"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[pocketsaviour]

It's February 2016, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

[lasttimeround]

Visit over - thank god. Not doing that again in a very long while. I'm impressed with how far I've come though. F no longer holds power over me. I don't jump to his cues. I'm stable in myself and my boundaries. Huge. To some degree I pity him now. I just see how dysfunctional he is and feel sorry for him that he is that way. But I don't respond to victim playing either and don't have guilt or feeĺ responsible to make it better.
This thread for me is the best of mumsnet. To a huge extent it saved me. I'd never heard of npd or fog before this despite several rounds of counselling for anxiety and the odd sense that I wasn't real. I often only use this thread to vent but I've learned so much here. I hope I'll be able to pay it back in future.
Anyone struggling with family issues. You arent alone and you can recover and it's so worth it because you get to be you

[LuciaInFurs]

Thank you lasttimeround, to hear for once that it's not me and there is a problem has really opened my eyes. I've spent so long trying to convince myself that I am just overly sensitive or that this is the way families are.

I am grieving for the mother I will never have but I'm not sure how to move on from that. I feel really shortchanged and like I'm at a massive disadvantage. DH had an idyllic childhood and I can't help but compare. I am very, very quick to anger and physically resemble my mother. I am scared that I will turn into her. I don't want to be angry anymore. DH jokes that i'm always in a bad mood, he's not wrong.

I think about the things my mother did all day every day, I think about how I could have been more successful if she'd bothered to parent me, thinner if she'd bothered to feed me instead of ordering fast food every night. I think about how I could have been outgoing and sociable if she hadn't verbally humiliated me and attacked me. I can't even stand the sound of my own voice.

Sometimes I think I'm going mad.

[seoulsurvivor]

I just need to get something off my chest that feels and seems minor, but I just need to say it somewhere.

On my wedding day, the photographer asked each person who had a photo with me to say something nice while he took a photo.

My dad said 'well I never thought I'd see the day you got married.'

My mum said 'well I think you got lucky. Not sure about him.'

I sat there in my beautiful dress feeling like the biggest loser in the world that my parents can't even say one nice thing on my wedding day.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

seoul

That is not minor at all; your parents were both unkind and heartless here and on your wedding day as well. Am certain you looked lovely.

[RubbishMantra]

Today, my father told me I should have shown 'more compassion' towards him when my beautiful DH committed suicide. Not towards ddDH, but to my father, because "he liked the chap". He'd only met him once. I'd spent many years loving my lovely DH.

Neither parents could be arsed to attend my DH's funeral.

I wish it was them instead.

[greenleaf1]

I'm so sorry about your DH RubbishMantra

Your parents are just vile - words fail me. Can you phase them out of your life, even gradually? You deserve so much more.

I bet your DH was a star

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

RubbishMantra



Your dad is truly a heartless individual and that does not even begin to cover it, what on earth possessed him to say such hurtful things?.

I hope you can find true peace one day.

[RubbishMantra]

Because like Greenleaf says, they are utterly vile. And I am phasing them out of my life. They're nearly 80, and behave like spoilt children.

I rang him up in tears, in absolute bits the day I found out DH had killed himself, and swore, not at my father, just in context, as in "Why did he fucking do it?!" He told me off for swearing, and said not to ring again if I were to use language like that. In spite of the fact we would use swear words in general conversation. Just not in front of mother of course.

I have practically phased them out of my life, and don't answer their phone calls, then get a whingey email saying 'We're worried about you, why aren't you picking up the phone?' Hmm, let me see, because every time you speak to me you make me feel like crap.

I made one last phone call to my father (can't refer to him as DF) and told him he was bang out of order, and where was his compassion. He said he couldn't remember saying what he'd said - a script that's gone on all my life. They can list my misdemeanors chronologically though.

Thank you both for your kind words, and yes, DH was a very special, gifted and amazing person, who battled schizophrenia since his teens. Also treated like crap by his parents.

We loved each other very deeply, whereas my parent can't stand each other, and have had 60 years of misery together, so maybe they don't understand why I was so sad after DH's death, just over a year ago.

[PhoenixRisingSlowly]

Hello. Can I join you all please? I used to lurk a bit on these threads many years ago but I am stepping things up in terms of dealing with my nightmare of a mother and maybe even going NC at some point, and need some support at the moment. I'm going to post and run right now but will come back tonight with a cuppa and read through the thread, looks like you are almost due a new one too so if need be I'll meet you there.

[greenleaf1]

Hello Phoenix

I lurked here for a long while too before I posted. This thread seems to have been very quiet recently, but I've found it so helpful in the past.

There was no one I knew in real life who understood the world of shit I've carried around in my head for decades because of my horrendous parents. I hate to think other people have put up with the same crap, but it's still comforting to know there are so many of us out there.

Know you're not alone

[greenleaf1]

RubbishMantra I can't imagine what you've been through. I'm so sorry.

