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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Ok ladies....roll up...my observations on dating after learning the hard way

328 replies

MakingItReal · 16/02/2016 15:00

Right, I have been dating for a few years now and I see the same problems come up over and over again - causing us unknown strife and heartache. I know there are exceptions to every rule - but in my experience and in every case I know the following is absolutely true:

Translating what he says

1. If a man says he is not looking for a relationship
THEN HE IS NOT LOOKING FOR A RELATIONSHIP. He's not going to fall in love with you and change his mind. He enjoys your company and all the free sex he has already decided that you are NOT going to be a long term relationship for him.

2. If a man says he is not looking for a relationship part 2
He is keeping his options open so that he can freely move on to the next person when he finds her and believe me he is still looking regardless of the fact he has told you that you are exclusive.

3. When he says "I don't want to hurt you
This means he is going to hurt you. He realises you like him and are invested and he is aware he is going to hurt you. Someone who wants to be with you would be telling you 'I'm not going to hurt you'. There is only a slight difference between the two phrases but the meaning of each is completely different.

5. You are more than just sex
This means you are just sex.
If he says it to you along with any of phrases 1 & 2 then you are DEFINITELY just sex. He is trying to convince you you mean more to him than just sex so that you stick around hoping for a relationship.

4. I might be ready for a relationship in the future
Yes, he will. But it won't be with you. If he wanted you to be his girlfriend, you already would be.

The Hard, Cold Facts:

If he wants you long term, you will know. Even shy men or men with commitment problems will not want to risk losing the woman they see as special above all others. So you will know.

If you are in a casual relationship or he is reluctant to commit and you want more the only solution is to walk away. If you stay, he will continue using you, and will value you less and less as time goes on. The only possible way for him to change his mind about you is to remove yourself from the equation.

If he has ishoos, it's not sexy, it's not a challenge, it's not a sign that you were destined to save him and win his love. It's a sign he will make a shitty partner, shitty father and shitty person to invest in. There is nothing sexier than a grown assed man with his shit together.

If he sends mixed messages, blows hot and cold, makes you feel unsure about what he wants and you find yourself posting on Mumsnet or Googling to try an figure out what he is thinking...RUN AWAY. It's not meant to be that complicated and a man that truly cares about how you feel is never going to make you wonder where you stand.

Never, ever, ever, ever underestimate the lengths a man will go to for sex. I hate to tarnish all men with that brush because they ain't all like it, but there are a scary proportion of men (younger ones especially) that will do anything to get sex off you. Espeically if it's good sex. They will jump on a plane, pay for expensive dates, stand outside your window singing Barry Manilow. And this ain't love. It's lust -and it means NOTHING except they really, really want to bang you.

Men, especially the younger and unevolved ones all have a strategy they have evolved to catch women. The good looking, charming ones might sweep you off your feet and you can see those coming - watch out for the underdog that wins you over by telling you a sob story about his alcoholic mother and how much he feels a "connection" with you. They're the worst, you never see them coming.

A good relationship makes you feel totally fullfilled. You don't wonder how they feel about you or why they haven't returned a message or why they didn't make plans for the weekend with you yet. They make you a priority and there's no grey area.

If he is up and down, hot and cold and all over you one minute leaving you confused the next then he is a prick. Without question. He's not scared, he's not busy, he's not anything- but a prick. Walk away, because he likes you...as an OPTION.

If he is still on dating sites logging on "just to check" after 12 dates or more...he is looking for someone better.

If he doesn't message or call you much one day but you notice he's been "online" quite a lot while telling you he is busy - then he is talking to someone else, a new prospect or perhaps someone else he has on the backburner.

Women and men are generally different in that we tend to bond more quickly /decide on one person -whereas they like to keep their options open. Never, ever, ever allow yourself to bond to a man before he's made it clear he's decided he wants you and only you.

