"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[pocketsaviour]

It's February 2016, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Re my DP, although he agrees with my views of my mother, he doesn't like people falling out and has his own issues with trying to hold onto a relationship with his own parents (we've had arguments about this also but that's a whole other thread). He's of the school of thought that regardless of what your parents do, you don't fall out with them. I'm not, so this causes us to clash on some things. When I told him that I'm not pandering to her, he acknowledged it and said he wouldn't bring it up again. He really does have the best intentions at heart, he doesn't particularly like my mother, so it's not for him that I have a good relationship with her.

You're absolutely right that that was my fault. And I'm kicking myself in accepting the offer. I knew she would find something to metaphorically beat me with.

Believe me, I am really struggling with having her as childcare. My DD absolutely adores my DF, wholly and completely, and I can't take that enjoyment away from her. She will be starting nursery at the beginning of September so contact will be minimal, if at all, at that point. And, as I pointed out, my mother doesn't visit us so she won't see my DD. This of course will be my fault.

I do need to raise my boundaries. And they were, or at least I thought they were, but I've obviously let my guard down due to her 'better' behaviour this year.

Since lurking on here I've come across the term Narcissist and have just looked it up. From what I read I think my mother shows a lot of these characteristics. She has no empathy for anyone and never ever apologises. She has "moods" by which I mean she will ignore you, don a face to kill and answer in monosyllables. I can remember her telling me off as a child, very occasionally smacking and leaving me to cry for hours till I would creep up and say sorry. (I have never done this to our kids.) She's mad on babies, toddlers and small kids not connected to her but once they get to a certain age turns off affection. I am lucky to get an air peck on the cheek even after months away and she has often shut the door before I've left without a goodbye if in a "mood". Sometimes she'll keep this up for weeks and then act as if nothing's happened. Is this narcissism? Perhaps having a name for it might help me deal with my Mother better, not sure but I do know that thanks to DH and my wonderful, much missed PIL I don't follow her pattern.

Offside I know what you mean wanting children to have relationship with GP I had super relationships with all the GPs that I knew and was also lucky to have GGM till I was 16. My husband barely knew his GPs and feels as though he missed out but since talking with them I have found out that my kids adored my Father but do not like my Mother and according to them neither do my neice and nephew (this would really shock my Mother who thinks sis kids are perfect). Now my kids are old enough for me to be honest with them about my Mum it's making it a little easier to deal with her inasmuch as it is one thing less to feel guilty about.

Frami that pretty much sums up my mother. She will never, and has never, apologised, but she expects everyone else to. It's is easier to digest when there is a label for it.

I've just unreasonable snapped at my DF when he dropped off my DD. My DD was throwing a tantrum and in my stress I told him to tell my mother to stop using my DD in her stupid games and from now on I will be picking her up as I'm not waiting until gone 17:00 for her to be dropped when I finish work at 16:00 for a reason! He left without a goodbye, not even to my DD. Think he was shocked at my reaction.

Frami I think my DD already has the measure of my mother, even though she's not even 2! She is defo the least favourite of the GPs in the eyes of my DD.

That's really interesting. Have they said why they don't like her? Do their reasons resonate with you?

Offside I think a lot of it stems from discussion with my sister's 2 who are the same ages as my younger 2. My sister's kids were minded by my mother 1 or 2 days a week (she was paid for it) and as they got older started to experience the cold shoulder treatment. I learnt of this at Christmas (please click on the link on my earlier posting to give you the whole picture) when I finally came clean to my girls. Apparently she wouldn't speak to my Nephew for over 6 weeks after overhearing a conversation. My mother is an awful eavesdropper and will not hesitate to read any correspondence or documents left lying around. I have caught her red-handed in the past. My sons do not care for her either but their relationship is different inasmuch as they were in their mid teens when my father was diagnosed whereas their sisters were both under 10. They are now in their 20s and can find excuses to stay away and do.

offside,

Yes you do need to raise your boundaries further and with some urgency as well.

Re your comment:-
"I am really struggling with having her as childcare. My DD absolutely adores my DF, wholly and completely, and I can't take that enjoyment away from her".

