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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Ok ladies....roll up...my observations on dating after learning the hard way

328 replies

MakingItReal · 16/02/2016 15:00

Right, I have been dating for a few years now and I see the same problems come up over and over again - causing us unknown strife and heartache. I know there are exceptions to every rule - but in my experience and in every case I know the following is absolutely true:

Translating what he says

1. If a man says he is not looking for a relationship
THEN HE IS NOT LOOKING FOR A RELATIONSHIP. He's not going to fall in love with you and change his mind. He enjoys your company and all the free sex he has already decided that you are NOT going to be a long term relationship for him.

2. If a man says he is not looking for a relationship part 2
He is keeping his options open so that he can freely move on to the next person when he finds her and believe me he is still looking regardless of the fact he has told you that you are exclusive.

3. When he says "I don't want to hurt you
This means he is going to hurt you. He realises you like him and are invested and he is aware he is going to hurt you. Someone who wants to be with you would be telling you 'I'm not going to hurt you'. There is only a slight difference between the two phrases but the meaning of each is completely different.

5. You are more than just sex
This means you are just sex.
If he says it to you along with any of phrases 1 & 2 then you are DEFINITELY just sex. He is trying to convince you you mean more to him than just sex so that you stick around hoping for a relationship.

4. I might be ready for a relationship in the future
Yes, he will. But it won't be with you. If he wanted you to be his girlfriend, you already would be.

The Hard, Cold Facts:

If he wants you long term, you will know. Even shy men or men with commitment problems will not want to risk losing the woman they see as special above all others. So you will know.

If you are in a casual relationship or he is reluctant to commit and you want more the only solution is to walk away. If you stay, he will continue using you, and will value you less and less as time goes on. The only possible way for him to change his mind about you is to remove yourself from the equation.

If he has ishoos, it's not sexy, it's not a challenge, it's not a sign that you were destined to save him and win his love. It's a sign he will make a shitty partner, shitty father and shitty person to invest in. There is nothing sexier than a grown assed man with his shit together.

If he sends mixed messages, blows hot and cold, makes you feel unsure about what he wants and you find yourself posting on Mumsnet or Googling to try an figure out what he is thinking...RUN AWAY. It's not meant to be that complicated and a man that truly cares about how you feel is never going to make you wonder where you stand.

Never, ever, ever, ever underestimate the lengths a man will go to for sex. I hate to tarnish all men with that brush because they ain't all like it, but there are a scary proportion of men (younger ones especially) that will do anything to get sex off you. Espeically if it's good sex. They will jump on a plane, pay for expensive dates, stand outside your window singing Barry Manilow. And this ain't love. It's lust -and it means NOTHING except they really, really want to bang you.

Men, especially the younger and unevolved ones all have a strategy they have evolved to catch women. The good looking, charming ones might sweep you off your feet and you can see those coming - watch out for the underdog that wins you over by telling you a sob story about his alcoholic mother and how much he feels a "connection" with you. They're the worst, you never see them coming.

A good relationship makes you feel totally fullfilled. You don't wonder how they feel about you or why they haven't returned a message or why they didn't make plans for the weekend with you yet. They make you a priority and there's no grey area.

If he is up and down, hot and cold and all over you one minute leaving you confused the next then he is a prick. Without question. He's not scared, he's not busy, he's not anything- but a prick. Walk away, because he likes you...as an OPTION.

If he is still on dating sites logging on "just to check" after 12 dates or more...he is looking for someone better.

If he doesn't message or call you much one day but you notice he's been "online" quite a lot while telling you he is busy - then he is talking to someone else, a new prospect or perhaps someone else he has on the backburner.

Women and men are generally different in that we tend to bond more quickly /decide on one person -whereas they like to keep their options open. Never, ever, ever allow yourself to bond to a man before he's made it clear he's decided he wants you and only you.

If he is a bad boyfriend at the very start, he will be a thousand times worse by the time you have been with him a while and the honeymoon period is over.

If he doesn't make time to see you most weekends or ask you to meet his friends and family and be keen to meet yours or plan things to do together in advance or show in practical actions that he sees you as someone he wants to integtate into his life - they forget his words - his actions say it all.

We teach them how to treat us. So teach him that you are worth all the diamonds on earth by having boundaries in place to accept absolutely zero disrespect, selfishness or mind fuck behavior and he will either move on to the next person who is willing to accept his crap (making room for Mr Right to walk into yours) or he will look at you, realise what a strong, self respecting woman you are and realise that he had better step up his game. Either way you are a winner.

You never, ever, ever, ever, ever have anything to lose from walking away from a man who is giving you less than 100%. If he comes after you - you will be able to take back your power and he will know that he has to value and respect you to keep you. If he doesn't come after you - you will find someone better.

OP posts:
SoThatHappened · 18/02/2016 15:41

But I don;t want to have it with someone who's already decided I'm good enough for a fuck but not as a girlfriend.

Me either and they dont tell you that.

They dont tell you Im fucking you until something else comes along.

It looks like any other dating situation that has potential to become serious.

Bastards

RobinsonsSquash · 18/02/2016 15:42

'He should have allowed me to leave the relaitonship if he knew I felt more than he did'

He doesn't get to make that decision. You do.

MakingItReal · 18/02/2016 15:43

Yes but Robinsons, he as pretending and denying that was true!

OP posts:
RobinsonsSquash · 18/02/2016 15:44

Denying what was true?

MakingItReal · 18/02/2016 15:44

It would have been a lot easier if he'd said so!

He actually said "I am truly hurt you think that" and made me feel guilty.

