"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[pocketsaviour]

It's February 2016, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I've been lurking on this thread for a couple of days and I think I should say hello bit scared

Typical story really, my mum would shout, smack and make me feel like the biggest POS that ever walked the earth. Everyone around me turned a blind eye.

Then when I was about 11 my brother started too. He was much more physically abusive and would make me fear for my life.

My mum has changed a lot since I was a child and the realisation of what she did now haunts her. We are incredibly close and she looks after my DS all the time, she is absolutely fantastic with him. I'm so sorry that some of your parents never realised what they had done

I feel anger towards those around me that never did anything. My mum had terrible PND and other mental health issues. I don't blame her anymore. But my dad? When I told him that my mum called me a disgusting pig? I wouldn't dream of letting someone call my child that. My teachers when I would burst into tears if they so much as raised a voice. When I never brought any lunch.

Sorry for the rant but sometimes it's nice to write things down. They feel more validated I think.

Does anyone else feel like they don't know how to be a good parent because they never experienced good parenting? I know not to smack him or be verbally abusive that's about it. How do I give him the self esteem I don't have but not go OTT?

I remeber this thread from its first days and am glad to have come back to MN again , though nothing has changed but I need a place to see some "normal" people .

To the poster before (my memory is bad with names and I'm on my phone so can't see the post now!) I know what you mean about it being hard to parent when you didn't have a normal parent.

My mums now started on my DC and I'm just so used to it "leeches" "morons" "paupers" "bastards" "shits" .... It's just everyday language for me to hear from her . I will never speak like this to them but at the same time I don't get shocked like others and now I'm getting quite scared about how far out of the realm of normality I am that I can't react like others when hearing these things .

Does anyone else feel like they don't know how to be a good parent because they never experienced good parenting?

You do not mention your son's father in your post. Is he around? Or other people with whom you can discuss parenting? For example, therapist, support via your council or GP, friend who knows what you went through, friend who works in childcare, healthcare, or social services and knows about child development, other?

I hear your anger. I feel angry about what happened to me, too.

I am not a parent yet, and what you write is one of my fears about becoming a parent. My DH fears it about the prospect of my becoming a parent, too, which does not reassure me. TTC is on hold for us.

Hope it's ok to post on here...I have before, quite a long time ago

For all of you who are still struggling with poisonous families of origin .

Things are really tough at the moment, I've had what I suppose is a kind of breakdown after a very difficult time at work (currently off sick) and decided to take the bull by the horns and start councelling.

I've begun talking about my childhood and since starting to discuss it in a safe space with some I trust (my therapist is great) everything has just come pouring out. I'm really struggling with it all.

One thing that has come out is the possibility of some form of sexual abuse. There's nothing concrete at the moment..I remember inappropriate comments...but more of a 'feeling' that something happened. Has anyone else dealt with something like this? How do you begin to deal with it?

Erin unfortunately my DP also suffered abuse as a child so he's in the same boat as me. I've considered talking about it to my health visitor but I'm worried she will think DS is at risk.

My husband (not dc biological dad) is from another culture where the parents are much like my mum anyway but not as toxic but will slap and swear at their kids and they grow up kinda immune to this sort of thing, so he isn't the best benchmark for great parenting (he doesn't hit dc or anything but doesn't bat an eyelid when my mum calls me a cunt for example ) . My ex husband I ran away from to a refuge so he isn't a good guide either !

Woah, I had shivers reading the first post. I confronted my dad about his physical and emotional abuse and he said "I can't remember". My mum, whilst not abusive, was definitely an enabler. In fact she enables my sisters abusive behaviour towards me and her now.

Great example....

My sister does not let anyone in her room. The council came out to inspect my mums house last week. My sister threatened to hit my mum if she let them in her room. Anyway, when my sister was out my mum looked in there. Her whole wardrobe was full of empty water bottles, used tampons all over the floor. Yet my mum wouldn't confront her because she is too scared! My sister has BPD (probably because of the childhood trauma she experienced from my dad, which she hasn't yet acknowledged) and flies off the handle. My mum doesn't understand that boundaries can be put in place with love and care. She has none.