Children love grandparents anyway no matter how rubbish they actually are. She does not know that her nan disrespects you totally as her mother. Your child needs decent, emotionally healthy and caring role models; not your mum and dad in her life. You will not be depriving your child of anything good if you prevent your parents from doing childcare duties. Besides which do you at all trust them to emotionally care for her properly, rather than simply dripping poison about you, her mother, into her ears?.

You are protecting your child from bad things by keeping her away from your parents. Your mother is a narcissist and your dad is her willing enabler and hatchet man.

re your comment:-
"I've just unreasonable snapped at my DF when he dropped off my DD. My DD was throwing a tantrum and in my stress I told hi"m to tell my mother to stop using my DD in her stupid games and from now on I will be picking her up as I'm not waiting until gone 17:00 for her to be dropped when I finish work at 16:00 for a reason! He left without a goodbye, not even to my DD. Think he was shocked at my reaction".

You were not unreasonable at snapping to him. He is simply going along with what his wife tells him to do. Look at how he crumbed today though without his wife present, he likely expected you to fall in line yet again and was stunned when you did not. I would have told him before he left as well that they are not looking after your child ever again.

Your father cannot adore her that much particularly if he managed to walk away today without saying goodbye to your child as well as you. What does that say about him?.

Re my DP, although he agrees with my views of my mother, he doesn't like people falling out and has his own issues with trying to hold onto a relationship with his own parents (we've had arguments about this also but that's a whole other thread). He's of the school of thought that regardless of what your parents do, you don't fall out with them

What your DP completely fails to realise here due to his own issues re his parents is that your relationship with your dysfunctional mother is absolutely not due to the two of you having some falling out. Falling outs imply that its an argument and these can be resolved. Its never been a falling out and your relationship with your mother will never be good or healthy; what your mother has done and wanted to do her whole life is to train you to serve her needs.

I would suggest you also read the website entitled Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers.

That's awful to think that she could treat her GC the same way, but unfortunately not a surprise.

Attilla, thank you for your post, I'm going to keep re reading it. I had a light bulb moment when you said about it not being a falling out but the dynamics of our relationship, I'm going to remember that.

You are right about the childcare too, I am completely racked with guilt that I put my innocent DD in her care. I have heard how she speaks about my DB in front of my nieces and know she won't hesitate to bad mouth me in front of and to my DD. I even picture her saying things like "oh you're just like your mother you" and similar with negative connotations. It breaks my heart. But I'm somewhat calmed at the thought of how much my DD loves my DF.

I also see and accept your point about my DF leaving without saying bye to my DD, I don't know if that was anything to do with her having a meltdown at the time also. I'm willing, at this point, to give him the benefit of the doubt as he is brilliant with her. He gives her every ounce of his attention, which, ironically, is another reason I worry about my DD with my mother as she tends to get very jealous. I remember one outburst on the phone to my aunty where my mum accused me of causing her to have a stroke (she never did by the way) and then said "those two might as well be in a relationship" about my DF and I as we did have a very good relationship. I will hold my hands up if I'm wrong about my DF. I feel for him as he has had it, and continues to have it, hard with my mother. There was a time he would stand up to her but would then suffer the silent treatment for weeks, sometimes months, on end, and as his health deteriorated he accepted her the way she is for want of an easy life.

I will also have a look at that website. Thanks you.

Thank you erinaceus. Sorry for the delay in replying, I'm struggling a bit at the moment. I'll have a look at your thread.

One thing such has come out of therapy is suppressed feelings of anger I feel towards my family. I feel that I'm only approved of if I behave in a certain way. I'm beginning to see that I'm something of a scapegoat - that is very painful. I don't feel that I've ever been allowed to just be myself. I'm currently in the process of being diagnosed with C-PTSD as a consequence of trauma and abuse in my past that hasn't been properly dealt with.

The big positive in my life is that I have a wonderful DS who is a happy, bright, confident boy - all things I never was.

