"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[pocketsaviour]

It's February 2016, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Morning Chiggers and other lovely posters.

Glad you're finding comfort in your doggies. I'm the same with my cat, I think he thinks he's a dog, the way he fusses round me! They can sense when you're sad too and give you little chirrups and bunts

I've still heard nothing from my mum, nor have I sent any message to say going NC. Not sure how to initiate it, so am stagnating a bit and it's preying on my mind. Also starting to worry that she's ok, which makes no sense at all given how she treats me. It's just that she tells me regularly that I'm the only one that's good to her. And it's true. She's a compulsive spender (recovered alcoholic, but has replaced the compulsion) so cannot keep a pound in her pocket. Regularly runs out of food and has nothing to eat, or can't pay bills, but delights in telling people about the new kindle she bought with a discount code from X-magazine! Infuriating. I have tried to talk to her about it so many times but am met with comments like 'I'm a sanctimonious cow, she's an adult, can spend her money any way she wants' etc. She rang round family in fact to tell them how mean I had been - you know, trying to prevent her from being starving and cold, I'm SO mean !

In the end, over the years I've opted to order her a large online shop and have it delivered so I knew she could eat, or sent vouchers. Otherwise she spends cash (she traded in some train vouchers we sent her once) or gives things away (so she can be told how generous she is!). It's def a compulsion.

So, right now, I know that now there is nobody to do that for her, I guess I am worried as it's cold at the moment. Silly, I know, as she won't be worrying about me in the same way, nor will she be worried at all that she upset me so much in my pregnancy, telling me I deserved the abuse I received in my childhood. She knows nothing that it isn't going to plan and baby isn't doing so well, but it's better that way as she can't then feed on it. Right now, I know she will just be feeling really hard done by.

This is the part where I need to stay strong and remain NC. I I think right now I'm going through the guilt phase.....and worrying what people think of me if they knew....arghghghgh. f any of you can point me to anything I could read / advice on how to initiate it (and the sustain it), that would be amazing, thank you

Turquoise, you need to ask yourself if you would let a friend treat you this way, and if not, then there lies your answer. I find that doing stuff to distract you may help a bit. At least it takes your mind off worrying about a person who treated you so badly.

What your mum said and did while you were PG is absolutely disgusting, and for that, I would never speak to her again. How can anyone say that a child deserves the abuse you endured? If my mum said that to me, I'd tell her in no uncertain terms to FUCK OFF. Please stay strong and just remember, it'll be hard now, but it gets easier as time goes on

Hi all. I've not been on these threads for a long time as it's 5 years since I went NC with my dad and SM and I generally just try to get on with my life and not think about it. But I'm struggling with general low mood at the moment and am finding it hard to rationalise things and I need help!

I went NC because I finally realised how badly I'd been treated all of my life, and that it wasn't normal, and that it was still continuing into my adult life. I tried to fix things, I tried everything, but it was constantly thrown back in my face. My SM is an absolute bitch who lies to stir up trouble, and my whole life my dad just stood back and let her treat us like crap, and after having children things got worse and I finally had to say that we needed to sort the relationship out once and for all, or end it. Initially they ignored what I said, threw my suggestion of counselling back in my face, refused to acknowledge our many problems and continued to send breezy postcards telling us how much they were enjoying their lives, like nothing had ever been said. They dropped gifts for the children at my MILs, and continued to look like they were doing "the right thing" while never actually communicating with me or trying to make anything better. In the end we moved house and now they don't know our address so can't send any more unsolicited crap to ease their consciences.

Having said all this, I find myself missing my dad at the moment and I wish things were different. I genuinely couldn't give a shit about my SM or the rest of my previous so-called family, but I still have this idea of a father in my head that is so far from the reality of what he is today, but it makes me sad that I'll probably never see him again. It makes me sad that he clearly doesn't give a crap, and that he's never tried to sort things out, if not for me, but to a point where it's bearable so he could see his grandchildren. I feel, as you can probably tell, completely conflicted - I'm angry and sad, I accept that he hates me, but at the same time I don't. I sometimes wonder if it's because of the lies my SM tells - one time I was on the phone to her and my dad was in the background. Out of the blue she said to me "why do you hate your father so much?" I hadn't said anything of the sort, but he could only hear her end of the conversation; that's just one incident that I know of, and I genuinely believe that she has fed him a load of lies to engineer me out of his life. He has just sat back and let her do it, to be sure, but I think she's manipulated him and she's won. She's got what she wanted.

