"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[pocketsaviour]

It's February 2016, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I am new to this thread.
I have struggled to understand a lot of what went on in my childhood, I think when you're a child you just accept what is happening as the norm, but over the past few years and particularly in the last year since I became a parent I am really struggling to come to terms with what happened.

Was my childhood abusive? I was born in the early 80's so I don't know if it was just the way things happened then. I know for sure that particularly my mother overstepped the mark sometimes, but I don't know whether I'm being too sensitive about it.

I grew up in a middle class area to middle class parents. I always had what I needed in terms or clothes etc. And I had an expensive hobby which my parents funded and ferried me back and forth to several times a week with no complaint whatsoever.

Hopefully this doesn't turn into an epic length post, but I have just put some thoughts and memories below to try and makes sense of how I was treated.

I was dragged by my hair by my mother, I can't recall what I had done but I assume it was because I had got out of bed when I was supposed to be asleep, which I think I did quite a lot and I was usually smacked for it by my father.
Bitten to show me how it felt when my brother falsely accused me of biting him.
She was always in a bad mood, I can remember wanting to ask if I could have a biscuit and being terrified of asking in case she got angry with me.
She sometimes had terrible rages which resulted in her leaving the house and driving off for an hour or so.
She absolutely lost the plot with me when trying to teach me how to tie shoelaces and I didn't understand.
I remember trying to have conversations with her. She'd be watching the TV and not listen or reply to me.
I was never told I was loved. I don't remember any affection or cuddles.
From the age of about 10 I had to cook for myself.
I just felt like a nuisance a lot of the time, something that I still feel to this day. I tend not to ask for help or talk about how I'm feeling as I assume I will be dismissed.
She was very critical of my appearance, I recall as a teenager being told I look rough and to put some make up on.
She would say things in front of people, she called me a slut in front of my best friend when i was 14.
My brother used to punch me whenever he felt like it. I remember on my 15th birthday sitting on my own in the living room and he just walked in, punched me on the arm and walked out again.
There were never any repercussions for him hitting me. I remember when I was very little telling my mum that he hit me and she just told me to go and hit him back. This resulted in him hitting me even harder so I just learnt to accept it.
One day in school he punched me in the playground, a teacher saw and told him off and he just couldn't believe it. "But she's my sister!" As if that made it ok.

I don't remember my dad featuring a lot in my life when I was very young. He didn't used to get home till after I'd gone to bed so I suppose I didn't see him much. He was never a hands on dad and I think my mum was pretty much left to bring us up which must have felt hard for her.

Even as an adult I feel like they exclude me. I was still living at home and they invited my brother and his wife over for a barbecue and I wasn't invited. They go away with my brother and his wife and don't invite me, they help when he moves house and have never helped me etc.

There are a million and one other little things that have happened but this will turn into a novel soon!
I suppose I just want to know whether my parents were abusive or not. I can't imagine ever treating my little boy even remotely like that and I'm finding it hard to process.
From my teens through to my late 20's I self harmed and have suffered from anxiety and I'm wondering now how much of it is related to my upbringing, so would really appreciate any thoughts.

millstream

I could have written your post word for word, more or less - and yes you were abused. I'm so sorry.

What happened to you wasn't normal at all - you deserved so much better. I know it's such a shock to realise that the people who should be in your corner unreservedly, just weren't at all. In fact they probably didn't even like us that much.

How old are you if I can ask? And do you still see your family?

I was in my mid forties before I realised the world of damage my parents had done to me, and why I had felt crap all my life. But do you know what? It's so liberating to know that now, and deal with it.

Please - read, read, read. There is so much information online about toxic parents and (most of it anyway) is so incredibly useful. You can do this.

Also - this thread seems to come and go , but there are some lovely people who post on it. Hopefully they'll be along before too long.

Wishing you strength, and lots of

Greenleaf, thank you. It means so much to hear that it's not me and it wasn't normal.

I'm finding it very hard to come to terms with. I spent my late teens and 20's stumbling from one disfunctional relationship to another. I've been physically and sexually abused by men and I blame my parents in part for me accepting being treated so appallingly by them.