Hi everyone.
Just after a bit of help. Some of you may know my issues with in laws as have posted previously regarding them.
I was hoping someone would help me understand why someone would do what my in laws have done and what their motives are on this occasion.
Mil and fil asked us to go to theirs for a bbq they are hosting, with their friends and neighbours in two weeks, we told them about a week ago (when they asked) that we had in fact invited people over for a bbq at ours that day and couldn't cancel as we haven't caught up with said people in a long while. Mil did her usual lemon sucking face and ignored us for the afternoon.
This week, they have messaged my own mother asking for my Aunty and uncles number (me and DH are very close to said Aunty and uncle, pil have met a handful of times but have some weird obsession with them) pil have invited my Aunty and uncle and my mother to their bbq. They hadn't mentioned this to us at all, neither are they close to my mother (don't know why they didn't ask us for these numbers)
I feel they've done this, as they don't like not being involved in every aspect of our lives, they have had an obsession over these relatives since the word go and my Aunty feels uncomfortable saying no.
I just can't believe how petty this all sounds but it feels a very backhanded thing to do knowing we've got plans so won't be there.
I feel it's a way to have a part of our lives and they are pushing themselves in trough people we are close to. It's suffocating.
Considering the unstable relationship they have with their son you'd think they'd keep a low profile and try to fix it, but no they continue to cross boundaries.
How should I deal with this? Ignore ignore ignore?
I feel I'm being pushed into having something to do with them by their pushy requests.
They aren't close to my family at all, they knew we had plans, why would they do this?

Chamonix

I remember you from previous postings.

Your ILs do this because they can and have no concept of boundaries. His parents are not going to accept any reasons for your no to their summons/demand that you attend their bbq.

Your family should not attend this out of obligation to these people, that is the very last reason why they should be going. Are any of them planning to attend anyway?. What do they think?.

What does your man think about this and his parents behaviours now?. What sort of a relationship does he have with them these days, is he for instance afraid of his parents and still wants their approval in all things?.

Re your comment:-

"Considering the unstable relationship they have with their son you'd think they'd keep a low profile and try to fix it, but no they continue to cross boundaries"

I did smily wryly at that (particularly the try to fix it reference) because this is your thinking, the thinking of a person who comes from an emotionally healthy family. Nothing wrong with that at all but it does not work here. You are going to have to further raise your own boundaries. The "rule book" governing familial interactions really does go out the window when it comes to dysfunctional families like Mr C's, it really does.

His parents really do not think they are doing anything wrong here, have never in their heads ever done anything wrong or are doing wrong now by asking your family members to attend. The concept of boundaries does not apply to them in their heads, they will always seek to ride roughshod over any boundary you care to set them. Their actions are steeped in power and control; they want absolute. This is what this is all about.

It sounds like you actually saw his parents face to face, that really does need to end as of now. Did you not leave immediately after MIL did her lemon sucking face?.

Attila. Thank your your response.
My family don't see quiet how toxic they are. My mum is very "Christian" and falls under the rise above, forgive forgive and see through mil to her insecurities. And said that she would go "if she could" (no intentions of going" and my Aunty is very much in the "don't want to offend, it's just a bbq" camp; and hasn't agreed took or said she can't.
My DH has got far better at standing up to them, we see them once a month, for perhaps 2 hours. But it causes a lot of issues as they want more etc. We can't ever keep up.
I've stopped trying to please mil, I'm polite but won't take any of her sh*t and she resents and thus ignores me now. Fil contacts DH, mil contacts DH through fil. We hear very little moaning from mil now, it's all sent via fil.
DH isn't prepared to cut contact and just wants them to be kept at arms length, but then they do this and try to contact with us through family. Push their way in.
When we have had minor disagreements fil (who I actually do believe to be a nice but controlled man) will turn up at the door trying to put mil's point across and achiever whatever it is mil wants.
It's very tiring and when we distance hem from dd all hell brakes loose.
I feel as if mil needs to do something really unforgivable for DH to give up on her, unfortunately she is not that stupid.
We left shortly after lemon face occurred. Not acknowledging it in any way. DH saw her strop on folding and suggested it was time to leave.

My Aunty is going to this bbq. She thought we were all invited.
People just don't seem to see how nasty mil can be. It's really got me down today I feel as if it's just done out of spite.

How an earth do people learn to not let people like this get to them

Hi All,

I've been lurking here for a while and hope this is the right place to let off a little steam really with those who may understand. Both my DH & I seem to have toxic families. My parents divorced when young, DF quickly moved on with new wife who couldn't stand us and made it VERY clear. DM did her best but ultimately used me as an understudy parent for my young DB at times, I get it, she was on her own, it was hard. And as a parent now I can see how hard it must have been and she really did try her best, I have also discovered in recent years that she protected us from A LOT of the truth of the situation with my DF and I respect her hugely for that as she didn't want to muddy our views, she never said a bad word against him in front of us, DF and DSTEPM on other hand never stopped bad mouthing DM.