I keep thinking maybe I should just drop him a line but it's impossible for me to get in touch with him without having to get past her. She uses his email, she opens his post, he doesn't have his own mobile. And I don't want to put myself out to be rejected or misinterpreted again, but I find myself constantly wondering what I could write to him, and whether I should just do it anyway.

I'm sorry, I'm rambling a bit, I'm finding it really hard to get my head straight at the moment, I feel like am contradicting myself, they'll say I cut them out so what's my problem but it's not that straightforward.

I don't know if it ever gets easier. I don't know if I will ever not struggle with this and I hate that.

Hi Turquoise , I think you have to go NC in a way that works for you.
some people are comfortable softening the blow with "I need time to myself" sort of things
others are more direct and factual, writing is obviously less confrontational and lets you think about what you want to say and rewrite it.
the only thing not to do is write a list of their behaviours that have caused you to do this - that’s just handing them ammunition and you will hear straight back and with anger and a total character assassination if you do it.

Good evening ladies. Been a long day today. My friend's mum took me up to see dad today. She told me that dad was getting home today, but asked me not to mention anything to mum or the rest of the family as she knew how they would treat me. Well, she was right, as she asked me, when I was leaving, whether I'd been told by my family, to which I replied "They weren't going to mention anything until I said to dad that I was pleased he was coming home".

Mum's face looked like a well smacked arse (furious/put out etc, that I'd found out). It was incredibly clear that she didn't want me to know and was happy to have me coming up to the hospital, wasting bus fares to go and see dad when he was sitting at home. My friend's mum (also a good friend) was absolutely disgusted. I spoke to the Dr's as I was leaving and thanked them for letting me know about dad. I also let them know that mum and 'D'B's OH weren't going to mention anything to me about it, which would be par for the course with my family. The Dr's couldn't believe it and they said that had I decided to call to say I would come up this evening, instead of this afternoon, they would have told me over the phone to save me the journey. They were none too pleased with my family and realised that I was telling the truth about how they are toward me. I told them that I understand how they have to be wary about what people say, but when they realised what my family are like, they know better than to believe them about letting me know. The nurses did say that they would call me so that I know what's going on, if dad is re-admitted to the ward.

Anyway, my brother's OH offered a lift back home, but I refused and said I'd get the bus and make my own way home. I bet they'll be tittering and tee-heeing about how childish I was for refusing a lift home. Ah well, fuck'em. I CBA with twit like that. My main concern is helping dad to be as comfortable in his last weeks as possible.

Dog, welcome to the thread. I know how you feel about missing your dad, but you should be angry with him for enabling his wife's behaviour toward you. That showed where his priorities lay, and they weren't with you. It's a parent's duty to protect/stick up for their children. Your dad failed to protect you from his wife's hatred and vitriol. I would be going NC for good. It'll be hard to do, as you may be full of doubt about what you're doing, but as time passes, it may come to a point where you look back and realise that you should've done it earlier.

It's situations like yours, and similar, where toxic relatives should be shut out of our lives in order to protect our sanity, and the minds of our DC. No child should be exposed to the kind of behaviour your dad allowed you to experience as a child. For your own sake, please stay NC and move on with your life.

I just want to give to all those who have endured such shitty behaviour from parent/brothers/sisters/SIL's/MIL's etc. And do you know what, fuck it, I'm going to give lots of hugs to everyone for being so brave and coming on here to offload the crap you all went through

Just checking into this thread for the first time - not read the whole thread. Been aware of this thread for a while but not posted on it because I didn't think my problems were bad enough.

However something has happened today that's upset me and I want a place to talk about it and don't really feel comfortable talking to friends. Just found out that my rich uncle has given DB £150k for a house deposit. I know that makes me sound like a money grubbing bitch especially when I say I have my own house (not bought with any family help) but it's brought up some stuff for me. I have 2 full siblings. Every year rich uncle used to take DB and DSis on holiday as they were the same age as his kids. I would be left at home on my own as my parents couldn't afford holidays. They still get invited to family events organised by my uncle while I get excluded.