I am 33 now and yes, I do still see them, although not often. They are much more accepting of me since I met my now husband. I rarely see my brother, I wouldn't be bothered if I never saw him again.

I know that there are many people who had far, far worse childhoods than me but above all I just can't understand why. Why would you bear a child for 9 months and treat it badly? All I want to do is make my son feel safe and loved.

How did you go about dealing with your abusive childhood?

Millstream -

"I know that there are many people who had far, far worse childhoods than me" .

Actually you probably don't. Your childhood sounds really shit - you didn't need to be locked in a cellar for ten years to have suffered an abusive childhood. This really isn't a competition.. Please don't minimise what you went through.

And I'm so sorry you ended up with abusive men. You are absolutely right our parents conditioned us to put up with that world of crap, but it sounds like you've brilliantly managed to move beyond that now, and have a happy partnership and a child, which is wonderful.

It can help to realise that parents like yours and mine work from a script. And the more you find out about emotionally abusive childhoods the more you will understand that it really isn't you or me, it's them.

I find what helps when I have to deal with my hideous parents is to move to "observer" mode. I put on my amateur psychologist's hat and watch what they (especially my mother) do/does. Totally fascinating. I don't react - I don't let anything get to me. I just watch. That way they just can't touch me any more.

Millstream - you're going to be ok, you know. The fact you've realised this at 33 is excellent, loads of time to reclaim yourself. And know that it never, ever was you. It was them.

All the very best to you.

The whole people that had it worse comment is part of the script I'm sure! I know I'm constantly told but people had it worse but people have done worse and still been forgiven, it's been drummed into you that it wasn't that bad, and sure people have had it worse and people have done worse to their kids but it doesn't make it ok. It's like telling someone that was mugged and beaten that at least the didn't stab them! Or something like that, hope that makes sense lol! Your childhood was abusive it was bad enough! But the dismissive nature of the wounds they gave you makes it so so much worse imo.

As to how I handled mine, well the abuse had carried on to my kids and they were still treating me like crap so I've chosen to walk away and go no contact, it's early days and I'm finding it hard but I'm told it gets easier. Xxx

What was it about the eighties that we all have to preface it almost an apology. It was thirty years ago, not three centuries, even if childrearing has changed so much for the better since we endured it?

I'm much older than you, Millstream - late 50s. My parents are dead, and this is one of the few places where I can add the words, thank goodness. I had a terrible relationship with them since puberty. Only recently I have realised - lightning bolt realisation - that it was not my fault. I was a child

Before I was born my parents read Dr Spock's childcare manual. From that they learned never to hit a child. We were never hurt physically in any way. But I don't think Dr Spock suggested demeaning and disliking a child instead of smacking! I had full on abusive behaviour inflicted on me, but they were NOT ABUSIVE since they never hit me

You were treated appallingly Millstone. Now you can begin to separate from them as much as you can manage. Reclaim your life

Hi, I've been posting in mental health section as I been struggling a bit. I self referred for counselling for anxiety but the sessions so far have sent me back to all the feelings and thoughts that were there when I had a depressive episode 19 years ago. Marchate has been hand holding and she suggested I come over here. I've read the OP, and I'm typical to the script that I feel a bit of a fraud, when it's small things, that have added up and I feel that I've been over sensitive.

Good evening all you good people and a big welcome to anyone who is new to this thread.

Just a quick update before I go to bed. Been to see dad today. Dh went to see him less than 2 weeks ago and he was looking normal IYSWIM. He is now leaking badly to the point where mum has to change his bandages 4-5 times a day. He is very jaundiced as well, so I think he may well have less than 2 months left with us.