DHs family have a similar start - his DPs divorced when fairly young, his DF moving on quickly with new wife and his DM on her own with him and is younger DS. His DF quickly lost contact with them and his DM was extremely vocal in her views and opinions on his DF, as were DH's GPs. He has since made contact with his DF and of course there are always 2 sides to every story and its starting to turn out that there have been lies/exaggeration/twisting of stories from DHs DM and GPs. Though, if someone is going to disappear from your life it isn't exactly an advert for a good defence.

Anyway, flash forward to now. I've never thought any of them were all that wonderful (both sides of our families) but since having DD it has really stirred up strong emotions in me, I find it really hard to understand how some of them have treat us the way they have, as children and even now, especially now that I have my own DC I just couldn't imagine behaving in the selfish manner they have displayed. Also since DDs arrival, despite chatter of excitement non of them, other than my DM show any interest whatsoever, FIL on occasion will make an effort. They are all fit & healthy, all still working full time but just have no interest at all.

My SIL has a DD and MIL & DHs GP show huge amounts of interest there, though not in our DD. Its the same old story, I believe my MIL to be a narcissist, I feel she sees her children as an extension of herself. SIL is the golden child and my DH is the scapegoat, therefore she and her child are to be worshiped as fantastic while DH and our DD barely get a sideways glance.

There are a million examples I could give but it all came to a head for me a few weeks ago when we had a birthday party for DD, it was in a private function hall. DDs friends were invited as were her cousins and I decided to extend invite to all GPs and GreatGPs. My DM didn't come as she was away but arranged something else with us so she could spend time with DD. FIL also couldn't make it but arranged something else. My DGM came. My DF and DSTEPM didn't come, barely made an excuse (couldn't be bothered) but suggested we go to visiting them the day after. I told them we were busy with a friend who was coming from another country to visit so weren't free. MIL, SIL & DHs GPs came but barely spoke to myself, DD or DH, instead fussing over SILs DD. It was even commented upon to me by another mum at the party that you would have thought it was DNs birthday and not DD the way they were fussing over her.

Now this, I think is what is stuck in my throat, I have noticed this behaviour, it is like this all the time but for someone outside to mention it shows me it is happening and I am not reading too much into as I often tell myself.

We are already LC with all them and I have decided they will not be invited to any birthday celebration again. DD is getting older so she will no doubt want more friends at parties/gatherings going forward and if they want to see her on her birthday they can make an arrangement. My DH seems fine with it all, he says he doesn't care about any of them and couldn't care less what they do. I just wish I could detach in a similar way, I just can't help feeling so sad about it all. I find it hard seeing other people with supportive GPs for their children and we have such a lack of interest from SOOOO many people. There is such blatant favouritism and selfish behaviour from them all it is hard to believe.

I have read toxic parents and they all fit the bill. I do truly believe they are missing out and I don't want to go NC as my DD really does love her cousin and NC would make that relationship difficult or possibly spill over into NC between the cousins. At the moment DD doesn't seem to notice the blatant favouritism and plays happily with her cousin.

Does anyone have an advice as to how I deal with this? I'm receiving counselling at the moment and its slow progress, I understand we will never have the relationships with them that we would like, but how do I get my feelings to acknowledge that, it just makes me so sad, I really feel very down about it all. Thanks for reading.

I don’t think its possible to get perspective or really see the toxic dynamic whilst you are enmeshed in it Why. Not that I'm advocating you just jump into NC and see how it works out because that would be tragically bad advice, But would it be possible to give yourself a substantial break from your family?
Some way to effectively put them on pause for a few months whilst you give yourself a little clear time to think and process without constantly having to deal with it?
You need personal thinking time to make a decision like this , and to know you never need to reconsider or second guess what you have done. The trouble with a toxic family dynamic is just how much of your head space it occupies and how little time there is for knowing what you want or need as opposed to feeding their needs, and fending off their behaviours. If you cant give yourself time to care for yourself then its a little like boiling a frog (and you get to be the frog) and really all you are effectively doing is using up huge amount of time and emotional energy pushing back the point in time where you finally cant take it any more.