Tried to talk to my mum about it and say it was unfair and she said I was selfish and self-centred for not wanting my siblings to have a nice time. I can't really talk to my mum about stuff that she's done that upsets me as she starts crying and saying I'm picking on her. My dad is dead but I had an even more distant relationship with him. I do have a good relationship with my siblings as it's not their fault they're favouritised but I've just found this a bit upsetting. I also have a half brother too on my dads side who my dad kept secret from everyone until I invited him to my wedding. I was told about him when I was 6 but not allowed to discuss him with anyone as the rest of the family don't know.

I work with troubled adolescents and this stuff with my uncle is upsetting me and bringing up teenage feelings for me which is interfering with my ability to do my job today. I did mention it to a colleague and she said my uncle was a prick and that cheered me up.

Danger I feel for you so much. It's hard when you see siblings getting treated better than yourself and wonder what you've done to deserve being treated so appallingly. I understand that you want to shout, scream and give off that it's an absolute disgrace that your relative that allow this should be bloody-well ashamed of themselves. The thing is, you may not be able to choose who your blood family are, but you can choose whether to have anything to do with them.

I would be very dubious about a relationship with your siblings as although it's not their fault that they are being treated better than you are, they are partially at fault for accepting those gifts knowing you are being treated so appallingly. If your siblings haven't realised, talk to them about it and tell them to keep their eyes open for the difference in how they are treated compared to the way you are. Hopefully it will ensure that they see what's going on.

Miss Triggs

Please use this Stately Homes thread, the other one is now full and won't accept any more postings.

Do you really have to see these people at all; to see people out of a sense of duty is not a good reason to see them.

Don't most normal mothers want their adult children to leave the nest, move on, have a life? Why am I made to feel bad for wanting to move away from home? The purpose of my life is to serve her? How did this happen? Why are there no boundaries between us? Why are we not separate humans? She doesn't even like me!!!

Hello, I am a long-time Mumsnet lurker and very occasional poster and I have n/c after Jeffery. I have often wanted to post on this thread but have held back. However I now desperately need some advice.

My DM (?) looks after my 2 year old DD and DNephew for two afternoons a week while I and DSis are at work, picking DD up from mornings at Nursery. Nearly two weeks ago I went to pick up DD from Grandparent’s house when my Father and Brother (who still lives at home as an adult) began to have a loud argument with each other and neither would back despite been asked to both DM and me. The argument was over who had moved a pair of shoes. Both Brother and Father have a history of violence towards each other and other family members. My Brother pushed my Father during the argument though neither myself or DD witnessed this as I had removed my daughter from the house at this point . I then went back for my nephew and took him out too, with DM following. At the time DM and DSis both agreed that this was unacceptable behavior and that there should be consequences. All agreed that it would be better if DM looked after the children in a different house and Father and Brother had broken the trust that had been built up.

The day after my Dad texted me an apology but I have heard nothing from my Brother. Since then both DM and DSis have changed their minds and decided to forget the incident. I however cannot. It has unfortunately thrown up a lot of things from my childhood/teenage years. My Dad is no longer violent but to be perfectly honest is completely uninterested in me as a person. I could accept this, but I am not prepared to put my daughter through the same. Home life was ruled by my Dad's moods/sulks/temper (think ruining Christmas, days out, etc.). In recent years my Brother has basically turned into my Dad, (who has mellowed somewhat).

On top of all this DM has taken to emotionally blackmailing me, telling it is not fair, DD loves going to her house, making out that she won’t be able to see DD. I have said I will extend DD's days in Nursery from mornings to full days so there would be no need for her to go to Grandparent's house but that DM can see her whenever she wants. DM rang me up at 10pm in tears saying she can't sleep for thinking about "the kids". I feel that I have now been made into the villain of the piece, when I am trying to protect DD.

I genuinely don't know if I am allowing my own experiences to cloud my view of the situation. DD is very close to DM and has been asking to go to her house, be picked up from Nursery by her. But I feel there is never any consequences to the Dad and Brother's behavior and the family has been conditioned to put up with what is actually dysfunction.
I am so sorry it is so long, I feel I am going mad trying to unpick everything. Any comment or advice? Should I allow DD to go back DM's on Monday?

Redfoot i really feel for you , i had exactly the same when my dd was about 4 ,it was between my parents and their minimising the effect it would have on children told me what i needed to know , what your little girl experienced was domestic violence which if left unchallenged becomes a pattern of behaviour to be copied , as you see in your brother.
I told my parents this and limited contact , my mother and dad would still pick her up but come to our house instead which diluted things. my sis also was concerned about an incident at home with her dc but after telling me she chose to ignore.
i always think go with your gut , if it doesnt feel right it isnt, your own experience is very valuble and children will love their grandparents without knowing what they are doing is not ok. it gets easier as they get older , my dd doesnt hardly see her grandparents because she has other things she wants to do, my 2 year old hardly knows them.

