Breaking the mental connection between

[SirisSister]

I've come to realise that I have a very strong mental connection between my own self esteem/self worth and the views of one man. It's more subtle than self esteem connected generally with opinion of others. Does anyone have any advice how to break this connection?

The whole story is a long horrific tale of low self esteem. The too long/didn't read version: I have had an on and off relationship with an emotionally abusive man for years. It wasn't really a relationship it was more a fall back girl type thing. Every post I've ever read on here about FWB/limerence/obession chimes with me. I finally made the break properly and did really well with no contact for over a year. One time he got lucky and contacted me in a weak moment. I saw him. It was all perfect and he said he'd changed and wanted to be with me properly. Like a fool I fell for it. Saw him again. He was so lovely. Slept with him. Since then not heard anything. We slept together on New Years Eve so it's now 4 weeks.

That is not actually why I'm posting. I've done no contact with him and I can do it again. It's getting back on the wagon.

My problem is that since then I've been really depressed because I keep thinking it's my fault that he doesn't want me. That if I were better, thinner, had more money, more social status, more charming, more social contacts that then he would want me. The detail doesn't really matter.

I feel like I must be a worthless person because he [a man who professes to like me, who I have great sexual chemistry with, seem to get on so well with] doesn't want me. And not just "doesn't want me" but actually can't even be bothered to type an email, text me or pick up the phone. I feel sick when I think about it and am torturing myself imagining him with other better women.

How can I break this connection between his dissmissal of me as a human and my own self worth?

(I'm limerent or obsessed with him so see him as a far better person than me. )

Yes but HolgerDanske I never used to be like this. I used to be happy, bright, full of self confidence, think I was amazing. I don't get why my whole self worth has become hooked up to THIS man's opinion of me - but for some reason it has.

That is what I'm asking about - how can I break this mental grip? I want to go back to how I was before. I don't think it is a general "self worth" problem because I was ok before. It's something about this interraction with him that has brought me down.

No contact didn't work, nor has anything else I've tried (even the list reading which I'd forgotten about). What can I do???? What? I want my old self back but I haven't seen her for years.

I expect the problem as already there but you were masking it well. Perhaps you told yourself a story that convinced your self that you felt that way, but you probably didn't deep down where it actually mattered. Which is why, when he didn't want you, it fell away and now you are stuck.

You say you want to be like him. What qualities dies he have that you feel are lacking in yourself? We are often attracted to people who have certain qualities we feel we lack. How could you cultivate those qualities in yourself?

I think you should arrange to have him taken out

Short period of mourning. Job done.

if you can't process all the advice and logic, then do try therapy and/or hypnosis. Worth a try as nothing else is helping.

What qualities dies he have that you feel are lacking in yourself?

That's an interesting question.

He is ultra charming and very very self confident. I can be charming when I try hard but he has it really naturally. Equally I fake self confidence, most people would think I am very confident but it's all a front really.

He seems completely unemotional. I don't think he is capable of caring about anyone. He is immune to being hurt. I am very emotional and wish I could be more like him. It must be nice to live a life not really caring about anyone else but yourself and to skip on your merry way without a shred of guilt that you may have upset someone or been rude I wish I could live life the way he does. I don't think he has a care in the world.

He is very successful and at the top of his field, a real leader.

He is also very very wealthy. I do envy that and know I could work all the hours god sends and never make anything in my whole life that would equate to his life. My life's earnings probably wouldn't even pay for a deposit on his house, let's put it that way.

I don't think any of these things are things I can achieve.

re hypnosis

Does anyone have any recommendations for a hypnotist or a therapist they think might help my sorry little life - South East or London?

It sounds like you've put him on a bit of a pedestal and are comparing yourself to him unfavourably. No wonder you're feeling bad about yourself. I do this too, I'm attracted to confident, charming, successful men. However, scratch the surface and they've got the same insecurities as the rest of us and are often just living their lives trying to prove themselves and keep their own demons at bay.

Someone who has genuine self esteem would NOT be as 'unemotional' as you describe this man to be. That's not a normal trait to have. Can you try to see him as a mirror for you and what you may be lacking deep down inside? Not saying you are lacking in reality but this man has had such a strong effect on you, see it as an opportunity for it to reveal things to yourself?