This is the whole issues, dealing with people who lie to get what they want off you.

OP posts:
MakingItReal · 18/02/2016 15:46

I would say to him that I wanted to leave the relationship because I had genuine feelings for him that were developing and did not feel they were being returned and he would then say I had really hurt him, that of course he returned them, that he was scared of how much he felt for me, that I had cast him onto the pile like all the other men who just wanted sex and it meant much more to him than that. Blah, blah, blah

OP posts:
Kanewreck · 18/02/2016 15:48

'continue having sex with me'.
You sound like an inflatable doll. You were having sex with each other. Take control of your actions and choices. In those moments you were happy. It didn't work out. No bother. Things change, opinions change as you learn more about each other. No contract was signed, you don't owe each other anything. Move on.
In the moment you were happy, it enhanced your life. Move on to some new moments.

RobinsonsSquash · 18/02/2016 15:50

Blah blah blah is right. But it was your call to hang around and listen to it. He didn't stop you leaving, you stopped you leaving.

MakingItReal · 18/02/2016 15:52

Sorry that is complete rubbish

I was having sex with him, by my own choice, based on completely false information he gave me on which to make that decision.

Clearly no one has ever done that to you, but it feels a little bit like you have been deeply violated.

What you just said is completely ridiculous. If someone broke into your house and had sex with you in your sleep and you enjoyed it because yo thought they were your partner -how would you feel if you found out it was someone else?

Oh well i enjoyed the fuck anyway!

OP posts:
MakingItReal · 18/02/2016 15:53

Blah blah blah is right. But it was your call to hang around and listen to it. He didn't stop you leaving, you stopped you leaving

Exactly. And by following the principles I've figured out, I won't ever make the same mistake

OP posts:
Kanewreck · 18/02/2016 15:55

Jesus! You are comparing it to rape. Get a grip.
You really aren't ready to date. Imo

Kanewreck · 18/02/2016 15:57

Plus you weren't being yourself. Playing the 'cool girlfriend' and other things you have said up thread

MakingItReal · 18/02/2016 15:59

Absolutely similar to rape! Maybe not phsyically forced but most certainly emotionally coerced!

I felt filthy

OP posts:
TinklyLittleLaugh · 18/02/2016 15:59

Men are not always lying though are they? Sometimes they just change their mind about how they feel about you. Surely that's okay. You can change your mind about how you feel about them too.

MakingItReal · 18/02/2016 16:01

where did I say men were always lying?

OP posts:
Kanewreck · 18/02/2016 16:02

op, you need to get a grip. So this filthy feeling came on as soon as he dumped you?
Do you actually know why he dumped you?

BlondeOnATreadmill · 18/02/2016 16:04

I disagree kanewreck, I think the Op has learned many lessons, and is now ready to date minus any bullshit. She knows exactly what to avoid.

Sothat please don't feel you've wasted the best years of your life. I bet you had some amazing adventures when single. I was with shitty 1st Husband in the years you mention (17 to 37 actually). I could look on it as a waste, but what would that achieve? I am now 46 with 2nd Husband who is a wonderful man, and I would say these years are better than the younger ones. You honestly still have everything to play for. You have many, many good years left!

MysticMugBug · 18/02/2016 16:05

Check out 'Matthew Hussey' and consider buying 'get the guy' book. I'm not exaggerating when I say it changed my life for the better.... I used to play hard to get, too hard and made many other mistakes!

RobinsonsSquash · 18/02/2016 16:06

This is starting to feel a bit uncomfortable since the experience was obviously traumatising for Real.

So I'll confine myself to generalisations: everyone is responsible for their own feelings. No one can 'make' you feel guilty unless you want to feel guilty. If their words contradict their behaviour and you're not happy, you owe it to yourself to get out without looking back.

If you have suspicions about something, or feel you're being manipulated (or even just feel like you might be being manipulated, because you're not sure, and they say one thing but do another), or see yourself acting in a way you're not comfortable with, or compromise anything at all in a way that makes you feel terrible - run.

RobinsonsSquash · 18/02/2016 16:08

And: all of the above entirely achievable without rules and regs around dating or generalising about what some men like to do in a dating context.

MakingItReal · 18/02/2016 16:10

op, you need to get a grip. So this filthy feeling came on as soon as he dumped you? Do you actually know why he dumped you?

I dumped HIM. He still won't leave me alone.

OP posts:
Kanewreck · 18/02/2016 16:10

Blonde, you really think that those are healthy thought processes?
Op isn't the victim of a big conspiracy. She is giving way too much clarity to her ex's thought process. You see on here that it can take years to end a relationship. They don't verbalise it straight away. There are doubts and confusion.
The whole rape thing us bizarre

TinklyLittleLaugh · 18/02/2016 16:12

Well, I'm really glad I'm not doing this dating thing; it sounds very complicated to me.

Surely it simply boils down to walking away if you are not enhancing each other's lives? All this second guessing of each other's long term intentions is just madness. And I couldn't be doing with this texting each other every five minutes either.

RobinsonsSquash · 18/02/2016 16:13

He needs to leave you alone.

In writing from you to him: 'Stop contacting me. I do not want to hear from you ever again. If you contact me again I will consider it harassment.'

If he carries on after that, police.

MakingItReal · 18/02/2016 16:14

Where did I say I was the victim of a conspiracy?

You're not observing the fact that I have had 15 years of healthy relationships nothing like this, and when confronted by a person like this I had no idea how to handle it

Evidently a lot of the other women on the thread didn't either.

OP posts: