Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Ok ladies....roll up...my observations on dating after learning the hard way

328 replies

MakingItReal · 16/02/2016 15:00

Right, I have been dating for a few years now and I see the same problems come up over and over again - causing us unknown strife and heartache. I know there are exceptions to every rule - but in my experience and in every case I know the following is absolutely true:

Translating what he says

1. If a man says he is not looking for a relationship
THEN HE IS NOT LOOKING FOR A RELATIONSHIP. He's not going to fall in love with you and change his mind. He enjoys your company and all the free sex he has already decided that you are NOT going to be a long term relationship for him.

2. If a man says he is not looking for a relationship part 2
He is keeping his options open so that he can freely move on to the next person when he finds her and believe me he is still looking regardless of the fact he has told you that you are exclusive.

3. When he says "I don't want to hurt you
This means he is going to hurt you. He realises you like him and are invested and he is aware he is going to hurt you. Someone who wants to be with you would be telling you 'I'm not going to hurt you'. There is only a slight difference between the two phrases but the meaning of each is completely different.

5. You are more than just sex
This means you are just sex.
If he says it to you along with any of phrases 1 & 2 then you are DEFINITELY just sex. He is trying to convince you you mean more to him than just sex so that you stick around hoping for a relationship.

4. I might be ready for a relationship in the future
Yes, he will. But it won't be with you. If he wanted you to be his girlfriend, you already would be.

The Hard, Cold Facts:

If he wants you long term, you will know. Even shy men or men with commitment problems will not want to risk losing the woman they see as special above all others. So you will know.

If you are in a casual relationship or he is reluctant to commit and you want more the only solution is to walk away. If you stay, he will continue using you, and will value you less and less as time goes on. The only possible way for him to change his mind about you is to remove yourself from the equation.

If he has ishoos, it's not sexy, it's not a challenge, it's not a sign that you were destined to save him and win his love. It's a sign he will make a shitty partner, shitty father and shitty person to invest in. There is nothing sexier than a grown assed man with his shit together.

If he sends mixed messages, blows hot and cold, makes you feel unsure about what he wants and you find yourself posting on Mumsnet or Googling to try an figure out what he is thinking...RUN AWAY. It's not meant to be that complicated and a man that truly cares about how you feel is never going to make you wonder where you stand.

Never, ever, ever, ever underestimate the lengths a man will go to for sex. I hate to tarnish all men with that brush because they ain't all like it, but there are a scary proportion of men (younger ones especially) that will do anything to get sex off you. Espeically if it's good sex. They will jump on a plane, pay for expensive dates, stand outside your window singing Barry Manilow. And this ain't love. It's lust -and it means NOTHING except they really, really want to bang you.

Men, especially the younger and unevolved ones all have a strategy they have evolved to catch women. The good looking, charming ones might sweep you off your feet and you can see those coming - watch out for the underdog that wins you over by telling you a sob story about his alcoholic mother and how much he feels a "connection" with you. They're the worst, you never see them coming.

A good relationship makes you feel totally fullfilled. You don't wonder how they feel about you or why they haven't returned a message or why they didn't make plans for the weekend with you yet. They make you a priority and there's no grey area.

If he is up and down, hot and cold and all over you one minute leaving you confused the next then he is a prick. Without question. He's not scared, he's not busy, he's not anything- but a prick. Walk away, because he likes you...as an OPTION.

If he is still on dating sites logging on "just to check" after 12 dates or more...he is looking for someone better.

If he doesn't message or call you much one day but you notice he's been "online" quite a lot while telling you he is busy - then he is talking to someone else, a new prospect or perhaps someone else he has on the backburner.

Women and men are generally different in that we tend to bond more quickly /decide on one person -whereas they like to keep their options open. Never, ever, ever allow yourself to bond to a man before he's made it clear he's decided he wants you and only you.

If he is a bad boyfriend at the very start, he will be a thousand times worse by the time you have been with him a while and the honeymoon period is over.

If he doesn't make time to see you most weekends or ask you to meet his friends and family and be keen to meet yours or plan things to do together in advance or show in practical actions that he sees you as someone he wants to integtate into his life - they forget his words - his actions say it all.

We teach them how to treat us. So teach him that you are worth all the diamonds on earth by having boundaries in place to accept absolutely zero disrespect, selfishness or mind fuck behavior and he will either move on to the next person who is willing to accept his crap (making room for Mr Right to walk into yours) or he will look at you, realise what a strong, self respecting woman you are and realise that he had better step up his game. Either way you are a winner.