I know what you mean about it being hard to parent when you didn't have a normal parent.

I completely relate to this too.

I know what you mean about it being hard to parent when you didn't have a normal parent.

I completely relate to this too.

Dandelionandfizz Is your DS at risk, though? It does not sound as if he is. Your HV may risk assess and then come up with a plan to support the family.

SS assessed my parents at least once and we as children were never separated from them. Whether this was the right decision or not, this was the decision that was made at the time. Your HV may be able to connect you to services for parents in your position, such as Home Start, or a council-run service. That way, you, your DP and your son could all be supported together.

flippinada I am in a similar position. In terms of how to deal with it, I am sort of in the middle at the moment, and can only list what I find helpful myself, which may not be the same for you. At the moment I have no choice but to accept that I do not know. This is terrible, but it is where I am, and I may always have to not know, because some family members are dead now. I have strategies for getting through the worst emotional moments. I am only hoping that the therapy is worth it - there is a thread in MH about how tough I am finding therapy, where I have had a lot of support.

flippinada I was also on medical leave from work for some months, although I am back now. I am fortunate in that work were and continue to be extremely supportive. Sometimes I feel as if my professional identity is the only identity I have .

Thank you erinaceus. I'll definitely check out your thread. It feels very much like I've opened Pandora's box, and that now the box is opened I can't keep a lid on it any more (I don't mean telling people, just in terms of how I feel right now. I don't know if that makes sense?

flippinada Yes, that makes sense to me. I felt the same. Now, I feel less overwhelmed by how I feel, but it has been a grim period and it lasted some months. I am still ambivalent about whether I should have opened Pandora's box at all, but it is done now. My thread is this one.

Erin not at all at risk as far as I'm concerned. I just don't seem to know what's acceptable and what isn't, previously I've taken example from a good friend but I've become more and more aware that she isn't a good role model either.

It's hard to know what to 'let go' and what lines should never be crossed. For example is it okay that he has weetabix for tea occasionally? When he has a tantrum and I put him in his cot while he screams am I neglecting him? I want to be the best parent I can be but not burn myself out trying to be Mary Poppins all the time.

I've spoken to the HV before about how to deal with behaviour and I do think explaining the situation mean she could better advise.

I have been lurking on this thread on and off but have never posted. I joined Mumsnet in Nov 2015 and posted on dementia but I now think it may be better on here. As it was a very long posting and I don't know if it is possible to transfer postings here is the URL I hope some of you can spare time to read it.www.mumsnet.com/Talk/dementia/2517841-Ailing-father-difficult-mother-I-need-to-rant
As you can see from the posting my mother has always been difficult but I do realise that she is in a horrible situation made worse by her belief that only family can provide care. After a relatively quiet few months. It has all kicked off again. She has known for months that we are going away to Italy on Saturday but when I mentioned it last night I was given the whole works. How I should be going to her. Your Dad might die any minute, you have the best of fathers, my lack of care etc (he needs absolutely total care, has no idea where, who or what we are). When with my mother we are not allowed to leave the house for more than 10 minutes without a public enquiy. Her words were such that now I think I should send my DH and kids off to Italy and I go over to her but I don't want to, being alone with her fills me with terror. Last night's rant, included the kids and hubby. (Usually DH is forbidden territory for her) She was going on as to why he has to come with you (If you read my previous posts you will see he travelled with me because I was so terrified of her.) She is threatening to "have words" when she sees them with my daughters after they told her they felt dislike for old people who they felt cheated them of their future at the referendum (we voted remain as my husband is likely to lose his job following Brexit but my mother insists we should share her political views.) and because they don't want to spend weeks at her house with no friends and nothing to do. (She doesn't approve of the internet, got rid of her video because she doesn't know how to work it, and has only terrestrial tv channels. She also disapproves of teenagers or anyone lying in bed beyond 8am.) I dread her confronting the kids because they won't put up with her nonsense as they don't have the overwhelming guilt and fear that I do.
I know I'm selfish and that my mother's situation is bad but the last few months have not been easy for us. My mother has no time for anyone else's health problems but my Dads and my adored sis and BIL. My younger daughter had metal rods put in her spine two years ago, during her time in hospital and recovery my mother never once phoned or text or sent her any sort of card or good wishes. Yet 3 months later when my sister and brother-in-law were ill (my sister donated a kidney to him). I had to travel over, drive family back and forth and care for her kids (exactly same ages as mine), during which time I could do no right. Even suggesting that my neice might like to see her parents first resulted in me being accused of not caring for my sister. I may add BIL has 2 brothers, sister and father living in same road as they. Anyway back to my family. Since January we have had a lot of issues with our second son, plus daughter's A levels and all they entail. Today my younger son went for a check up (he has the same condition as his sister) but we discovered that there are futher nurological problems which may require surgery to the head before they can tackle his spine. At same time my elder daughter was checked out. She is also affected but thankfully so mild that but for her siblings it would have remained undiagnosed. That's 3 of my 4 kids have problems but my mother ignores it blaming my husbands' genes ("there's nothing like that in our family"). She's the same with any medical things concerning me. Didn't believe me when I broke my ankle and is dismissive of hair loss that I suffered (following months of her hassle) in March 2015 so bad I now wear a wig It had started to grow back really well but has all gone again. I am having investigations into homones etc and take HRT and thyroxine, of which she disapproves. God only knows what she would do if she ever found I was posting on here.