Sorry if that doesn't make sense, I know what I mean but it's hard to explain!

Somebody help me out here, is itxa psychopath or a sociopath she's describing here ?

No. She is describing a player who doesn't give a shit about her.

The rest is in her own head.

from what I've read on here he could have a touch of narcissism -well a lot, but I don't think he's a sociopath

Warning: I am exhausted so haven't taken in all the posts and this is going to be mega-short. If it touches something in you, I'll come back & sort out a reply tomorrow!

I think:

You've set him up as a kind of godlike symbol. To you, his opinion of you is everything: worth more than your own opinion, your family members' or your friends'. If he bestows a shower of appreciation on you, you feel validated (rather like the worshippers who think their rituals made it rain). If he's detached, cold or abandons you, you feel forsaken by the only thing that ever had meaning.

It's all terribly deep & symbolic but, at bottom, you've replaced your sense of who you are with an imaginary version or symbol of someone 'greater' than yourself.

• See you tomorrow :)

I could have written this.

This especially.

He seems completely unemotional. I don't think he is capable of caring about anyone. He is immune to being hurt. I am very emotional and wish I could be more like him. It must be nice to live a life not really caring about anyone else but yourself and to skip on your merry way without a shred of guilt that you may have upset someone or been rude I wish I could live life the way he does. I don't think he has a care in the world.

Did we date the same guy? In the same weird way, his utter selfishness and callous disregard for anyone but himself has made me wish I could be like him.

Why do you want to be like him? He sounds a total player and very careless with you.

You sound as though you dint like yourself much tbh. Instead of wallowing in misery about him, make a big list of how you would like to be, and work on that, visualise- every aspect of you and get busy working on it. Becoming Brazilian will be tricky, you should leave that off.

Hopefully, whilst you are busy going to the gym, going to art galleries, learning tennis or whatever it is you want, you'll meet someone else. Or at least like yourself enough to ignore him.

GarlicBake

You've set him up as a kind of godlike symbol. To you, his opinion of you is everything: worth more than your own opinion, your family members' or your friends'. If he bestows a shower of appreciation on you, you feel validated (rather like the worshippers who think their rituals made it rain). If he's detached, cold or abandons you, you feel forsaken by the only thing that ever had meaning.

It's all terribly deep & symbolic but, at bottom, you've replaced your sense of who you are with an imaginary version or symbol of someone 'greater' than yourself.

The first paragraph sounds exactly true. I am in a worshipper state with him.

lavenderhoney

You sound as though you dint like yourself much tbh. Instead of wallowing in misery about him, make a big list of how you would like to be, and work on that, visualise- every aspect of you and get busy working on it. Becoming Brazilian will be tricky, you should leave that off.

LOL @ Brazilian - that wasn't me that was another poster!

But a few posts up I did make a list of how I want to be like him and most of it is unachievable for me. For example, I'd like to be rolling in millions of pounds but short of having some insane Dragons Den moment of inspiration, I don't think that is realistic for me. I'm not a banker with a big hedge fund and a pile of bonuses round the corner. I'm not Billy Gates or any IT/tech style wizard. I don't have a wealthy aged relative about to leave me all their worldly goods.

SoThat

Did we date the same guy?

Who knows? I think he sleeps with anyone he can seduce so it's perfectly possible! I think the law of averages means it's unlikely though. The world is a big place and their are a lot of hot/cold types out there judging by threads on here.

OP, I'm so sorry to hear you're feeling this way. I wouldn't normally comment on relationships but this thread really hit home for me so I've NC and hope I can at least sympathise with your plight, if not offer some help.

I had this exact situation spanning what seemed like an age. I met him when I was still a student and he was a few years older and working successfully. Very handsome, tall etc, from a titled (and landed and extremely rich) family, academic, confident, charming, very socially connected etc. I was very beautiful but lacking in confidence and although I was/am academic, I didn't feel it (I now know I am actually much brighter than him, he didn't like that!). In short, he was everything I believed I wanted and needed. He was also incredible in bed.