Hi bubblingup,

re your comment:-

"Don't most normal mothers want their adult children to leave the nest, move on, have a life? Why am I made to feel bad for wanting to move away from home? The purpose of my life is to serve her? How did this happen? Why are there no boundaries between us? Why are we not separate humans? She doesn't even like me!!!"

This can happen when the mother is a narcissist; these disordered of thinking people often see their daughter purely as an extension of their own selves. I would read up on narcissistic personality disorder and read
the website entitled Daughters of narcissistic mothers.

It is also not possible to have any sort of a relationship with a narcissist. I would move away (and not leave her any forwarding address).

Hi bubblingup are you living near her or in the same house? I had very similar, my mother followed my across Europe and engineered health problems to get us to live together (and then treated me like shit) I think she relly sees no boundaries between us, I am an extension of her. My psychotherapist said he felt she was probably a narcissist (without committing to a diagnosis, obviously). The website Atila mentions is very good.
www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/mothers-with-narcissistic-personality-disorder/

RedFoot

I would find alternative childcare now as a matter of course; I would not leave a goldfish with your mother!.

It is NOT your fault your family of origin are like this; you did not make them this way. Stuff like this often goes down the generations and their own childhoods were likely to have been abusive as well. Its a reason, not an excuse for their actions now. Neither of them sought or even perhaps wanted to seek the necessary help.

From what you write, your family of origin are still very much dysfunctional and nothing much has changed since your own childhood years. The inherent dynamics here have not altered. Your mother still enables your dad and your dad is still inherently violent. All of you as siblings have become profoundly affected by what you saw as children; your sister and brother have simply chosen to continue the family dynamic of enabling and violence respectively. This is all learnt behaviour from your parents.

You can see this is all wrong and your family of origin do not like the fact that they are being so challenged; they think everyone should play out their assigned roles properly!. Your father's texted apology (a bloody text as well) is an irrelevance; he is not really sorry at all.

I would also ignore your mother's emotional blackmail and not give into it.

Your job amongst many here is to protect your child from such malign influences. Your DD may love her grandparents but she is only 2 so really does not understand any of the dysfunctional crap that is going on here. Children love grandparents anyway no matter how dysfunctional they
actually are.

This excerpt may also help you:-

"You are the parent. You're older and therefore more experienced which is the point of being the parent. The child is dependent on your good sense and protective wisdom. You're smarter than your child; use that to your advantage (such as using the distraction method). You are the final authority. This is not a negotiable issue. Kidlet doesn't get to decide on this one because they lack the understanding, wisdom, experience and good sense that, hopefully, you have. So don't look like you're unsure or open to quibble. You'll undermine yourself if you look anything but firm and resolved on it. Use your advantages as parent to smooth the effects of the cut-off. Over time this will all quiet down. Kids tend to accept what is. It will happen more quickly if you follow the above advice.

Most of all, do not operate from a fearful mindset. Don't be afraid of your children's possible, or actual, reactions. Don't be afraid that you are depriving them of something important by cutting off a set of grandparents. You are only "depriving" them of bad things. Reassure yourself with that truth. Family is not everything. Blood is not binding. You are escaping the Mob Family. What should connect us is how we treat each other with love and respect. This is always a good lesson to teach our little ones. If any part of you is unsure of your decision then, for Pete's sake, don't show it. Your resoluteness will go a long way toward reassuring your children that you are acting in everyone's best interest. If your children know that you love them, they are going to feel reassured that this decision is also based in your love for them. They will find an added sense of security to know that you, as their parent, are willing to protect them even at the cost of your relationship with your own parent(s). Rather than being fearful, see the plentiful opportunities in this. You are protecting your children from someone whom you've experienced as being abusive; you are reassuring your children that you are in charge and are watchful for their best interests (creates deep sense of security); you can teach healthy family values which include that family doesn't get a pass for abusive behaviour; you can strengthen and reinforce the healthy relationships in your extended family. Kids are less likely to feel like there is a void in their life if you fill it with good things".

