Breaking the mental connection between

[SirisSister]

I've come to realise that I have a very strong mental connection between my own self esteem/self worth and the views of one man. It's more subtle than self esteem connected generally with opinion of others. Does anyone have any advice how to break this connection?

The whole story is a long horrific tale of low self esteem. The too long/didn't read version: I have had an on and off relationship with an emotionally abusive man for years. It wasn't really a relationship it was more a fall back girl type thing. Every post I've ever read on here about FWB/limerence/obession chimes with me. I finally made the break properly and did really well with no contact for over a year. One time he got lucky and contacted me in a weak moment. I saw him. It was all perfect and he said he'd changed and wanted to be with me properly. Like a fool I fell for it. Saw him again. He was so lovely. Slept with him. Since then not heard anything. We slept together on New Years Eve so it's now 4 weeks.

That is not actually why I'm posting. I've done no contact with him and I can do it again. It's getting back on the wagon.

My problem is that since then I've been really depressed because I keep thinking it's my fault that he doesn't want me. That if I were better, thinner, had more money, more social status, more charming, more social contacts that then he would want me. The detail doesn't really matter.

I feel like I must be a worthless person because he [a man who professes to like me, who I have great sexual chemistry with, seem to get on so well with] doesn't want me. And not just "doesn't want me" but actually can't even be bothered to type an email, text me or pick up the phone. I feel sick when I think about it and am torturing myself imagining him with other better women.

How can I break this connection between his dissmissal of me as a human and my own self worth?

(I'm limerent or obsessed with him so see him as a far better person than me. )

Even I can see how insane this is. I was looking at photos of him and thinking (with a pathetic 'melting inside' feeling) "he is so perfect". I rationally know he's not perfect, but in my mind he really does seem perfect to me especially physically.

I think you and I need to actually get them as bfs....although we cant.

If we did get them, I think we would be sorely disappointed.

What is limerance?

Truth is they are sexually attracted to you but don't like you, thats how they behave the way they do. If they don't like you after the mind blowing sex well then they are never going to like you!
The perfect exterior, lifestyle , etc all adds to the wonderful package that he represents in your mind.
You are basically a convenient "place" to go when he's bored or desperate, it is never going to change because he doesn't like you in the first place, becoming a goddess won't change that.
Before having any therapy just get real for a moment and realise it will never change even if you were to change.

It sounds to me like he's done a number on you to make you feel this way. Manipulative arses like him can't have healthy relationships.

Please do yourself a huge favour and move on. Spend time alone, reset your twunt rader. And then onwards and upwards. You'll know when someone worthy of you comes along.

We know that Hazel what we cant fathom is why we are good enough for sex but nothing more.

What is it about us they dont like.

blindsider

What is limerance?

Limerence is a term coined by Dorothy Tennov (sp? can't be bothered to google to check!) to describe a certain kind of emotional feeling towards another person- its sort of like a crush or an infatuation but much more intense, bordering onto a mental condition.

Limerence sufferers are "in love with" (limerent about) another person - usually referred to as the LO (Limerent Object). Typically the condition thrives on uncertainty and on/off reciprocation of feelings by the LO.

The Limerence sufferer will almost feel high when they spend time with the LO or their feelings seem reciprocated. Intrusive obsessional thinking about the LO to the exclusion of everything is another feature (so eg. will waste time sitting around fantasising about the LO than doing stuff that actually matters like their job )

There's a lot written on it and sufferers seem to have a brutal time of it. A friend of mine was a serious victim.

What is it about us they dont like.

Well, men like this quite often despise women. So as long as you're a woman he will treat you this way. Do you still think you can "win him over" OP?

It was only when I realised this that I began to free myself from the kind of "relationship" you're describing here.

Well, men like this quite often despise women. So as long as you're a woman he will treat you this way. Do you still think you can "win him over" OP?

I cant speak for the OP.

I can see what you mean....he has a history of cheating in every major relationship. He is moody, sullen, complicated, takes his moods out on your for nothing and then blames you for causing them. When you challenge him on his behaviour, he just shuts down and refuses to discuss anything.

So I could never discuss how things were...he wouldnt.

His sexual practices (which I wont detail) make me think he does see women as objects.

All of this and I wasnt even his gf. So you're right. Some time down the line when the shine has worn off...I can imagine him treating a gf like shit. Just the way he treated the others.

and yet...I still want him. If I could explain that, I would. But I cant.