He chased me and we dated but in an odd way (I now know this was very unhealthy) which left me very low. The number of times he let me down and I let him makes my blood boil now but I thought I loved him. We'd stop seeing each other only for him to call and I'd go back.

After graduation, on my first day of my career in the City he sent the most enormous bunch of OTT flowers to my office. I thought this was a sweet gesture, now I can see it was like he was marking his territory, and although he didn't want me, he wanted others to know he was there.

I only stopped obsessing over him truly when I met my (to be) husband. You seem to like confident, successful men, as I did too. Physically he and my DH are not alike, but my husband is massively successful, confident and a true one off. But what I didn't know before, was that being like this doesn't mean you have the right to treat others badly, as I had been treated. My husband is a proper gentleman and has only ever made me feel good. He's never highlighted what I felt was wrong with me, but has helped my confidence amazingly. He's much more successful (and has made his life himself) than the guy who tortured me but is humble with it.

I know part of my willingness to allow him to treat me in the way he did was down to my stupid idea as to what I 'needed' in a man. I am the only of my siblings, by choice I should add, not to board at public school, and I stupidly felt I needed to be socially 'smarter'. This allowed him to use me as he did. I had a very successful city career but I couldn't earn even a fraction of what my DH makes but that doesn't make me feel insecure or like I need to change myself because he doesn't make me feel that way. DH is freakishly good at what he does and I could never do it.

The man who tormented me is now in public office so I've had to get used to seeing him on TV and in the papers but I know what I felt for him wasn't true and that he wasn't a good person. I look at him now and see him as he is. I think we can have a set idea of what we think we want but what we need is very different. I'm so thankful for my DH and I'm not suggesting you have to try to date someone who isn't your type, but know that being confident and charming doesn't mean you have to treat others like shit.

The reason you feel addicted to him is because he's giving you "intermittent variable reinforcement". Google it if you're feeling intellectual. In a nutshell, it's been proved that humans become more attached to a behaviour when we know it will reward us, but not how much or how often. It's why we keep putting money in the slot machine - and why we don't think about the value of a plentiful resource like air, but go nuts for a scarce and unpredictable one like truffles.

When he deigns to grace you with his company, he gives you a massive reward like marvellous sex or delightful company. Then he withdraws it, and you don't know when your next reward will be. You keep thinking about how to make the rewards come more often and more predictably. This is exactly how intermittent reward works. I can watch my cat falling for it - I usually give her a treat when I come back inside but, if I don't, she'll start hanging about on the stairs and pretending I've just come in. She's trying to work out what she does to trigger the treat. In fact, it's nothing to do with her: I just decided not to give it this time.

The reason you feel worshipful or invested in him is partly because of the addiction, and also something further back. It's most likely that a parent or other influential person in your childhood used intermittent rewards & variable punishment to make you feel you were never quite 'good enough' to be worth consistent rewards.

Because children literally depend on their adults for survival, they do see them as godlike - this has also been proved, and holds true until our early twenties normally. The child, then, internalises their adult's perceived judgement on them as 'not good enough'. No matter how hard she tries to secure consistent & predictable rewards, nothing works - for the same reason that my cat's stair-hovering doesn't get the treat! But a child can't know this; her adult is all-knowing, therefore she isn't good enough and must keep trying.

Unpicking the whole business might be a complicated task, but for starters it's a very good idea to give yourself rewards whenever you realise you haven't thought about Shithead for an hour, a day, a week or whatever. Lavish yourself with praise & comfort, do stuff that really makes you laugh, surround yourself with the love of friends and remind yourself you love you!

Not sure whether any of these will be helpful this minute, but I think they'll be good things to have in your knowledge bank:

outofthefog.website/what-not-to-do-1/2015/12/3/intermittent-reinforcement

outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/work-on-yourself

www.unk.com/blog/miracle-question-examples/

Garlic that's v insightful thanks for taking the time to write that!

I was joking OP.....you spoke of your guy having lots of money and a house and mine lives in a shared rented flat and saves nothing and squanders his money.

Lavenderhoney
That made me laugh as I LITERALLY did all of this...