On a practical note I would suggest you tell them you have some kind of project on which is in some way consistent with your interests. Writing a book ? Setting up a website, Training for a marathon ..anything which you can put up as a barrier to contact for several months.
Sadly the contact between you DD and her cousin may well be unable to survive much longer anyway. Once the cousin is old enough to understand and play on her favourite "golden child status" (not her fault but almost inevitable) it will not be a positive relationship for your daughter to have.

whyohwhy,

re your comment:-

"I have read toxic parents and they all fit the bill. I do truly believe they are missing out and I don't want to go NC as my DD really does love her cousin and NC would make that relationship difficult or possibly spill over into NC between the cousins. At the moment DD doesn't seem to notice the blatant favouritism and plays happily with her cousin"

But she will do in time and she won't thank you for exposing her to such either. Toxic stuff like this can and does go down the generations; the children of scapegoated adults more often than not become scapegoated themselves.

You are already in a low contact state with them and I would look to further distance yourself and make yourselves more unavailable. Maintain and further strengthen your own boundaries re these people.

Thanks both,

665 this comment is so accurate "The trouble with a toxic family dynamic is just how much of your head space it occupies and how little time there is for knowing what you want or need as opposed to feeding their needs, and fending off their behaviours."

And you are both right in that this golden child behaviour could of course be passed along. I am very aware of that possibly happening as they get older. I find myself torn at times because if I see SIL away from MIL/DHs GPs she is really pleasant, encourages the girls playing together and treats them fairly. When she is around MIL/GPs she settles into the background and lets them take over with their behaviour, which she never corrects, etc. she is passively involved if that makes sense? On her own she is fine with me & DH, but she wouldn't defend him or comment if he was being put down by MIL/GPs, probably protecting her status I imagine.

I have been maintaining low contact with both sides, I think I have seen MIL/GPs 8 times this year (including party) and my DF/STEPM 5 times. They have a different set of problems, in that there is no favouritism (though I'm sure when my step-siblings go on to have children there will be), they are very hard to be around, hyper critical of EVERYONE and very short tempered with my DD & my DBs DC so we have chosen to keep them away as much as possible. They show no interest in them anyway, unless it is on social media for public declarations of their love for them, bizarre! I am also finding it more difficult to be around them since finding out about some of my DFs actions when we were children.

I will continue with the low contact and raising of boundaries, I am finding I am getting better at being constantly busy, though I now feel inviting them to the party was a massive blip on my part, it wont be happening again. I will keep a watchful eye on DDs relationship with cousin, they are both very young and while I'm aware behaviours can be passed on I am also conscious of not assuming this will happen. DH has commented that SIL is fine on her own and different around MIL because she knows how to behave around MIL to get what she wants from her. SIL uses MIL often for babysitting (according to DH, SIL needs to keep MIL 'sweet' if she wants that to continue, if she goes against her she will withdraw her 'help') whereas we wouldn't want MIL or my DF/STEPM looking after DD alone.

Even typing that last sentence I realise we are actually in the better position. I just need to keep reminding myself of this! Thank you for your comments & advice and thank you for letting me rant, I find it very difficult in RL even to speak to friends as they don't understand what toxic families are like so I think it comes off as being bitchy. It helps to get it out, thank you!!

Can I post and let off steam as I don't feel I can tell anyone is RL.

I found out yesterday that my mother and father (in their 80s) intend to effectively leave everything in their will to my brother. He has not been the golden child but my mother says she feels that they owe it to him as they have not been good parents to him and that I would probably get it anyway as he is not in good health!

My mother is right they have been shit parents to both of us - they are selfish people who have lived selfish lives and let both of us down continuously - neither of us have been able to rely on them for anything in anyway. My mother has no contact with her family, no friends and my father only has long distance sporadic contact with his family. They caused immense problems in my marriage (to an abusive man) by telling lies and on one occasion by berating me for about an hour in front of him telling me I was a "useless daughter" - he was delighted as you can imagine. Despite all of this, when I got divorced I ensured that they got their money out of a business venture they shared with him at a detriment to my own financial settlement, I have continued to visit and listen to their whinges and their moans, supported them during bouts of ill health and had assumed that the burden of their care would fall to me as my DB lives some distance away and struggles to look after himself.