Good morning, Port, RedFoot and all the other ladies. Made some and and . I know it's early, but never too early for cake , so get tucked in. It's there to be eaten and drank, not looked at.

Anyway, Red, I really feel for you being in this situation. It probably seems that you can't do right for doing wrong. If you allow things to keep on the way they were, you're not making it clear that your dad and brother's behaviour is unacceptable, as well as your mum's emotional blackmail, but if you go with what you prefer to do in order to tell them this, then it may open up a whole shitstorm with your mum/dad/brother using emotive language to make out your the bad guy.

Only you know what happened, but by the sounds of things, your dad did less than your brother. It's possible your brother knows he was in the wrong to push your dad over something so petty, but he may be having a hard time trying to apologise for it, and so, the lack of contact may be an indication of that. Then again, your brother may think he hasn't done anything wrong and is simply refusing to apologise for something he feels he was within his right to do. Both your dad and brother were wrong to allow the DC to witness their violence. They should have taken their dispute to another room and out of the way of the children, or sorted it out after the DC had been collected.

As for your mum, take no notice of her emotional blackmail. It's really is just emotive language to get you to do what she wants. She also sounds overdramatic and TBH, you would be better off ignoring that kind of behaviour. She may step the emotive language and drama up a bit, to try and make you feel guilty, but the more you ignore, the sooner she'll realise that certain behaviours won't work on you. If you know you did what was best for your DD, then you have no reason to feel guilty.

As a parent myself, my duty is to my DC, not my parents/siblings/other relatives. The health and welfare of my parents/siblings/other relatives come second to that of my DC IYSWIM.

Anyway, I hope you get your situation sorted

Good morning all xx

It's been over a week since going NC with my parents. Not heard a thing. Not that they are bothered anyway.

Inside the house, they'll be going about their daily life as usual, but I know they will be putting the aggrieved faces on when out and.about, telling everybody they know , including the neighbourhood cat, about how bad a daughter I am for "abandoning" them. She/they abandoned me emotionally years ago, but I'm sure this wouldn't have been mentioned.

I bit the bullet and sent a text to my younger niece who initially said she'd stay in touch with me at the time of NC, and luckily she still feels the same. Thought they might have tried to turn her against me by now. Phew.

Not sure my eldest niece will feel the same. She hates what I've done. She is the golden niece/child, her nana does everything for her. Painful to see :(
So you can we had different relationships with Mum....:

I feel sad. Will this get better? :(

Sorry if this sounds like I'm just thinking about myself on the thread, I'm not. I seriously need to vent. It's just a bundle of conflicting emotions going on. Truly horrified at what other posters have been through, or going through.xx

Soon, I'll give examples of what they've done, thinking of them at the moment gives me headache. Bear with me.

Take your time, Thurs and don't worry about bothering anyone, this thread is here to talk about whatever you need to.

xx

Thanks GoodtoBetter xx

Thanks so much for the link about "The Daughters..." I will check it out. I apologize for my above random post. It's helpful to see other women who are appendages of their mothers. It makes no sense though. The woman doesn't even like me. If you were going to add an extension to yourself wouldn't you find someone you actually liked and glue that person to you instead of someone you hate and hates you back? She likes my brother more, but he is useless in a practical sense. It does seem to be a generational mother-daughter thing in my family though. The sons get a pass.

My story is so utterly bizarre. Both my parents are narcs. They divorced when I was 20 years old and at uni. Been NC with my Dad for 17 years (it took him 2 years to notice) and I live in the same house as Mother. I'm in my early 50s and Mother is mid-70s. I am plotting my escape from this prison. It will be ugly and I will be called selfish among other things. How dare I have my own life!

Anyone see the movie Grey Gardens with Drew Barrymore about an old mother and a middle aged daughter? It haunts me although the daughter in that situation seems to have been a willing participant. Others my think I am willing as well. It's really a complicated situation and no matter what, I will look like the Bad Guy.

Port, Attila, Chiggers , Thank you so much for your replies. I actually cried when I read them, I think it was a mixture of relief and of feeling validated. I have hardened my resolve and will put DD in two full days nursery.

In some ways it will be a relief! I know it is hard work for my Mum to look after two toddlers, but unfortunately she seems to think that Nursery is akin to child abuse. I am more than willing to facilitate a relationship between my Mum and DD just not in her house. I think that my Dad's text maybe the first time he has ever apologised to me, so in a way it was massive, thankfully I realise this is a completely skewed view and it in no way compensates for his behavior. I believe without any effort being made on my part both relationships with my Dad and Brother will slide into no-contact and this doesn't really bother me as both are very negative about me in general.

