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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

If your father left you to die [Trigger warning for addiction/alcoholism added by MNHQ]

522 replies

WildeWoman · 29/01/2016 01:05

By leaving you to die, I mean 'she's an alcoholic, what can you do'.

And you later found out that he may have been complicit in welfare fraud..........

Would you report him?

OP posts:
WildeWoman · 29/01/2016 15:03

definitelybutter - I'm not going to apologise to you for what your father's illness did to you. It's shit. But it is not my fault. So to answer your question bluntly - No.

OP posts:
definitelybutter1 · 29/01/2016 15:05

WildeWoman - I'm not asking you to apologise for my father's behaviour. I'm not asking for an apology at all. What I was asking was, if you thought that you had upset someone accidentally by making that comparison, would you consider making an apology? Would you acknowledge that you had caused hurt?

HumptyDumptyHadaHardTime · 29/01/2016 15:06

So I'm sorry - but yes - it is the same

No it isn't.

Stop minimising others experiences.

kittybiscuits · 29/01/2016 15:07

Lots of us have really shit parents. I guess people have challenged why you are so focused on blaming your father (whether he is good/bad/indifferent) when you are not taking responsibility for yourself and your problems. Upsetting posters by comparing yourself to someone affected by cancer is simply provocative, distressing and a diversion from being challenged about not taking ownership of your problems and presenting yourself as a victim.

PollyPocket100 · 29/01/2016 15:07

So sorry to hear about the difficult experiences of others* Thanks*
**
Alcoholics destroy peoples' lives and (though I understand addiction is very difficult to overcome) are choosing to do so.

Those who suffer from cancer are completely different. To accuse people who have suffered/are suffering with cancer of ruining lives is absolutely disgraceful and deeply hurtful to many of us here.

The addicts in my family ruined lives. The cancer sufferers enriched and brought lots of joy to people's' lives before they unfortunately passed away.

definitelybutter1 · 29/01/2016 15:10

My father used to try and force me to drink to normalise his lifestyle. At least my mother never tried to force me to have cancer.

captainproton · 29/01/2016 15:11

Just reading your posts has just reinforced the pact I made with myself to never get mixed up with addicts again.

I heard that cancer shit before. 'But I have no choice, it's like cancer.' And what choice do us the ones left behind have? Is that like cancer too? Do you think we don't suffer, at least you probably forget half of it, we see it all played out like a nightmare.

You may never recover but stop blaming your dad. People are allowed to not want to see you destroy yourself. We are allowed to not want to sympathise.

There is Nothing you can say to us who have lived with an alcoholic, that we haven't heard before. We are not going to suddenly sympathise. And we are under no obligation to forgive an alcoholic for the hurt they caused us.

AlwaysHopeful1 · 29/01/2016 15:11

Wow how utterly disgusting of you to compare cancer to being an alcoholic.
I'm shocked that you still stand by that.
And to be honest your tone is exactly that of a typical alcoholic.

FATEdestiny · 29/01/2016 15:12

an alcoholic treated with kindness is usually the epitome of humility and gratitude

Fucking lying bastard. The lying, the lying and dishonesty is the worse. This is such bullshit. This whole thread makes be so angry it's bought tears to my eyes.

I read those early posts and my blood boils - I hope those early posters feel bad for enabling this shit.

"By leaving you to die, I mean 'she's an alcoholic, what can you do'" would be exactly what I would do.

After 10+ years dealing with my alcoholic brother I honestly consider that his death would be better for him and the rest of the family than his continuing life as an alcoholic. It is a waste of a life. I pity him. He has no life.

Lweji · 29/01/2016 15:13

You've just removed any ounce of sympathy for you.

Alcoholism is a behavioural issue. Even if you have a compulsion for a certain behaviour, and that is a condition, you still choose to drink. Many alcoholics choose not to drink. They know they can't control it once they start. And that is the illness. They still have the choice to drink or not.
People with cancer would love not to have cancer.

I'd rather compare it with sex. Most people get the urge for sex. It's a biological drive. But most can choose to have it or not.

It seems to be that you first blamed your father, now you are shielding behind the screen of it being an illness and taking no responsibility whatsoever for your choices.

GabiSolis · 29/01/2016 15:13

AlwaysHopeful1 - that is exactly it. OP's attitude on this thread is so transparently telling.

paxillin · 29/01/2016 15:16

Never heard of a cancer patient spending his kids' money, stealing the last penny from the food kitty or using every last penny to feed the disease rather than pay the rent and then come to others to pay it.

Nor one who assaulting loved ones or who lied to all their friends and family to extract money and sympathy or one who blamed everybody else in their live for their disease.

Alcoholics? All of the above and much much more.

Lweji · 29/01/2016 15:16

i am not however going to take responsibility for being an alcoholic

You can't choose to be an alcoholic, but you can choose to have a drink.

It's clear that you have not yet accepted that you can make that choice and that these choices have led you in a self-destruction path. This is why whatever you have done before hasn't worked.

ThisFenceIsComfy · 29/01/2016 15:18

This is a very distressing thread for anyone who's had experience a relative or close friend with alcoholism. Very distressing.

Offred · 29/01/2016 15:20

You blame God for your drinking?