If he is a bad boyfriend at the very start, he will be a thousand times worse by the time you have been with him a while and the honeymoon period is over.

If he doesn't make time to see you most weekends or ask you to meet his friends and family and be keen to meet yours or plan things to do together in advance or show in practical actions that he sees you as someone he wants to integtate into his life - they forget his words - his actions say it all.

We teach them how to treat us. So teach him that you are worth all the diamonds on earth by having boundaries in place to accept absolutely zero disrespect, selfishness or mind fuck behavior and he will either move on to the next person who is willing to accept his crap (making room for Mr Right to walk into yours) or he will look at you, realise what a strong, self respecting woman you are and realise that he had better step up his game. Either way you are a winner.

You never, ever, ever, ever, ever have anything to lose from walking away from a man who is giving you less than 100%. If he comes after you - you will be able to take back your power and he will know that he has to value and respect you to keep you. If he doesn't come after you - you will find someone better.

OP posts:
SoThatHappened · 17/02/2016 00:57

No. But alot wouldnt. Or agree hoping it will lead to more.

Destinysdaughter · 17/02/2016 01:07

Robinsons yes I agree with you, if that's what you're looking for, and there's nothing wrong with that as long as it's upfront and agreed on by both parties. But a lot of men do just want that but are not upfront about it, so it's the deception that's the problem.

Lanark2 · 17/02/2016 03:33

So hang on, if you are a guy, what do you do if you really like someone? Don't sleep with her, don't call her if you split up, don't be nice, don't be horrible, be nice and respectful and don't force her to talk to you, but do make it known that you need her, phone her even if she doesn't want to talk to you, and don't want to sleep with her, but do treat her like a friend but don't treat her like a friend, hold her but only if you don't think about sex, but do think about sex if she wants you to, don't argue with her or tease her, but do, and if you can comfortably talk to her friends but find talking to her more awkward because the stakes are higher, actually do the opposite and treat her like you don't care about her otherwise you'll be playing a game, so play a game that proves you are not playing a game, and anyway why bother because all you are is a dull-eyed sex machine who she doesn't really fancy?

This is like reverse grooming!

314ty · 17/02/2016 06:18

I agree. I went out with a man recently, very gentlemanly and respectful, treated me very well but he never phoned me. I broke my own rule of never sleeping with a man if you cant phone spontaneously for a chat.

Only thing is, i have an "i dont want a relationship" merchant who would take my call. But i havent slept with him

Callyourselfapilot · 17/02/2016 07:11

Fab post. It's on my notice board. Wish I'd seen this before starting to date someone who I've not slept with but who is selfish and blows hot and cold. I'm walking away as of today. Thank you.

Hissy · 17/02/2016 07:33

I agree! I immediately thought this needed to be a sticky. AND tattoed onto the Dating Thread for that matter too!

Doingmyheadin2016 · 17/02/2016 07:47

I needed to see this and I am going to reread it the next time I am feeling weak.

MakingItReal · 17/02/2016 08:08

What are you supposed to do if you're a man?

You're supposed to find someone else who wants casual sex if that's what you want. Not manipulate the feelings of someone whp doesn't want that.

And you're supposed to live with the consequences of your actions like everyone else learns to do as they depart toddler-dom.

If you act like a wanker to one of your mates - they stop wanting to be your mate.

If you show up late for work - you get the sack.

If you treat a woman in various ways like her feelings and needs don't matter -she goes to find someone else who's going to be better for her.

The only man this would ever affect was one who was acting like a twat so please don't feel sorry for them

OP posts:
springydaffs · 17/02/2016 08:52

Naze, I see (on another thread) you're in a relationship - so, out of interest, did you use the mean/keen tactics on her?

ocelot7 · 17/02/2016 09:04

You are a wise woman for yr tender years real :) and you put it so well - I'm 20 years older & still working all this out.... thru painful experience - ouch! :(

dangerrabbit · 17/02/2016 09:05

Great thread! You should start your own blog OP. Like your style.