frami,

You are not selfish at all, your mother has simply put that sort of unwelcome spaghetti head into your own head.

Your mother may be in a difficult situation now but it is really of her own making. This is compounded by her erroneous belief that only family can provide care. Your dad could live for several more years, she uses his possibly dying soon as emotional blackmail on you. She likely does not really care about him either.

What sort of a relationship, if any, do you have with your sister and what does she have to say about her parents?. Does she also blame you?

Your sister is likely to be the golden child in your family of origin and that is also a role not without price. She is unaware and does not know the price to be paid however.

How much contact do you have with your mother now; I would further lower this and work through your own feelings of FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) with a therapist. Keep on putting your own family unit first, they need you as much as you need them. It may be beyond the pale now but I feel that no contact with your mother would only be of benefit to you as a family unit.

It is not your fault your mother is the ways she is, you did not make her this way. Her own family of origin did that lot of damage to her. People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles; you seem to be the scapegoat for all their inherent ills. She does not give a fig about your family unit or you for that matter, its all about her only. You should all travel to Italy, for goodness sake do not go to your mother. Its just more emotional blackmail from a woman adept in such, she has been doing this her whole life because she can and it works for her. Such behaviour is more often than not learnt (she likely learnt this from her own abusive parents).

Attila thank you. I do know that my Dad could live for several years however the situation is not helped by fact that last year he was given a week to live. That's what prompted my original thread on dimentia.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/dementia/2517841-Ailing-father-difficult-mother-I-need-to-rant
so my mother has this over me that he might die anyday and I will be a monster if I am not there, and haven't seen him for several months. She also throws at me how DH visited his parents when they were ill every week and that I moaned about it. ( I did sometimes but my I had 4 young children at the time). Also in laws lived only 2 hours drive away not 4 hours drive plus 4 hours at sea. Even if I manage to get a cheap flight I takes me at least 4 hours to get to her and when I dared mention the cost of all the last minute flights we made last December...
As for my sister yes she is the golden child (again reference dimentia post). We were very close something my mother hates. She has driven a wedge between them. For example threatening to get my sister to "put me right" when sister knew nothing of this and had come to see me to say goodbye and bring Xmas gifts.
I have had counselling and it helps but every now and then I lose control again. Thankfully I have a great relationship with my kids and very supportive DH. They all say go to Italy and I am determined to do so especially as DS2 wants to join and possible DS1 (shifts permitting). However I shall be under great pressure to go over when I get back and heaven help me should Dad die when I am on holiday. Mum won't ring us (I have to ring her at set times currently every two days cause dad is "unwell") and won't accept that travel insurance will enable us to come back if needed. Also if he dies I will be expected to remain with her for months after. I am not going to do so but still worry. In fact I spend my whole life worrying about her, she haunts my sleep and makes me feel paralysed when she starts again.