I was talking to dad about an incident that happened with DS (a neighbour's boy of 8yo has instigated a 7+month campaign of kicking, punching and hitting DS). The lad (let's call him X) initially claimed that kicking DS was an accident. I can count on one hand the number of days DS came home and DIDN'T complain about being hit, kicked or punched by X. I always told DS not to hit back (DS is 11yo) as he was too old to be hitting a boy of X's age. Just before DS lost it with X, I told him that once or twice may well be an accident, but to hit or kick him virtually every day, for over 7 months, is not an accident, it's a sustained campaign by X to try and take him down. 2 days ago X repeatedly kicked DS, so DS lost his shit and took X down. He left X with a few bruises and a bit of a winding, but nothing that needed hospital treatment.

I'm still waiting for the police to call at our door as I know DS can be arrested due to his age. This other lad can't as he's under 10yo. I spoke to my friend about it and she said that a younger child can't bully an older one It was one of those 'WTF' moments. I told her that it didn't matter the age of the bully if they're over 6yo. At 7yo, this boy know that hitting people was wrong, but didn't give a shit. His mum lets him play 18 rated games and DS has said that X swears something terrible when playing those 18 rated games (DS has been in X's room when X has play a couple of those games). I'm absolutely exhausted with all this, on top of helping care for dad in his last weeks. I don't need the shit this has caused, but TBH, I think the lad got what he deserved. I know if DS had let his temper fly, X would have been in a much worse state. DS is very adept at controlling his temper, but is 99% more likely to come home complaining.

Anyway, I'm off to bed as I'm about to drop off. Will be back tomorrow morning.

I'm new to stately homes but after reading the zombie thread on smacking it's triggered something and I can't sleep without getting it out.

I have what I would consider a dysfunctional family. My childhood left alot to be desired. I suffered what I consider to be physical abuse by both of my parents. As did my young sister. She was what I'd call spirited but she didn't do anything which deserve what we got.

I wasn't a naughty child at all although talking to my mother you would think I was off the rails. The rest of my family disagree with her perception of how I was and I think she's convinced herself I was difficult in order to justify the abuse.

We were hit for anything and with anything hands, brushes, mops, belts by both parents and usually hard enough to leave marks although they were always clever enough to do it somewhere that my clothing would cover. I used to jump in and take the beating for my sister as I couldn't stand to see her be hurt. Both parents had vicious tempers and frequently took it out on us once I remember us giggling in bed after being told to go to sleep and my dad coming in and ripping the bed covers off and hitting us several times with his belt. Of course they deny this happened but both my sister and I recall it vividly.

They deny they hit us frequently or hard. My dad stopped hitting us when I was maybe about 13 as I started standing up to him so my mum got more vicious with hair pulling, slapping and punching. The last time she did it I was 17 and I slapped her back for that I got a black eye but she didn't hit either of us again. I went into school with my black eye and told them who caused it. Nobody believed me. My mum was on the PTA and an upstanding member of the community of course she couldn't and wouldn't do that.

Worse than the physical abuse was the shouting and pitting me and my sister against each other so much so that by the time we were teens we hated each other and used to get into violent fights. These days we are the best of friends. We were the dirty smelly kids at school yet nobody batted an eyelid. My mother's parents and family all knew of our beatings but nobody stepped in to stop it or help us. As a parent I can't understand that part. I'll never raise a hand to DD but I can't imagine either sitting back and doing nothing knowing another child was being beaten.

I've always felt resentment about my childhood and anger towards my parents but more than that I feel ashamed although I have no idea why as it's not my shame to bare it's theirs.

My self esteem is non existent and I'm a bit of a cold person I can't make friends or keep friendships going and I think that's because I don't know how. I don't remember any affection as a child not being hugged or kissed and I don't ever recall hearing my parents say they love me.

Since having DD my resentment towards my parents is worse than ever and I don't know how to get over it or move past it? They deny doing what they did and think I should be grateful for my childhood.

I'll never forget my dad hitting me for no reason and saying "if that's what you get for nothing wait and see what you will get for something"

Good morning ncpg. One thing I've learned is that being shown love and how to love is one of the ways we learn to connect with people. It helps us to keep friendships going. Without love, our ability to care and become respectful to others can become restricted to a certain few IYSWIM.