You think alcoholism is comparable to cancer?

Confused

I think the only thing you've said that I agreed with is 'I'm not cured'

If your doctors encouraged you to pray for salvation I think they have done you a great disservice by encouraging you to further avoid taking responsibility for your addiction and control of your recovery.

Sunnybitch · 29/01/2016 15:21

Op nobody put a gun to your head and made you drink bottle after bottle of vodka it was all you alcoholism is an illness yes, but don't you fucking dare compare it to cancer!!! The person who has that fucker has no choice you do!

smallchange · 29/01/2016 15:24

The addiction as fatal illness shite was the thing that truly did for my family alcoholic.

He had no reason to try to stop - why bother? It's an illness! He couldn't help himself! Look how much money had been spent and wasted on private rehab blah blah. Not his fault -we wouldn't have treated him so shamefully if he'd had cancer.

And yes, it's the lies. More than anything the lies. Any lie to be left in peace to drink. Any lie to acquire drink. Any lie to get money for drink.

He drowned in his own blood in the end. The alcohol wore away the lining of his throat. Fucking awful but if I'm honest? The relief was incredible. We found over 20 bottles of vodka in various hiding places when we were trying to clean the place up after he had his last hospital stay. Don't know who he was hiding it from. Probably forgot most of the places. More lies.

Offred · 29/01/2016 15:24

A family friend of mine lied about having cancer, even went as far as pulling out her own hair to pretend she was having cancer treatment, all to cover her alcoholism and to extort pity money from family, friends and her employers...

You may not have chosen to be addicted to alcohol but the choices you have made and are making are what have lead to and what maintain your continuing addiction.

You will never recover until you take responsibility for yourself.

Your father giving you a home after you drank yours away would have done fuck all apart from give you somewhere warm to drink IMO, because you are miles off recovery by the sounds of it.

Lweji · 29/01/2016 15:24

Severe alcohol withdrawal is the same as heroin withdrawal. In a clinic, the patient would be medicated and kept under observation
Yes.
But the OP can decide to stop and ask for a referral and stick to it.
The problem, as it seems here, is that she is not actually willing to stop.

PoppieD · 29/01/2016 15:25

I may get pulled up by HQ for this but I sincerly hope this is one of those purposefuly inflammatory threads as I find myself saddened, sickened and enraged by some of the OPs statements, if it is true- OP I wish that one day you will obtain the help that you require to move on.

WildeWoman · 29/01/2016 15:26

Lweji - you've just said it. "You can't choose to be an alcoholic".

Similarly, you can't choose NOT to be an alcoholic.

OP posts:
temporaryusername · 29/01/2016 15:26

I don't have a drinking issue but I do mental health issues and have often been upset when people say I have a 'choice' to do something. It is reasonable to be upset because the idea that anyone would choose to suffer like that is ridiculous, and the solution is not as simple as just making a decision. There are many things that make stopping drinking much harder for you than it would be for other people, things that are beyond your control.

But. In the end no one else can rescue you, or me, from our problems. We don't know your father or what he is like. I think you have to make that a side issue, you need to focus on yourself. Whatever recovery looks like, it will have to include letting go of some of the anger and separating yourself from whatever other people do.

There is a very strange thing for me at the heart of some mental health issues that I am guessing may also be a factor for you. It feels, in many ways truthfully, as if you have no choice. In fact you don't 'choose' in the typical meaning of the word. You fear you can't do what it takes to get better, because knowing how much you want to better, you know if it were possible you would have done it. So it can't be possible. But, the only way to ever recover is to accept and believe that you do have some control. No recovery can come without that.

So the strange thing for me if I can somehow express it, is that you have to simultaneously accept that it isn't a choice as most people understand the word, but also that you still have some the power to change it. The elements out of your control, genetic, biochemical etc may be greater or lesser at any one time, but rarely will they leave you no power. The absolute key to getting that power though is to say, ' this is my choice, maybe not in the usual sense of the word, but I can control this'. Second to second, as you said. No one else or any amount of help can do it for you, or stop you drinking if you don't accept that you have the power to do it. Even all your own efforts won't work if deep down you do not believe you can take back the power over the addiction. It will be hard, and succeeding won't mean that it should have been easy all along and you just couldn't be bothered. but you have to make that shift in thinking, and it means putting all these resentments about other people to the side. Never mind what they did or didn't do, only you can do this anyway.

Sorry this is long, and I haven't managed to say what I mean. Sorry for everyone on this thread who has suffered. OP I think your comparison to cancer was very wrong. I know you are suffering though, but please don't give up. You have tried all these things, but have you tried accepting that even with all the pressures and things outside your control, this is still something you can take responsibility for and can change? Did you ever believe you could do it, or was that missing?

I think you can do it.

IAmPissedOffWithAHeadmaster · 29/01/2016 15:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Littleelffriend · 29/01/2016 15:28

I have no sympathy for you. You are coming across as a disgusting and selfish "human". No wonder your family have washed their hands of you.

TheCrimsonPleb · 29/01/2016 15:28

Jesus love. Please don't post here again. Get to a meeting. Try again. It is possible to get sober and stay sober and it's hard work but it doesn't have to be punishing. Get help and that includes help to accept that you're father isn't who you want him to be.

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