You never, ever, ever, ever, ever have anything to lose from walking away from a man who is giving you less than 100%. If he comes after you - you will be able to take back your power and he will know that he has to value and respect you to keep you. If he doesn't come after you - you will find someone better.

OP posts:
MakingItReal · 18/02/2016 11:17

Real "nice guys" are not that nice.

the "nicest" guy I know has firm boundaries, clear expectations, honest interaction and high self confidence and respct for others.

the kind of nice guys we are talking about here, aren't nice...they're manipulative

OP posts:
TheNaze73 · 18/02/2016 11:31

This whole thread, as a bloke has been a real eye opener, I'm so pleased to have read it. From some of the comments, I'm almost embarrassed to be male. This has really made me see some balance & that it isn't just women who blow hot & cold, want you just for sex & as a meal voucher. Fascinating stuff. Can't say it will change me or anything, too scarred from some batshit crazy women but, at least I know now it isn't just women who lie, manipulate etc etc

SoThatHappened · 18/02/2016 11:36

Meal voucher....fuck that made me laugh out loud. Literally.

One of my boyfriends bought cinema tickets once and I nearly died, something he had never ever done. Then I bought us drinks. He said subtract the drink you bought from the ticket I bought and you owe me 50p. I am NOT joking.

I've always had guys who carve up bills, tell me it is my turn, keep score with money, even though they have all earned more than me.

I get the hot / cold guys who are indifferent. They dont really care if they see me or not and they'd rather spend time with anyone else but me. I'm the bottom of the pile.

Maybe I should become a total bitch. Maybe guys like that.

confusedaboutlostpassword · 18/02/2016 11:46

I'm sorry, I haven't read the entire thread, but read AND LOVE, the original post! I think I should print it, frame it, and hang it. And, pass it on to all my single friends. Publish it. Definitely! Thank you :)

RobinsonsSquash · 18/02/2016 11:47

There is no one thing or group of things that guys like. Rule one of dating: people are individuals. Do not ascribe traits or characters to people by gender.

(Speaking as someone who dates men and women, here.)

TheNaze73 · 18/02/2016 11:56

SoThatHappened I was shaking my head in disbelief at the 50p story. That is sooooo bad!

Destinysdaughter · 18/02/2016 11:59

The book 'Why men love bitches' makes interesting reading. It's not about being a bitch but about having firm boundaries, respecting yourself, keeping your own life, friendships and interests going whilst seeing a man and prioritising your own dignity. Well worth a read!

Rummikub · 18/02/2016 12:01

I'm on OLD, I'm good at it as I don't care at the start. I don't over invest. Have a low tolerance for bullshit. But I don't know these guys so it's easy. I am cool/ reserved/ aloof.
It's once I reciprocate that the problems start.

Regarding self esteem, I think it's a combination of experiences and propensity to react in a certain way that can build or destroy self esteem. I've always had low self esteem. I didnt grow up in a nurturing family. I am wary of people who want to be my friend. Why would they? That took awhile to change, thankfully it has through mainly good experience.

My self esteem hit rock bottom when my ex h had an affair and I think that's affected me badly re esteem.

314ty · 18/02/2016 12:01

Women don't lie, cheat and manipulate as a rule when it comes to sex and relationships thenaze......... Let's talk venn diagrams here (is that what I mean? I hope so. For most women, most of the time, that group of men they'd happily sleep with overlaps fairly neatly with the group of men they'd be interested in pursuing a relationship with. (when I say relationship I just mean respect, communication, exclusivity - I don't mean a serious relationship necessarily)

Of course there are exceptions to this so no need to race to disagree, I'm talking about generally here. And the reason for the disconnect. For a man, that group of women he'd be interested in having a relationship with is in his head mainly if it exists at all it's microscopic, and the group of women he wants to sleep with, probably a vast group but even so, it still hardly overlaps at all with the group of women he'd consider trying to see where things led with.

SoThatHappened · 18/02/2016 12:03

TheNaze I shit you not. He was an insufferable selfish pig.

But the problem I have to address is that I stay in crappy relationships that I know are not making me happy hoping they will change and I am too scared to leave.

I've been alone for most of my adult life too. I was single for 9 years at one point as I just didnt go and look for people.

I should become a total bitch.

MakingItReal · 18/02/2016 12:12

I was chatting to a close male friend the other night about this, and he says that it should not be so complicated.

I told him that was easy for him to say - because if he goes on an online date with a woman - generally -GENERALLY speaking in 99% of cases if she wants to see him again it's because she sees potential. Like...she makes it straight forward. She isn't going to think "hmm, no real potential but if I act like I like him maybe I can fuck him for a while so I can look for something better".

