again and I don't particularly want to see SIL again.

Should I contact them? Should I just decline the wedding invitation? I want to make it clear why

I also need to sort out the DH issue too

Get him to put it in writing that it's okay for you to back out on the day. Cos that will be yet another thing conveniently forgotten when it doesn't suit his toxic family's narrative.

He doesn't like seeing them on his own. You don't like seeing them either.

So see them a lot lot less. And you need to stop facilitating it - even the book says so!

Because fundamentally you are a nice person with nice parents you have been under the misapprehension that you have to facilitate happy relationships on all sides. You don't.

The more you make it his responsibility the more he will be become a normal person who realises his family are insane and the less he will want to do with them.

So this wedding - he'll be at top table and you'll be sitting somewhere else. Has he actually established the DCs are invited yet? Or is that just in his head?

OK- cross posted with the bit where they are invited. But the rest still stands!

Before you agree anything about the hotel, find out what is definitely available by phoning the hotel yourself. You have described it as remote, if they do not have a separate restaurant or facility then your kids may be stuck trying to keep going on mini packs of biscuits and crisps. If they can go into the bar to get them.

Get lawyerly about what is available at the hotel when they have a wedding and those who need feeding aren't part of the wedding party. At the very least you will know if you need to take food.

I would strongly suggest that any arrangements with the hotel if you go (which I personally think would be incredibly unwise) be made independently and flagged that you, Gobbolino, are the only one that can make any changes to any bookings, put things on bills etc.

They enjoy you being upset. Your husband does not mind that they enjoy you being upset and will do nothing to protect you. You are not allowed to stop them upsetting you. Not by them and not by your husband. Would you put him through this?

I suggest that you look through your posts, and also that you make a mission statement. Put a timeline of every compromise and surrender you have made. Work out what your lines are. Keep referring back to those lines. It is unlikely to get better and could well get worse.

Sending hugs.

To me there's 2 aspect here.

1. he said some dreadful things about you which he's now denying. He's gaslighting you. There's an issue with how he sees you and tbh, I have more problem with that than I do with the in-laws issues.

2. the in laws issues. There has been an ongoing poster who initially posted about finding out her MIL was pushing her DH to disinherit her and the kids. Of course there were lots of LTB for that but a few who have been through hell with toxic in-laws saw it differently.

They actually saw the DH as the victim, that he truly saw his mother as normal. He wasn't setting out to hurst DW and kids but he'd been so conditioned over the years he didn't see them as abnormal of a problem. She said jump, the whole family did.

Difference is, he adore her and the kids and when she pointed out to him that he'd inadvertently massively betrayed his family, it suddenly clicked for him and he wanted to change it. He then started relying heavily in her to work out what was right or not because even knowing her toxicity he was so conditioned he couldn't work out what was right or not.

So, is your DH they victim of them or is he just as bad in his own ways in his attitude to you? From your posts about the other ways he's talked about you and your parents, I'm inclined to think your situation may not be just down to your in-laws and he's crossed the line from victim to aggressor and it's then a fine line from that to him becoming as abusive as the in-laws.

Please, make sure you try to separate out emotions and see your situation as a dispationate lawyer would. I think you might need to end your marriage given his dismissal of his poor behaviour and gaslighting. He said those things, he won't take ownership of them or try to understand why to change them. Therefore that'll not change.

From speaking to DH, I think it was a bit if a half-hearted invite: "well, they cooouuuullld come but I'd prefer if they didn't". MIL then told him DC underc8 weren't allowed in the venue

I think DH was hurt and embarrassed about this. So rather than telling me it was half-hearted, finessed

In their usual tradition of piss poor communication, DH didn't immediately ask SIL about this it say to SIL/MIL, "well what the hell do you expect Gobbo/me to do with the DC". Instead, the easiest thing was to finesse things so they didn't go and my parents looked after them. In DH's mind, everyone is now happy and DH doesn't have to have any uncomfortable discussions with anyone. Then my parents weren't available and panic stations.

I suspect that SIL (a) didn't know my parents weren't available and (b) when she found out was trying to out a guilt trip on me (oooooh I just want you to relax/keep costs down) so I would get back in my box and sort out other childcare. However, when I didn't back down, she wasn't quite able to say to my face, No. Your DC are NOT coming hence why we started having a convo about key workers and b&bs.

I am calling the hotel re: the room. We have actually been at the hotel before to stay with the DC and I know there is a bar where DC can eat and room service. There is also a play room - ironically, it has win awards for being child friendly. So that's why MIL's assertion that children under the age of 8 aren't allowed is just so barking

said some dreadful things about you which he's now denying. He's gaslighting you. There's an issue with how he sees you and tbh, I have more problem with that than I do with the in-laws issues.'

This is definitely true and needs addressed

The thing is - I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.

If I don't go, I hardly think that DH's family are going to say or think "Oh, good choice, Gobbo."

So instead I have to etched what I want to do. Which is essentially choosing the least bad option.

"The more the wedding information gets muddled, the more everyone concentrates on that, and your DH just gets away with saying those awful things."

THIS

So, basically, DH/SIL/MIL are all manipulating you to get what they want.

DH doesn't fancy doing any parenting while he's there, but expects you to sit fuck knows where with fuck knows who, looking pretty in a wifey way so he can wave at you occasionally from the top table safe in the knowledge that he doesn't have to explain your absence.

All while the children are shoved off 'elsewhere' with a babysitter to be wheeled in occasionally to look pretty so SIL/MIL can demonstrate to the masses how they adore them but wheeled out again quickly before they start behaving like actual children.