Your childhood WAS abusive, both emotionally, mentally and physically. The 'Upstanding member of the community' is a fantastic cover for narcs. I would guess (and it's just a guess, not a diagnosis) that your mum either has a personality disorder (PD) of some type. Going on what you have told us here, she may well be narcissistic. Does she cut you off for minor things like standing up for yourself, or correcting her, with facts, on something that she did or say, but she totally denies? If she does, it seems that she knows you'll blow her cover at some point and/or she doesn't want to have to face up to what she has done to you and your sister (it would be incredibly shameful and embarrassing for her to admit it).

People who are narcissistic are usually 'lovely people on the surface, but incredibly ugly underneath'. By that I mean that their façade is that of a wonderful 'caring, loving' (and a very convincing) person, but that covers their verbal, physical and emotional abuse dished out by them, to others (the ugly bit). They tend to use covers, like in your case, PTA membership or some other job/voluntary work to make out that they are very good people. Their stories of how they went NC with someone because of and it was wearing on them too much now. They lay the old 'woe is me' drama on pretty thick and twist things convincingly to make people think that they are the victim, or that someone drove them to their abusive behaviour. When people find out what they are/were actually like, the narcissist tends to cut that person off (making up some excuse) to stop their ugly side being leaked out. Exposure of their abusive behaviour is something narcs will do almost anything to avoid.

Anyway, I must go now, but take care of yourself and I'll be back later to natter . I've a fair bit to do today, so will crack on and get it done. Hopefully someone else will

Hopefully someone else will come along and add something else to help you see a bit more clearly

Sometimes we can't see so clearly because of our natural instinct to see the good in people, and with that, we tend to try and see the good rare in our abusive childhood so we say that it wasn't all bad, and that there were kids worse off than we were. It's absolutely fine doing this, but it doesn't make your childhood any less abusive. It helps us lessen the emotional impact of the reality of the situation. Sometimes facing up to that reality can be scary, but pushing yourself through your discomfort of acknowledging your past can be empowering and cathartic.

How do you deal with your parents now ? My mother plays games . Is vile and nasty when upset - you can't comfort her she is upset she wants you to be . She lies so much yet I love her ?

chiggers you described my mother perfectly. I've been saying for several years she has some sort of personality disorder and is not a stable person.

Both her and my father were cruel to my sister and I my brother however who's the youngest has never had a finger laid on him and is very much the golden child of my mother. Interestingly enough him and father don't get on at all.

I struggle massively with friendships it's not that I don't want to have friends as I do desperately so it's just I have no idea of how to keep them going I can be so socially awkward and find it so difficult although that would probably come as a massive surprise to people who know me as to the world I'm a outgoing bubbly person but it's a facade I learned from childhood. I don't do affection to anyone but my DH and DD if anyone else tries to hug me I flinch and try to move away as I'm so uncomfortable with it.

My relationship with my mother's gotten worse since I had DD last year. I didn't need her like she wanted and so she told everyone I was excluding her from DD and that I must have postnatal depression because I was just so awful to her. All of that is utter nonsense of course I just didn't and down want to palm DD off onto people for no reason and wanted to spend my time with her whilst on maternity leave. There were so quite awful things said by my mother because I wasn't dancing to her tune with DD and typically alot of people believed her this past year I've came close several times to going NC with her.

My dad had an explosive temper but unlike my mother he made no attempt to hide it from anyone on the outside so he's never been well liked.

I've tried to distance myself and have been low contact for several years with my parents unfortunately that's shifted recently as my dad walked out on my mother and she's using myself and my sister as her leaning posts for some reason I haven't felt able to tell her to do one. She's crying abuse from my dad but to be honest they are both as equally abusive to each other.

I'm actually finding it really difficult to step back from her due to this separation without feeling I'm being unkind. I guess I'm still caught in the FOG much more than I realise and have no idea how to change it

wine my mother plays games too as does my gather I actually think that my parents are probably an example of the rare occasion of two narcs finding each other

Gosh ncpg53 your mother sounds so similar to mine. I was very young having my first 2 so just did what she said but found my feet with 2nd 2 and she does not like it one bit.