Attila The bit from the excerpt about living in fear really resonated with me. When I clicked post last night, i was genuinely terrified that my family may see my post and call me out on it. I have become so accustomed in trying to appease them that I am scared of stepping out line!

And yes both parents had terrible upbringings BUT that only goes so far. I guess i thought that I was close to them as a family then it would mean the pattern was broken but it is beginning to look like the opposite.

BubblingUp I know how you feel with regards to your Mother! My own Mum once watched Grey Gardens and commented on it as though it was the ideal situation for me and her (disregarding the rest of the family)! To me it is terrifying, but for a long time I was stuck in a codependent relationship with her and would promise to "save" her without realising the full implications. Not sure if it helps, but just wanted you to know that you are not alone in trying to figure this stuff out.

Bubbling

If you were going to add an extension to yourself wouldn't you find someone you actually liked and glue that person to you instead of someone you hate and hates you back?

You would think so, wouldn't you? That's not how it works though. By making you the hate container, your mother can project all of the qualities which she hates in herself onto you, and justify her appalling treatment of you by telling herself you deserve it. Then she can feel like "the good one". However, if she were to let you go, then she would lose her poison container and have to confront the reality of her own self-hate. That can never happen! So she clings onto you relentlessly.

You can often spot this in action when you hear her say to you, or about you, "Oh Bubbling, you're so X" or "Bubbling you're always doing Y". In fact you've never done/been those things, but she is/has.

Evening all. I am really not sure that I belong here in all honesty but things are becoming problematic again. Throughout my childhood but Mum has been difficult in terms of behaviour (shouty, never apologising, have mega tantrums, often in the middle of the night, revealed stuff that I should not know about her relationship with my DF). I have ended up asking the GP at one point to advise as she was threatening to take her own life. She threatened my DF once with a knife and I will never forget that. As an adult I truly don't think she meant anything but the child me believed that she did and was terrified. Equally when she talked about killing herself and taking us with her.

Nothing we ever did was good enough and my Dad minimised her behaviour hugely. Would never be honest about what she was really like Lots of the times it was great. When it wasn't, it was terrible though. Things were exceptionally awful when my sis and I left home. It seemed that my Mum needed to be needed. Without this, she threw everything back in our faces and we went NC for a bit.

Things were much better when I and my sis had DC as she had a role again. Tons better and things are nowhere as bad as they were. I think I have been lulled into a sense of security and let my guard down too much. She can be fab mostly now. She's great with the DC. and does childcare etc (We are lucky in that respect). But yesterday we had a bit of a dispute. No need for her to flounce out of our house and slam the door which she did of course. I am livid. I am not prepared to tolerate that behaviour for me but certainly not my DC. I cannot let them see what I did as it had a huge impact (not that she would ever see that). I should have not responded to her (am cross with myself about that) but I did not shout/slam etc or anything. In fact, I said calmly that I did not want an argument and that was the inflammatory statement. DF minimised as usual.

We have tickets today for something and had theirs so could not avoid them. I left theirs on the door as I figured that I was not the one to flounce so was not going to make contact. Cold shouldered when they did turn up by DM. FFS, it is such juvenile behaviour. Why is she unable to apologise and at least acknowledge that she cannot behave like that. Is it that fucking hard? I am not prepared to go back down the slippery slide of terrible behaviour that she have seen before.

Reading the above sounds like I am being silly. Apologies as I am really not sure that I do belong here. I don't have any good friends to discuss this with and outwardly all looks great of course.

Purple, you're not being silly. Your mother was emotionally abusive and on more than one occasion threatened to kill you. You have a hard time seeing how wrong all this is because you were emotionally abused from an early age. She managed (like so many abusive parents) to put on a veneer of niceness with the grandchildren but perhaps now the veneer is wearing thin. I doubt she will apologise, ever - these people live to support their bast but fragile egos, and the step of feeling remorse, admitting they're wrong and apologising (something our children learn about 3.5-4 years old) is beyond them.

I know exactly what you mean re a calm statement being inflammatory. These people expect you to dance to their tune 24/7 while making it look like that's what you wanted to do anyway. You don't need to keep doing this, you can tell her to bugger off.