Yeah, fuck that.

The hunt for fools gold analogy is pretty spot on, because you're a nice decent person you expect them to behave in the same way but they never do and they never will.

I'd go somewhere else on my own with the kids and actually have fun.

And "damned if I do, damned if I don't"

I agree you'll get the shit end of the stick regardless, so you might as well pick the option that YOU want, rather than trying to figure out what THEY want.

Personally I'd be tempted to join your parents on their holiday - that sounds a lot more fun!

You are taking responsibility again.

None of this is your mess. You have been treated appallingly by PIL, SIL and DH, and yet here you are letting 'poor' DH off the hook by calling hotels, spending money on nursery workers etc trying to make it alright.

IT IS NOT ALRIGHT!

This is not your MIL. This is not your SIL. It is your DH.

Stop fixing this for him. He has done some terrible things to you and your parents. Sod the wedding. WAKE UP.

So essentially it all boils down to this:

You are bending over backwards, forwards, and sideways so that your dh gets his own way.

He gets to swan around doing his own thing, sits at a different table completely childfree, and might spend a bit of time with his own children if he feels like it.

I can't help wondering why being an usher means that he essentially gets to opt out of doing any real parenting on the day. It's not exactly a difficult day-long role.

Families don't generally need to take along an extra person. The parents usually take it in turns. I could understand it if he were the groom, but not an usher.

He's basically happy for anyone to do the shitwork as long as it's not him.

Re: the key worker

At my wedding, my sister and my cousin both had very young children. My cousin brought her nanny to the wedding and my sister brought a cousin of her DH's for ad hoc childcare.

All 3 of the DC's took part in the bits if the wedding that suited them.

I know that my sister specifically organised this as she wanted to get ready with me in the morning and support me on my day. I'm also know that she says to her DH (and he was happy with that) that she would really appreciate if she got a bit of a parenting pass that day. Her childcare was there to help so that her DH could enjoy the wedding too and wasn't solely in charge of his DS. He'd quite cheerfully have done it but my sister figured he'd maybe like a drink and not to go and sit in their room from 6:30pm.

I'm actually in tears here at the fact that apparently this means that I'm also a selfish bitch who wheeled my nephew into the wedding as and when suited me and that this arrangement means that I unknowingly facilitated in my sister abusing her DH.

I actually do feel like I'm in a parallel universe.

He's basically happy for anyone to do the shitwork as long as it's not him

That is completely untrue. My DH is a far more hands on father than many other's I know. He has asked for a bit of a pass on the day if his sister's wedding and instead of leaving me to it, is trying to find someone to help me - a person that I am comfortable with leaving the DC with. Because he would like me to have the choice of whether to go to bed at 6:30 or not. And frankly anyone who comes on here and says "Oh well, at MY own sister's wedding, I went to bed at 5pm and didn't even bother going to the meal or the church to let my DH do it" (and I know you are coming!) is quite frankly barking

I'm hiding this thread now. My DH has done some things that I have said I am deeply unhappy with and will be dealing with with him directly.

It seems that unless I agree with a completely unfair character assassination of him and immediately file for divorce this morning after advising him, MIL and SIL, that I'm not doing

that situation was different: everyone was content with the arrangements. If you're getting upset and angry with MNetters that's displaced: the problem here is your gaslighting, selfish DH (and his family).

Here, as PPs have said you're bending over backwards so that HE can have a great time and no hassle. Why?

If DC are actually invited for the whole thing - which is your H's responsibility to establish with his sister - fine. If they are not, and childcare isn't available, then you just don't go. Any kind of option involving hotels, travel etc for them but non attendance should be off the table.

But thank you to the posters who have given me thoughtful and helpful advice, I appreciate it.

I may very well be content with the arrangements of taking the key worker and having the DC in the hotel

What's the problem with that?

I've gone from a situation where I have to do what MIL/SIL to say unquestioningly to having to do and feel what a bunch of strangers on the internet say

Not sure what's worse

I'm getting upset at people making wildly unsubstantiated allegations about my DH

Gobbolino, no one has called you a "selfish bitch" or suggested you facilitated in"abuse" at your wedding! Think you are getting upset at a wrong, minor issue here... Upset at the horrible things your husband said to you I could understand, but not at discussion of childcare options at the upcoming wedding.

For what it is worth, my husband had sole charge of our young son at my sisters wedding whilst I was her maid of honour. In retrospect, I wish we had booked a babysitter/ nanny so he could have enjoyed the day more. Please don't beat yourself up over this

Please do a timeline of all the compromises you have made.

As for being damned if you do, damned if you don't - please look after yourself as you are getting ragged about for no good reason and you owe it to yourself to keep what sanity you have.

If you are going to be damned regardless I suggest doing what you want with flamboyant gusto, but that is easy for me to say from this safe distance.

^DH doesn't fancy doing any parenting while he's there, but expects you to sit fuck knows where with fuck knows who, looking pretty in a wifey way so he can wave at you occasionally from the top table safe in the knowledge that he doesn't have to explain your absence.

All while the children are shoved off 'elsewhere' with a babysitter to be wheeled in occasionally to look pretty so SIL/MIL can demonstrate to the masses how they adore them but wheeled out again quickly before they start behaving like actual children.^

This is an analysis of the exact same situation that arose at my own wedding

Not very nice, is it?

And why would I expect to sit at the top table? I've been to plenty of do's where I haven't set next to DH and vice versa. I was a bridesmaid for my best friend and DH sat - quite happily - at a table with people he didn't know very well. Frankly I would have thought he was a bit of a professional victim of he wasn't able to