My dad was also the one with the obvious problems and my mother has hidden behind him as the poor martyr. It took a while to realise she was worse.

I'm very uncomfortable with physical contact as well apart from husband and children, one of my closest friends made it her mission to make me comfortable hugging her and it has actually helped a great deal cause I trust and love her a lot.

Also really struggling with feeling like me the bad guy especially as she likes to tell me how selfish and uncaring I am, I keep clearing the fog just for it to come back in thick. We are currently no contact though after she started yet another argument and then blamed me for it all and said she had done nothing wrong. It's all so hard and I'm fed up of hurting and being confused.

All my extended family are meeting today and I'm not going to avoid her and it's just going to be like that forever now. I've been the outcast due to her nasty words to them for a long time but days like this it really hits me.

Looking at your story I'd say you have every right to walk away and never look back she has treated you terribly but I know how hard it is to see when you are in the thick of it. Big hugs xxx

helpme you sound so similar to me. Until MN I thought I was the only person who had my childhood and felt if I even hinted towards went on people found it hard to believe me perhaps because it's not a normal family dynamic.

My DH even struggles to get his head around what I've told him as he can't see past the outside persona of my parents however the mask has slipped with my mother since we had DD and I think he's seen the real her.

I also get called selfish and uncaring, it's exhausting trying to keep up with it to be honest.

Realising that I'm still very much caught in the fog hit me like a tonne of bricks this morning. I really thought I was free and past it but I'm not and I'm struggling with that realisation.

I always think of gojng nc but I guess I'm scared of the ramifications if I do it. My parents don't speak to any of their parents or siblings. I have a relationship with my mums parents but my mum ensured there was no contact or formation of relationships with any of my dad's family. They were beneath her and we were not to associate with their sort so in essence we've been isolated and don't have any extended family. My DH, DD and my sister's family are all I have to count on.

helpme have you found that your mother has intensified her campaign against you since you've had your 2nd 2 kids? How does your husband react to your mum?

I thought it was normal yet felt I was different, like I was the problem. Suffered from depression, self harm, suicidal thoughts. My mum also has a habit of pointing out how awful other mothers are as if she is better because she doesn't do that.

My dh has never struggled with it, my family have known his family since before we were born and his parents knew what my dad was like and since i was 15 when we got together he also saw a lot of what I dealt with.

I have days where I feel like I'm clear and I'm doing well and others like today when I'm just like wow I can't do this anymore. I just hope it gets better and these days get less.

I wish there was some way to keep the peace instead of no contact but she knows my buttons and always drags me down to her level and I can't seem to help it. I hate myself for it and it makes me feel like I'm. No better than her.

We have always been in contact with most of my extended family but I don't feel part of the family. She has triangulated and I don't think we will ever be close. I have one cousin (the only one who took the time to hear both sides) and we are like sisters but the rest I doubt we will ever be close. I do have my husband side though and they are great (sometimes annoying and full on but just typical in laws lol) what are your in laws like? I also have 3 brothers but they are all under mothers spell lol my eldest brother sees it but needs her too much for childcare and he is massive abusive asshole anyway.

I think it has intensified. But my brother also had kids around the same time and he is very needy of her along with the fact I didn't include her in my 4th birth and she has said she doesn't care for my youngest due to that and it's my fault. She says she wants it back like when we were best friends (when my eldest 2 were younger and I let her control me) and that's why she kicks off because she isn't happy with our relationship..