I'm grimly fascinated by people like our parents. What is it with a life changing crisis that makes them break cover? They can't contain their excitement, and revel in a chance to stick the knife in when it's guaranteed to hurt the most. I've heard examples of this from many people with parents like ours.

Mine did it to me when I was diagnosed with cancer, and actually, weirdly, I'm so glad they did. I'm fine now health wise, and as a bonus, I have a crystal clear idea now of just how awful they are, and always were. As the saying goes, when someone shows you who they are, believe them.

All the best to you

[seoulsurvivor]

Atilla thanks. My husband is basically a total angel, completely selfless and kind to everyone. So I already feel like I'm not good enough for him, and them saying that just made me feel even more like that's the case. Even my brother, who I barely speak to, said I looked great and that he wished us all the best. Why couldn't they just have said something like that?

[FluffyPersian]

I don't know whether this is the right thread for me as some of the posts are so very sad - I was 'lucky' that I was never really beaten (smacked within the realms of 'normal' I guess... no bruises, no other physical punishment), never really yelled at that I can remember - It was more that my parents literally didn't seem to care and my Dad called me names.

I'm the eldest of 4 girls and my parents still live together. It's a horrible co-dependent relationship where my Dad is rude about my Mother, calling her 'stupid' 'When we got together she was so pretty, now look at her' and my Mother is rude about my Father - yet they'd never separate as my Mother has a very low paying job and my Father doesn't know how to cook / clean or operate the dishwasher.

Growing up, I can't recall a single time my Mother or Father told me they loved me - I certainly can't remember a single instance that my Father hugged me, asked me what I was doing at school - he never showed up to a single play, music recital and never told me he was proud of me. He never knew what GCSE's or A levels I was doing....

When I was 10 or 11 (having gone through puberty at 9 and had a bigger chest than my Mother), he started calling me fat and that continued until I was about 27 - at which point I ignored him for 6 months for the comment - He's been a bit more cautious since then.

He used to pick on each of my sisters for their 'Achilles heel' - e.g. the thing you were most sensitive about, that's what he used to pick on. For me, it was my weight, for my next sister, it was also her weight (she went anorexic and started self harming) so he changed it to how 'stupid' she was, for my next sister it was the fact she allegedly had no ambition and he used to call her lazy (she does volunteer work and has a very successful career) and my last sister he used to call 'dumb', 'stupid' etc...

He knew I had a phobia of needles as I had a very bad experience in hospital when I was 4 years old. He is a type 1 diabetic and seemed to take pleasure in injecting himself in front of me for years - it used to terrify me every single day.

My Mother was more supportive in some ways, she did come to plays, music recitals etc, I don't recall her calling me any names and she did pay my assisted place school fees from 11-18 as my Father wanted me to go to the local comprehensive, where the primary school bullies went as 'If it was good enough for him, it was good enough for me'. However she never really told me the facts of life, never hugged or cuddled me, has never told me she's proud of me and when I got engaged, neither parent said 'Congratulations' or made any comment to it whatsoever.

When I was pregnant last year and had horrific antenatal depression which ended in a termination as I was suicidal, her response was 'I don't see why you're feeling down - maybe you're just a bit worried? I wasn't like that when I was pregnant' and when I told her I miscarried (as I didn't want her knowing the truth) she said 'Oh dear just treat it logically and don't put any feelings into it' - and that was that.

When I was 14 - My parents decided they couldn't be bothered decorating the house for Christmas as it was 'too much effort', so from the age of 14 onwards, it was never really a big 'thing' in our house and the 'Christmas meal' was dolloped out onto a plate which we then went to eat in our respective bedrooms (I had my own, my 3 sisters shared) and that was that - no games, no togetherness, no fun, really....

Now we're all in our late 20's and 30's and never go home - my Mother is a hoarder and the house is very cluttered, full of fleas and bedbugs (my sister got bitten all over the last time she stayed there).

I started counselling 18 months ago as I had to have a wisdom tooth removal under general anesthetic and wanted to try and combat my fear of needles - however whilst talking about that, all this stuff with my parents came out.

In the last 18 months I've started making peace with what my childhood was like and backing off from my parents - I don't tell them anything, nor do I look for any kind of support. I don't want my Father walking me down the isle at my wedding and have been vocal in saying that he's lucky he's been invited. I've been really open with my friends about certain instances of what happened when I was young and my sisters and I have made a lot of 'Christmas Traditions' which include 'Cheese and wine' on Christmas Eve - Watching 'Elf' and 'Muppets Christmas carol'.. and we have Christmas dinner around a proper table in one of our houses - very small stuff, but it feels so much nicer than when we were young.

I've not spoken to my Father in 4 months - I know he had an operation last week (only because I was told by another sister), but haven't contacted him - they don't know I had a caudal epidural in hospital on my back 2 weeks ago as we just don't share information. My Mother seems t be sensing I've pulled back and is randomly messaging me on Facebook about auctions and gardening, which I've politely responded to, but haven't asked any questions.