Also the stalking is driving me nuts on whatsapp.

First valentines with the one he dumped me for....he was on whatsapp all night. From about 4pm right through until midnight.

Well his gf wasnt with him then so where was she. I feel so stupid for even looking.

"What is it about us they dont like".

Why do I prefer George Clooney to Bradd Pitt? who knows? but I wouldn't say no to a snog with either of them! But I prefer one to the other

Should it matter why, it is just someone's personal preference, probably with no reasonable explanation why.

Why if you have any pride would you let yourself be used (I hesitate to use the word degraded) in this way.
Many of us have behaved this way in our teens, but it is something with hindsight that you look back on and cringe at the way you behaved.

You really do just need someone to come along and make you feel worthwhile, it may not be the love of your life, but someone that shows you some respect.

Why do I prefer George Clooney to Bradd Pitt? who knows? but I wouldn't say no to a snog with either of them! But I prefer one to the other
Should it matter why, it is just someone's personal preference, probably with no reasonable explanation why.

I posted about this above. I think that in most cases you probably can answer "why" but that isn't the real issue here. It is pointless to pretend that there isn't an answer to the "why not him/her" question because there usually is.

George Clooney & Brad Pitt are poor examples in this case anyway because you don't know them and are just assessing based on what they look like. Here the OP has already said that the man in question finds her attractive and they have a lot of chemistry. (But even if you are just talking physically you usually can answer why too: George Clooney is more masculine looking than Brad Pitt who has a very female nose; Prefer darker men; prefer older men and so on).

The real issue here is that the "why" doesn't really matter because all OP needs to know is that on any view this man is not good for her. He is making her feel bad about herself.

So even if she could answer the "why" and she could do something about it (say he says "well I'd only seriously date a blonde woman who was a size zero" (peroxide and a diet) as opposed to "well I'd only seriously date the daughter of an earl or an aristocrat who stood to inherit a family pile" (nothing to be done if you are not an aristocrat), it won't make a blind bit of difference because even if he dated her seriously, he would still be making her feel worthless because that is who he is.

Answering why is not the issue but it is wrong to pretend that there isn't really likely to be an answer "why" as there usually is.

Why if you have any pride would you let yourself be used (I hesitate to use the word degraded) in this way. Many of us have behaved this way in our teens, but it is something with hindsight that you look back on and cringe at the way you behaved.

Dont think that Siri and I dont feel this.

I am ashamed that I am jumping out of my skin wanting a man who only sees me as a back up fuck.

But I can't explain how I feel about it. He hasn't been particularly nice to any of his exes that I can see and yet. ....

Here I am terrified he will suddenly become a decent man for the new one. But seems unlikely given his track record.

HazelBite

Truth is they are sexually attracted to you but don't like you, thats how they behave the way they do. If they don't like you after the mind blowing sex well then they are never going to like you!
You are basically a convenient "place" to go when he's bored or desperate, it is never going to change because he doesn't like you in the first place, becoming a goddess won't change that.

I'm not sure that he doesn't "like" me - as when I see him we seem to get on really well. I get he could be faking it but we do have stuff in common. I totally agree that I'm a place for him when he's bored or desperate though. I'm sure if you saw a film of us on a date together, you would think this was a perfect couple; that's how it looks. What's missing is any compulsion or interest on his part to see me regularly (or at all ). He is so take it or leave it about me and it's very painful.

Squishee

It sounds to me like he's done a number on you to make you feel this way. Manipulative arses like him can't have healthy relationships

I don't know if he did it deliberately or if it was a by-product of his general behaviour. He can be very manipulative that's true.

I definitely can feel that my self esteem is really rock bottom and getting worse. This is the problem I was posting about. I get this round and round feeling of "If HE doesn't want me, who will?". I can't get over it and it is spiralling downwards. It's affecting me beyond this "relationship" with him though. It's making me avoid any kind of interaction (other than for work) with any men because I fear rejection. He isn't interested in me as a person (even though we have this strong chemistry and great sex and seem to get on well) so why would anyone else.