Sorry I waffle and just type what's in my head so sorry if it doesn't make much sense lol x

Oh and my husband wants nothing to do with my mum. He is a lovely man who likes everyone and would do anything for anyone but cannot stand her..speaks volumes to me really xxx

Hi everyone. Ive never posted on this thread. If its the wrong place and i need tp start a new thread, pls tell. Its really for my husband. He started psychotherapy in relation to his relationship with his family. Everything was 'great' until he met and married me. He was the golden child and now most definately isnt. He is reeling from this. And we have been married for 15yrs. There was pressure for us to conform and fit in and it was making me ill (mentally). Then he finally started therapy back in sept. Its like he is suddenly seeing things clearly. However, he is getting panic attacks, hypeventilating, mood swings. He thankfully doesnt want to stop therapy. Are these physical symptoms normal ij his situation? Thanks x

Welcome to the thread HelpMe and WizzyWig. Brought some and

HelpMe, during your abusive childhood you were conditioned to fear your mum. When little she may have smacked you and then blamed you for making her do it. This is not your fault. Her actions are her responsibility and hers alone. As you grew, she will have realised that you could have gone and spoke to someone about the abuse or maybe even hit her back. Her fear would have been her abuse of you being exposed and so she would have blamed you for embarrassing her and putting her on the spot, if SS had become involved.

You've been conditioned to feel obligated to your mum for bringing you into the world. You are not under any obligation to pander to her moods, whims or tantrums. Let her talk about how uncaring and selfish you are. All you have to do is wait for the decent people to come to you to find out what the score is and you can decide whether to tell them the reasons for your decisions. If they're decent, they'll listen and will soon realise that your reasons are valid and that your mum is not the woman everyone else believes her to be.

You've been conditioned to feel guilty for doing anything to upset/anger her. Her reactions are hers alone and only she is responsible for them. You may feel guilty for her upset, but fear of her backlash for doing so is another factor that is hard to escape. You don't need to feel fear, guilt or any obligation toward your mum. Mothers should only bring their DC into the world because they love them and want to do what's best for their DC. Not to use and abuse them, then blame the DC for the abuse by twisting things.

WizzyWig, I hope your DH manages to see his parents for who they really were. He needs to realise that you were there for him throughout the 15yrs you've been married. It sounds like his parents dropped him like a hot brick when he married you and it could be that they see you as having 'took their son away from them' IYSWIM. They may well have only been nice to your DH so they could compare his sibling(s) to him. Maybe his siblings are not doing as well materialistically as your DH, but they may have stood up to your PIL, so they've been classed as 'of no use', and so your DH has had the role of GC.

My brain has just melted with thinking LOL. Had about 3hrs sleep last night as my back was sore, so it was one of those nights and I'm totally knackered . I'm still cheery though. Always will be as my favourite saying for situations with narcs in is: "Never let the bastards grind you down. Pick yourself up, stand sure-footed, and learn from your past to make a better future".

Ah thanks for that chiggers. I don't actually remember her hitting me (other than a slap around the face as a teenager) but my dad was so overwhelmingly violent that it's mostly those memories in my head, I just never felt wanted or loved by my mum I figured I was the problem though and it wasn't until I told my mum that what I went through and saw as a child had negatively affected me and she told me I was over reacting and we had a normal childhood that I started to see who she was. and I think you are right in thinking she is embarrassed by it and wants everyone to think she's amazing mum so thought shutting me down would convince me I was wrong and no one would know what I went through (obviously now I see she knows she was a terrible parent as well) but all that did was make me shout louder as I wanted validation. Had she just validated me there and then I probably would have left it and felt supported by her etc. She keeps kicking off over irrational things and telling me it's because I'm a liar and stuff like that because she is still trying to shut me down I guess.

I've always felt so so guilty about everything and everyone like somehow I'm responsible for everyone else's feelings or something. And I see from the things she says now that she tries her hardest to induce guilt from me as a way to get me back in my box.

Wizzywig. I think with counselling it often gets worse before it gets better. Hang on in there and lots of love and support your way

Thanks helpme and chiggers. He just received a text (just a bland 'miss you') text from his sister. He had to run to the loo as he got such a bad stomach ache reading it. Im hanging in there definately. His relationship with the kids has gotten so much better since the counselling started. He is actually enjoying them for the first time. And my eldest is 10.

Oh and chiggers so sorry your dad isn't doing so good. Huge hugs your way.

As for the problem with your son yes kids can be assholes aged 7 and I'm sorry he pushed your son so far. How are things? Did the police come? xxx

Helpme, they try so so hard to get you back where they can control you.