I am getting married but my brother has threw his toys out of the pram and his partner sent me a load of abusive messages on FB. I don't have any other siblings and our parents and grandparents are all dead. It makes me sad that my brother cannot be supportive and cannot cope with not being the centre of attention as apparently I am a bad sister for not giving him an important role for my big day. My brother and I have never been close and he only ever rings me when he wants money and becomes emotionally abusive when I refuse to give him money. I normally go to see visit once a month (200 mile round trip) but apparently I am a bad sister as I don't visit enough ( this is despite me working very long hours). My brother has been to see me once in eight years (and only because I paid for the train ticket).

I stopped replying to the FB messages and haven't heard anything since. He hasn't made any effort to contact me at all.

Apparently I am a bad sister as I -
Am getting married 2 minutes walk from where I live (not 100 miles up the road where he lives) and I have done this on purpose to deliberately make it difficult for him to attend. To not do a 200 mile round trip to pick him up the day before my wedding (even though he could easily ask for a lift off one of the other guests). To not put cash behind the bar so that he can have free drinks all night. To not let him walk me down the aisle and to walk myself down the aisle. To not pay for a seperate wedding car just for him. All of the above was accompanied with threats that it would affect my brothers mental health and I would be responsible if I didn't comply with his demands.

I've got the stage where I have just had enough (and his behaviour and emotional abuse is affecting my health). It just makes me sad that my brother can't be happy for me and supportive for once

Frami your mum reminds me of my dad. I soon learnt not to tell him about any days out, friends birthday parties, cinema trips as a child as there would always be some type of 'kick off' which would prevent me from going. It's as though they are miserable therefore you should be miserable and cannot stand the thought of someone doing something nice/fun/enjoyable. You should go on holiday and not let her suck everything enjoyable out of your life.

Usernamegone that is exactly how my Mother is. I try to keep to a minimum what I tell her but she is surrounded by relatives (Mum is one of 14 kids and I'm related to most of the village) who tell her what they see on social media so the most innocent of comments "saw you GD photo beautiful etc" get thrown back at me. For a few months I'll cope then it will as now all blow up again leaving me feeling drained as though all life is being sucked out of me, as I constantly battle to send her out of my head. My DS 2 is home he like the girls and DH is telling me to tell Nanny where to go. At least they are now old enough that I no longer have to pretend that I adore my mother (this is a very recent change). I am going on this trip but I am terrified of the earfull I am going to get when I ring her. It's tempting not to ring till we get back but I actually fear that if I don't and my Dad were to die when I'm away my Mother might not tell me!

Usernamegone - Forgot to add. Have a wonderful wedding day, enjoy every minute.

I have it so that both of them cannot see my wall on FB - cue Facebook posts about 'someone' being spiteful and petty from them. The trouble is that if I don't block them from my wall then everything that get twisted into a poor me story and an excuse to guilt trip me and extract money e.g. If I am in London. B - I saw you were in London why can you afford to go to London but you couldn't give me money yesterday. User - I had to go for work, etc. I once was berated for spending £20 on a night out on my own birthday!

Usernamegone - Yes that's what I get even though my mother refuses to have anything to do with any form of modern technology (she thinks Facebook should never have been invented) but still tackles me should she hear of anything that I've posted. "you never told me you were going to..." She also voices her disapproval of the cost of things but not directly. I will get a comment about "how the other half live", "middle classes" etc this coming from someone who has 3 times my DH annual salary stashed away is secret account, plus property and a whole lot more!

So I've decided to take the plunge and post on here instead of creating a new thread, again. Apologies for high jacking, I haven't read any PP but will do.