But as he said...on the flip side of that coin, it is easier for woment o get sex / dates and attention so perhaps it's not amazingly easy on the men either but I am just saying that while men might have to cope with honest rejection, struggle to find someone and all of that - it is not as mentally damaing as coping with mind fuck.

Mind fuck is horrible, and I do think largely speaking this is down to men wanting their cake and eat it.

OP posts:
SoThatHappened · 18/02/2016 12:12

For most women, most of the time, that group of men they'd happily sleep with overlaps fairly neatly with the group of men they'd be interested in pursuing a relationship with.

Yup.

For a man, that group of women he'd be interested in having a relationship with is in his head mainly if it exists at all it's microscopic, and the group of women he wants to sleep with, probably a vast group but even so, it still hardly overlaps at all with the group of women he'd consider trying to see where things led with.

Yup.

Destinysdaughter · 18/02/2016 12:16

^^

That's so true and makes a lot of sense!

MakingItReal · 18/02/2016 12:17

And you know what...the fact that men aren;t there analysing 24/7 whether or not the woman they are seeing really likes them, posting endlessly on Mumsnet about mixed signals and buying / reading the bevvy of books and blogs written to help us decode - the fact is that for them it is simpler. If the woman doesn't like him that much, she tells him or she shows it. Generally consistently.

Because most women, would be pretty repulsed at spending time with /shagging or snogging someone they didn't really like. But men can do it.

The reason we need to decode them, is because they are largely not straigh forward - because doing so would restrict them to having sex with just the miniscule pool of women they have deemed suitable for a long term future - and frankly - they want to keep shagging us.

Not all men are like this, but a lot are!

OP posts:
TheNaze73 · 18/02/2016 12:38

I really don't think men need decoding. It is so simple. As Niecy Nash said in her book, keep the stomach full & the balls empty & that's it. It's so simple.

SoThatHappened · 18/02/2016 12:41

Because most women, would be pretty repulsed at spending time with /shagging or snogging someone they didn't really like. But men can do it.

The reason we need to decode them, is because they are largely not straight forward - because doing so would restrict them to having sex with just the miniscule pool of women they have deemed suitable for a long term future - and frankly - they want to keep shagging us.

And that is exactly what happened to me!

I couldnt pretend to like someone and shag them if I didnt feel anything.

He could though. So while he didnt want a relationship with me...he knew he had to keep me sweet to get sex off me.

SoThatHappened · 18/02/2016 12:53

keep the stomach full & the balls empty & that's it. It's so simple.

That is bullshit. I cant believe I am going to say this but in all of my relationships, never once have I refused sex. Ever.

I have always had a bigger sex drive than them. I get turned down for sex rather than the other way around. I got dumped and not given a relatinoship by latest guy as he said we have great sex but doesnt a see a future with me. He kept highlighting how good the sex was.

Oysterbabe · 18/02/2016 13:01

As Niecy Nash said in her book, keep the stomach full & the balls empty & that's it. It's so simple.

How horribly offensive. My DH has needs and desires just as varied and complex as my own. I don't think it helps anyone to think of them all as shallow idiots.

MakingItReal · 18/02/2016 13:04

It is, sorry, complete bullshit.

OP posts:
MakingItReal · 18/02/2016 13:07

Anyway, silly statements aside, I don't think I am talking about decoding men in general

It's decoding men who are giving confusing signals.

If they are in touch with you and explaining and showing in words and actions where the land lies, decoding is not required. And I have met plenty of men and had plenty of relationships where decoding it not required.

And in every case where I needed to "decode" in the first place I'd have been better of running for the hills

People who care about you, want you to feel secure and know what they are thinking.

OP posts:
SoThatHappened · 18/02/2016 13:07

If all we had to do was feed men and fuck them, I wouldnt have any problem finding a man to settle down with....and yet....here I am and here the OP is and countless others.

MakingItReal · 18/02/2016 13:09

I'm not looking for a man to settle down with.

For now, just looking to explore and enjoy life - free from wasting any of it wracking my brains over whey some idiot is saying he really likes me and acting like he doesn't.

OP posts:
SoThatHappened · 18/02/2016 13:15

Year you're right Makingitreal for now I would just like a man to date exclusively without wondering if he is fucking others, if he likes me, if he is lying to me, when i get sick of him and walk, he comes back.....etc.

I cant even get a dating scenario right.

LilacSpunkMonkey · 18/02/2016 13:22

Naz

I've reported your offensive bollocks.

RobinsonsSquash · 18/02/2016 13:50

Why is the statement about stomach full/balls empty any more offensive than the rest of the gender stereotyping that's going on on this thread?

Genuine question, not trying to be snarky.

Swipe left for the next trending thread