Hopefully, whilst you are busy going to the gym, going to art galleries, learning tennis or whatever it is you want, you'll meet someone else.

1. The gym....met no one. Everyone does their classes after work and leaves.
2. Tennis...met mainly married couples giving it a go.
3. Art galleries... you cant walk up to strangers and say want a date and no one did with me either.

It doesn't work.

The reason you feel worshipful or invested in him is partly because of the addiction, and also something further back. It's most likely that a parent or other influential person in your childhood used intermittent rewards & variable punishment to make you feel you were never quite 'good enough' to be worth consistent rewards.

Garlic this is true. With my immediate family I was terrifed of my mother. She was randomly cruel for utterly no reason. For example, one of the children at school broke one of my props for a school play that I had taken in. It was a cheap, crappy paper fan to use on my role as a Chinese Dancer, the school play had a Chinese theme. One of the boys tore it deliberately and I was furious. I went home to my mum to show her, and of course expected her to be angry, complain to the teacher for me, etc. Upon showing my mum the fan, she screamed OH NO at the top of her lungs and slapped around the head really fucking hard. I stood sobbing trying to say a boy broke it and when I told her that she said why did you let him near it you stupid child....and so it descended into sobbing and telling her I was sorry. It was a piece of paper and plastic that would have cost in the 80's about 50p to replace. That is just one example. My sister was the eldest and a bully and she treated me the same way mum did. I guess she learned by example.

When you are treated like dirt for something that wasnt your fault and you feel you have to make someone love you, even your own family, it does have profound repercussions on your adult life.

Oh, you poor thing I'm sorry your mother & sister bullied you.

I think you've found the answer to why you're susceptible to people offering & withdrawing affection, still trying to 'win them over' somehow. You ARE good enough, you know. You deserve consistent appreciation and love you can trust. At the very least!

It really is a great start to treat yourself as well as you deserve, with all the respect and affection you deserve. Counselling can certainly help with this. Short-term, there are zillions of good websites to support you (and this board's pretty good, too.)

Wishing you well :)

Thank you, Destiny.

That is a great post, Garlic

GarlicBake

Thanks for your posts. The first one about intermittent reinforcement makes so much sense to me. That is so right. When I see him it's always nearly perfect. I totally get that it is easy to play the part of perfection when you see someone on and off. But I don't get why it isn't a reciprocal thing for him - I was never always available for him. I would often be busy/not available if he was offering last minute dates. So how come the intermitttent reinforcement wasn't something that worked for him too? Or maybe it did which is why he keeps coming back? God I'm so confused.

still trying to 'win them over' somehow.

I know this post was to SoThat but this too is something I identify with. It's like I associate love with having to win approval. I feel most comfortable in a dynamic with someone who I think likes me (or has been acting hot and keen at first) and then goes cold. I think it's something to do with (a) feeling "safe" to try to win their approval because as a result of the "hot phase" I'm reasonably sure they are attracted to me - so it feels low risk for rejection or at least sexual rejection and (b) feeling "safe" with the cold phase because it means I can pine and feel all "in love" without having to face the reality of a real relationship. I also think that on some level I "enjoy" (that's the wrong word because I'm very depressed about this man and myself) maybe get stimulated would be better - by my internalised perceived "drama" of the situation. That the hot/cold gives a high/low drama which is more interesting than the calm constancy of a real loving relationship.

This man has maintained an on/off hot/cold cycle with me for a long time. So I also think that I've developed an even stronger "safe feeling" with him in relation to the (a) phase above. Because he has always come back or been receptive to any approaches of mine, I feel like this has a permanancy in my life. I honestly feel like I love him so deeply and have a connection with him like no one else. It is very dispiriting that in reality it is all in my head and no matter how real it feels to me, he feels nothing for me - except maybe a bit of lust occassionally - but really I'm sure any warm, wet hole would do for him. And that makes me really sad and tearful.

Counselling can certainly help with this.

What sort of counselling? What kind of counsellors would help do you think?

SoThat

Sorry you had such an awful experience. I was never bullied but I identify heaps with that "winning people round" type feeling.