This year, things have actually been ok with my mum after I told her just before Christmas, that she needed to stop telling me what to do but I've had many issues in the past with my narcissistic mother, a few of which I have posted about. What I'm posting about now wasn't really an issue until my DP just asked me "so what are you going to do about your mum?" I asked him what he meant and he asked me when I was going to apologise. I told him we've had this conversation many a time before and he knows I'm not pandering to her.

Background to this event. My washing machine was being very noisy a couple of weeks ago, so much so, we didn't do any washing as the only time we had was when DD was in bed as we both work during the day. Washing machine then gets fixed but for some reason the new drum was making our washing really smelly, so in total, our washing had built up over 10 days until we got a new door rubber to elliviate the smelly issue.

On the day we got the new door rubber, we had an estate agent coming over to give us some information and so my mum offered to give the house a once over while we were both at work before the estate agent came. As things have been pretty good, I accepted her offer.

Beforehand she asked if I wanted to give her my washing, I declined and said we'd take it to the launderette if the washing machine wasn't fixed on that day.

Anyway, I pick my DD up and as soon as I walk into her house, she starts about how much washing had built up, and how I could let it get that way (for what it's worth, it was one laundry basket full), when was I planning on doing it, how do I think I'm going to catch up on it all and she has this horrible nasty look on her face. I asked her why she was bothered, she then repeated "why am I bothered?! Etc etc" So before she got into her rant I told her I couldn't be F'in bothered this, went outside and picked my DD up off the garden to go home. As I was getting my DD she quickly followed me outside and started ranting and raving, I told her not to speak to me like that in front of my DD and we left. I told my DP and he said that she isn't welcome in our home anymore (this isn't really a problem, she never comes to our home anyway).

Anyway, that was last Monday. She hasn't spoken to me since (usually calls me EVERY day) and instead of me picking up my DD from her house, she is making my DF drop her off - her way of saying I'm not welcome. None of this I'm bothered about, in fact, my life is much easier and I find it quite laughable, but what has annoyed me is my DP thinking it's my place to apologise.

It has nothing to do with her how much washing we have to do and he was more annoyed than I was. I don't have anything to apologise for, I didn't raise my voice, I didn't argue with her and I left before I said something I'd regret.

This is just a whole load of babble that I needed to write down so don't even know if it makes sense.

offside

It is not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist.

Why does your DP at all think you should apologise is itself an issue which needs further addressing; presumably his own relationship with his mother is far more emotionally healthy so thinks like this. If he cannot or equally will not try and understand this dysfunctional dynamic then he is a problem also. I would basically remind him that the rulebook gets thrown out the window when it comes to dysfunctional families. It also takes two to make a relationship work and your mother is only interested in her own self interest.

Re your comment:-
"On the day we got the new door rubber, we had an estate agent coming over to give us some information and so my mum offered to give the house a once over while we were both at work before the estate agent came. As things have been pretty good, I accepted her offer"

This was in hindsight a mistake on your part and one you must not repeat. I did not have to read the rest of it to realise what was coming next and I was proved right in that she did become nasty towards you.

I would also find alternative childcare as of now for your DD; she does not need your mother, or father for that matter, in her life. Your dad is basically the bystander and her willing enabler in all this, he goes along with this out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. He cannot be at all relied upon either as he is really her hatchet man. In a straight contest he would choose his wife over you as his daughter. Women like your mother cannot do relationships so the men in their lives are either as narcissistic as they are or are long since gone or otherwise discarded. These people were not good parents to you, what makes you think that they will be at all decently behaved around your child?. They are not. What many adult children of narcissists trip up on is the narcissists ability to adapt to changing circumstances. Some seem to want to believe that the narcissistic parent/s will behave better this time around despite their own overwhelming evidence that shows otherwise.

You need to further raise your boundaries re her and not tell her anything of any importance whatsoever. I would keep yourself and your child well away from your mother. She was not a good parent to you and will be a crap grandmother figure to your child to boot.