I have told them that I am unhappy about the will (although I understand that this is their decision). They now want me to go round to "thrash things out". My DB is innocent in all of this and is not aware of the situation - the money would make a tremendous difference to his life as it would mine Although I am ashamed to admit it, I know I would resent him if he inherited everything and I am now wondering whether this is my parent's parting gift - to fracture what little family there is left. I now feel like walking away and moving to a cheaper part of the country where my financial future will be more secure but wonder if it is wrong to leave elderly parents to their own device and to effectively limit my DC contact with their GPs (they are old enough to make their own decisions but love their GPs despite recognising they are very flawed people). I am also finding it hard to accept that my own parents could be some unthinkingly heartless even though I have plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Sorry that was so long

I would not go around there to "thrash things out" as they put it; you will come off far worse and they will simply further use the will as a stick to beat you with. its already being used as that.

Your parents have and continue to be selfish here, it sounds like they are going to leave the money to your brother as compensation for them being such rubbish parents. They have had a lifetime to make a difference when it came to you and your brother and they have not bothered or even wanted to do so.

I have been where you are fuckingmoles, cut out of my father's will and my mother left her estate to the grandchildren (because she didn't think her children needed it).
It's a whole heap of crap whichever way you look at it.
Thrashing it out won't solve anything. The best case scenario is that your brother shares with you, post probate. The worst case scenario is perhaps you chasing after them (metaphorically) saying 'it's not fair, it's not fair' and making yourself ill. Your parents couldn't give two hoots about you.
And don't make the mistake that I did with both parents which was to be the bigger person and care for and support them in their final years. You owe them nothing.
I walked away from the inheritance drama (5 siblings, 2 of us cut out of the will). Have been nc with those siblings (for other reasons) ever since. Do I miss them? No.
Do I miss my parents? No.

Thanks white it helps to have a response that doesn't suggest I'm being a grabby bitch.

As a parent I can't understand how they can do something so unfair and so potentially divisive. I've challenged her on a couple of things that she hasn't been able to deny (she usually claims not to remember doing some of the more awful things) and she's said "I'm going to write you a letter" but has never actually apologised or indeed written the letter. Not that it is something that I would want to read as her usual tack is to blame someone else or try to justify what she has done. My father is just unapologetically selfish and self-centred.

Happy endings are a myth, at least the ones where a fair outcome arises out of crap like this. There will be no sudden revelation that they have done wrong...again.
You can go and see them and they will not change their minds, its a sad fact that arguments very very rarely change peoples minds, ( I don’t mean arguing with each other here, but a rational well put together series of points that should convince someone of what you are saying)
So if you see them you will hear the same thing as they have already said, but possibly with a good dose of vitriol aimed at you either generally, or specifically for disagreeing with them.
If you need to see that happen because you have doubts it will work out that way then perhaps you do need to go, just to really know this is who they will always be.
I regarded "Walking away from my inheritance" as actually having forced my mother to invest it in professional healthcare. She would have happily destroyed my career and family, used me as a slave, in order to hoard what she had, which she would still then pass on to my sister (who wont look after her either)

Quite hard not to pass on that particular opportunity!

"She would have happily destroyed my career and family, used me as a slave, in order to hoard what she had, which she would still then pass on to my sister (who wont look after her either)"

Change she for he and sister for siblings, and you could be talking about my father 665.
That is exactly what he tried to do. He honestly expected the two of us to cook and clean for him, whilst he squirrelled away a monster pension.

Both of us work full time and I live 2 hours drive away.

FM - you aren't being a grabby bitch in any way shape or form. This kind of dysfunction cuts deep into your very soul. It hurts and hurts and it can be difficult to pin point exactly what it is that is hurting, because spoken aloud to someone who hasn't been through it, it can sound peevish and somewhat childish.
You're not going to get any sense out of either of them. Spend your energy on you and coming to terms with the crap

White - just curiosity, but were you at least partially treated less fairly because, by dint of your own efforts, you had been more successful in some ways than your slightly more "Golden" siblings?