I can see what is happening to me. It's like this:

1. I love him so always want to see him;
2. He contacts me; we have a great date and hot sex.
3. For about two days, I am on a high and think it is all ok and wonder why I ever tried to stop seeing him.
4. Then it becomes apparent I'm not going to hear from him.
5. He by his no contact every day is rejecting me, by his lack of interest in me rejects the core of me; 6)His rejection of me makes me feel bad about myself, like there is something wrong with me.
6. My self esteem sinks even lower than last time (as the starting point was lower).
7. I feel as if I can get him to like me, pay attention to me, care about me, value me I will feel better. Like this is the only thing that will fix this damage.
8. So I try to get him to like me, pay attention to me, value me. The efforts this has involved are toe curlingly embarrassing but sometimes it has limited success in getting his attention but it never works in terms of getting him to value me or care about me.
9. I then feel even more rejected and decide to go no contact and fight against contacting him but then it all goes back to number 1) and round we go again.

I think deep inside I have a sort of panicking sick-to-my-stomach feeling that I can only get rid of this damage to my self esteem if he comes round to see how great I am. That this is the only cure.

I'm in such a bad way. I really dispise myself.

I'm not sure that he doesn't "like" me - as when I see him we seem to get on really well. I get he could be faking it but we do have stuff in common. I totally agree that I'm a place for him when he's bored or desperate though.

I agree with this also. he must like her as mine must like me.

When we are together, like Siri, it is never just a bang and go. If it was, I would refuse to allow that. All of our meetings were like date nights with a boyfriend. We talk about lots of things, not just superficial, family issues, work issues, along with fun stuff and we have a good laugh together, hot sex.

Hot sex is always followed by an evening of dinner out (get dressed and takes me to a lovely local restaurant), then after dinner, drinks in the lounge and talking until the wee hours together. He genuinely seems to like my company and I am sure he does like me as a person.

We only ever have sex once twice, very rare it happens anymore than that. So it isnt as if he is just shagging me every which way and using me as an object when he sees me.

So what I cant fathom, and it seems Siri cant either, is that we have good sex, we like each other as people.....why dont they love us. What is missing?

Sounds like what he is doing is much more pathological than just using you for sex, which I suspected anyway because of your reaction to the situation.

What he seems to be seeking is feeding of the intimacy you are willing to share. A man like this will never ever be being as vulnerable with you as you believe they are, they will put a huge amount of effort into sucking as much vulnerability and intimacy out of you as possible.

The effect is that your experience of them is beyond anything anyone else can hope to provide (because it is not real or sustainable) and therefore measure up to, leaving you fixated on them. But the very last thing they would ever want is to be really intimate with you or anyone else.

How they behave with others is specifically tailored to get them to be as intimate and vulnerable as possible with the smallest investment for themselves, that's why you see differences.

They feed off the supply of your attention, negative and positive and they deliberately fuck with your heads to allow it to continue.

And no, they don't actually like you, or respect you or care for you in anyway at all. You are like toys.

And this;
I think you and I need to actually get them as bfs....although we cant.

Is actual madness. You need a sustained period of no contact and to do some reading on narcissism and trauma bonds.

As well as some good psychotherapy. Women who are vulnerable to this usually have deep seated issues from childhood that makes them more vulnerable.

What he seems to be seeking is feeding of the intimacy you are willing to share.

I think mine used me to make him feel better about himself when he didnt have anyone else.

But now he has waltzed off with a real gf. :(

Offred

When I said

I think you and I need to actually get them as bfs....although we cant.

Did you read the rest? I also said:

If we did get them, I think we would be sorely disappointed.

What I meant by that is, by actually getting mine, I think that is what would cure me. He wouldnt stay on the pedestal I have him on. But becuase I always really liked him and cant have him. Here we are.

What I meant is, no, it wouldn't cure you. You'd be trapped in a shit relationship you couldn't get out of.

Maybe you are right.

But the problem is, I dont know what he is like as a bf. I hardly think he is nice to anyone as he cheated on all his exes.

if I actually got him and could call him and could see him whenever I liked and meet his friends, the euphoria I had at being able to see him would surely wear off and being with him would become a routine relationship.

I would hope it would cure me of it.

It's immaterial with a man like this whether you are called a gf or not. You can never have a man like this and you can never have a routine relationship with a man like this.

If you were his GF the highs and lows of being with him would be worse and harder to get over than things are now.

Put all ideas that you can cure it by being called his GF out of your mind.

He certainly would never let you call him whenever you want!