MrsHathaway · 17/02/2016 10:17

Maybe that's the wrong word but, if you're genuine, respectful etc etc, it gets you nowhere.

Sigh.

Maybe you're going after the wrong women.

Doingmyheadin2016 · 17/02/2016 11:22

Yes I prefer your style to that awful baggage reclaim stuff.

JollyXmasJumper · 17/02/2016 12:02

Thanks OP and Robinson, great posts!

TheNaze there is a fine line between being a nice guy and being a bore/lacking in self-esteem. The latter is a definite turn-off but so is twattish behavior. Be yourself, focus on getting to know the person and you should be fine. Playing "nice guy" or "bad boy" will only make you look untrustworthy.

gglndn · 17/02/2016 13:00

This list is so good! Seriously, live by this ladies. When I finally decided that my time was more important than waiting around for the calls or texts that never came I started to have room for the right kind of guys in my life.

I also agree with Claraoswald36 - tell him if he is lax on the texting/ phone/ investment-front, the best ones and most smitten will be happy you told them.

MakingItReal · 17/02/2016 13:01

It's just not true that no woman in her right mind would ever agree to a solely sexual relationship, though.

I do think that is invariably true. Even the ones who want casual sex alone (which there are some) would still want honesty, trust, their boundaries and needs treated as equal.

I think men of the nature I am talkig about don't even want women who want casual sex. They prefer to play with the one who don't.

Silly games to make themselves feel good.

I know you've not had a man like this...but you really don't see it coming as easily as you think you would on paper.

OP posts:
314ty · 17/02/2016 14:34

I think that's true Makingitreal, there is a type of man who'd rather 'play' with a woman they know doesn't really want casual sex than find a woman whose feelings abut them are so-so.

amarmai · 17/02/2016 14:40

good advice,op. BTW do think that men are beginning to use mn as a way to get women?

gatewalker · 17/02/2016 14:41

I completely agree with all of your points, MakingItReal, though the one thing that I would question is men doing this entirely deliberately and with forethought and strategy. Some will do, and I would say there's psychopathy involved there.

For the most part, though, these games are tactical, regressed, hide-and-seek drivers for affection, attention, and 'love' - created with the same levels of dysfunction that they experienced growing up, and designed unconsciously to perpetuate just that. It's an endless, unconscious feedback loop.

BeautyIsTruth · 17/02/2016 14:44

I agree with most of this, I imagine it would save a lot of time and heartache. Although speaking from experience it's easier said than done, especially with low self-esteem. You have to be very firm, you can easily get reeled back in.

Re whatsapp, I'm sure I read on here that whatsapp can show you as being online even when you're not or got your phone switched off so your ex might not have been online all the time.

SoThatHappened · 17/02/2016 15:04

I think men of the nature I am talkig about don't evenwantwomen who want casual sex. They prefer to play with the one who don't.

Yes I cant imagine they'd like a woman who'd just screw them and dress and walk out. They want a bit more of an ego boost than that and some adoration.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 17/02/2016 15:16

Hmm I had a casual sex relationship once when I was working somewhere on a temporary contract. I was 100% clear I would be off back to my normal life after a couple of months, and, to be honest, he wasn't the type of guy who would have fitted in with my social circle at the time. (Though the sex was great).

Over a couple of months the guy went from being absolutely delighted and up for it, to quite needy and clingy. I was glad to see the back of him in the end. I think the emotionally involved thing can happen for both sexes.

SoThatHappened · 17/02/2016 15:16

They would also probably be fucked up enough to think that a woman who did just want casual sex was a "slag" while thinking it totally acceptable for them to just want casual sex.

SoThatHappened · 17/02/2016 15:18

Jesus tinkly I wonder if that would've worked on my last guy.

blindsider · 17/02/2016 15:25

Absolutely spot on!!

all of it I am somewhat ashamed to say.