I feel so less guilty now than I ever have before - Why? As my parents were parents - they were the adults, yet my Father thought it was OK to call me names and show absolutely no interest in me growing up. Therefore I don't see what I owe him as he could basically be a sperm donor. I can tolerate my Mother, but I find her weak that she never stands up to my Father and as she showed very basic feelings to me, I struggle to open up to her as if I do, I'm shot down in flames with her emotionally stunted responses.

Thankfully I have an amazing fiance and I'm incredibly close to my 3 sisters - we all agree on my parents behaviour and when we're together, it's like a therapy session... we all talk about what happened whilst our respective partners just stay quiet. We don't plan it, it happens naturally - but it helps to know you aren't alone in all of it.

Currently I'm wondering whether I'd make a good parent - I'm 34 and desperate to potentially try again, however there's such a massive part of me that is terrified I'll turn into my Mother and show my child no love / hugs / fun and just do the basic physical 'taking care of' instead.

Do you think it's easy / possible to be the complete opposite of your parents when you, yourself are a parent?

[Noodoodle]

Hi lovely people (nc'd for this) I was just wondering if this was an ok place to ask if anyone could give advice on how to be a partner to someone with these kind of parents? I don't want to bother you with the details if not but my dh has understanably long standing emotional issues with his parents/subsequent adoptive parents that rear their heads from time to time and at times I'm just not sure how best to be supportive as my own parents are lovely and have done their best to practically treat him as their own.

[angelwings3]

Hi there, have moved away but I don't want my family to find out where I am. How can I get around filling in that blasted electrol role, I haven't got any injunctions in place so I don't think I can get around it. Anyone with any advice please pm me.

[RaspberryOverloadTheFirst]

I second Cleo's link. We've opted out of the open register for many years and I swear the amount of junk mail has massively decreased. I know that your details don't get released, so would be something to consider if people don't want to be found.

[angelwings3]

Hi raspberry , how do you opt out from the opne register and cleo withdraw their link

[RaspberryOverloadTheFirst]

angel

Here is the official UK Government information on opting out.

Having taken a look, just follow the links through to find out your local office to notify.

When we did it, we simply ticked a box on the forms our local council sends out around this time of year. If you haven't yet completed the form to ensure your right to vote, you may find something similar on there.

[BuffySENsational]

Hi I've just found this thread and think it might be a place of sanctuary for me

I spent most of my childhood in care. My real family were totally dis functional by the time I was made a ward of court my mum had married and had two boys, divorced married and had me, then divorced, remarried and had two more girls. My brothers were in and out of care, my mum and stepfather were well known to the authorities. My brothers and I were abused and beaten daily whilst my sisters were adored. I didn't miss any of them.

My mother made contact in my 20's along with my brothers but after a while it became apparent they had serious issues (drugs, alcohol and MH) we drifted apart and all was well.

My mother contacted me again in my late 30's. She tracked my mobile number and rang me out of the blue and we spoke for about an hour. Two hours later she rang and told me she and her new husband had booked a holiday for me, my ds1, themselves and my sisters. I really, really didn't want to go. I couldn't afford the spending money I would need and felt emotionally blackmailed into it. I went it was a disaster my sisters got shitfaced and into a fight. A proper fist fight and hurling furniture the police were called and we were in Turkey. The guns terrified my son who was 3 at the time. I carried on with contact and tried my hardest to not judge these people as after all they are my family. But after about a year and a half I cut all contact and moved away again.

Three years ago I got an email through Facebook from one of my sisters literally just saying 'I thought you should know we buried mum today she died two weeks ago, tried to get hold of you but couldn't so letting you know now. And other sister says if you want to talk you can ring her'.

I was devastated still am but also so fucking angry at my so called family. My sisters went to live with their dad when I was taken into care and only met up with her five years prior to me. I'd like to say I'm over it now but I'm not. I feel a bit better for telling you as it isn't something I mention in RL ever. They are worse than the families on Jeremy Kyle and that takes some beating.

[alphaecho]

Hey everyone! I've been signposted to here :)

Okay. So I'm 24. I have a good job. And I'm 13 weeks pregnant. Been in a relationship for 4 years. All is fine. Sturdy. And happy. Infact I'm so bloody excited I may burst with happiness any minute.

My mum and dad broke up about 2 months ago. They had been together for 30 years, but they grew apart and have been since I can even remember (I was at least 12).

I said to my mum that I didn't want to take sides, and that I would talk to her about it as long as it wasn't bitching about my dad. She lost it, said that I'd fucked up my career for being pregnant, id end up with 3 different children with 3 different dads and she will never had anything positive to say about it. She also wants nothing to do with us.

Anyway to cut a long story short.. dad has now decided to go back to my mum (I don't live with them thank god!). I've tried a couple of times to keep her updated and sent her scan pictures.. but should I keep trying? She's been so horrible I don't want to just go back to pretending to be happy families...