If your father left you to die [Trigger warning for addiction/alcoholism added by MNHQ]

[WildeWoman]

By leaving you to die, I mean 'she's an alcoholic, what can you do'.

And you later found out that he may have been complicit in welfare fraud..........

Would you report him?

Similarly, you can't choose NOT to be an alcoholic.

I also said you can choose to have a drink or not. (but just ignore that part, won't you)

If you stop drinking you'll still be an alcoholic. Just a non-drinking alcoholic.

But if you think being an alcoholic gives you free license to drink whatever you want and let other people sort out your issues, then go on, and rant about them, while continuing to die. Because that is what you are doing. You are killing yourself fast.

You CAN choose to stop drinking, to take responsibility and accept help and stick with it...

I am not however going to take responsibility for being an alcoholic.

And, as others have said, there is the reason you will not get better. It is your responsibility and yours alone.

As for the comparison with cancer - that's just plain vile.

If the alcoholic can deflect attention and energy away from his/her drinking, then it's working. The reason such things are said is to get a reaction.

Addicts have no sense of themselves and they only get validation and worth when they get attention, so when you react to their nonsense, they feel validation.

You can choose to want to get better.

Do you want to get better?

Can you accept that the things you have written have deeply upset other people? Do you feel that you could apologise for that upset, no matter how accidental?

I'm not asking for an apology, btw. But can you accept that your actions can have awful consequences for other people?

How does your DD figure in all this?

Welfare fraud? Report. Not an issue.

Alcoholism. Well, some people stop drinking. They do. I don't know what might help you, as you will have tried it all. I wish you well.

So wilde you go ahead and drink and feel sorry for yourself. And tell yourself it's 'not your fault'. That you have 'a disease like cancer' (yes it's a disease, but not like cancer, how insulting!!). That you have 'no choice but to drink'. And that you have been abandoned when it's 'not your fault'. How's that working for you? I'd say not very well, or you wouldn't be so bitter nor posting about it on MN.

I instead will turn to my brother. My brother who has accepted that it is his fault. That he has a disease, but that he can triumph over it. That he does make that choice to drink. Because he has made the choice not to drink. Because everyday he acknowledges the struggle will be for the rest of his life. He continues fighting the urge to drink every moment of every day and that makes him one of the bravest men I know. He has acknowledged and apologized for the damage he has caused. We have welcomed him back with open arms and we will help him maintain his sobriety in every way we know how. He is my hero.

Your comment "and I'm still not cured" tells me that you can't really have been listening at all those meetings you attended. There is no cure. There is only acceptance that, by choosing from minute to minute, hour by hour, day by day, not to have a drink, that you will take control of your addiction. It will always be there, as will drink. You have to somehow find the strength to accept that there is only one person who can say...Enough. You won't be able to make that decision whilst holding the hatred for your father, or comparing what you have with a fatal illness.

You are nowhere near ready to accept any of this, in my opinion. I agree that some people think that you made a decision to start drinking, so you should be able just as easily to stop. That is not the case. There are many reasons people have for taking that first drink, which will eventually turn to many, but none of them are because they want to become alcoholics. It's a slow insidious process that overtakes life slowly. It is damned hard to let go, but it will only happen if you find the strength to say....Enough.

I truly hope you find that strength.

You see, WildeWoman, everyone will have sympathy with your daughter.

You wanted people to sympathise with you and the hard hand you've been dealt. I dare say lots of people on here hope you recover. They have just heard it all before.

Asking but not expecting an answer - do you want to recover?

In my experience it goes like this:

If only she hadn't done/ said what she did I wouldn't have had to go out and drink again
If he had given me money I could have pulled myself out and wouldn't be drinking again
It's your fault I was so upset and had to go for a drink again
If my kids were still here I'd be there for them and wouldn't have drunk again

There is a very simple pattern alcoholics follow in my experience. But you can do it and I hope you will. Somewhere in you is the strength. Ignore your relationship with your father, that's a red herring and I wouldn't waste energy you can ill afford to spare. The not drinking again is what counts, not whether your father will give you money or is a benefit cheat.

"Similarly, you can't choose NOT to be an alcoholic"

No, but I promise you, you can take absolute control of it.

Wilde.... I think you are extremely articulate and you express yourself so well.

As for the cancer comparison, I will tell you this:

My mother has been an alcoholic all of my life and it has blighted me from the age of 7, when i became aware, til now, at 48, when I still dread her phone calls, knowing that she has been drinking and that I will have abuse hurled at me. I go months of no contact but it makes no difference.

I WISH she had cancer instead. At least she would have a 'proper disease' that is TREATED properly by the SHEER FORCE of the medical profession making her seek treatment. At least then, she would have a % chance of recovery.

The fact is, she has no chance of recovery. She just won't stop.

Cancer at least would give her a chance.

(Apologies to people with cancer or with relatives with cancer. My point is that my mother is helpless to help herself and I hope that you will see my distinction. She didn't choose this for herself either)

OP. Please don't compare yourself with a cancer patient. They didn't choose cancer, you choose to drink.

It's easy to call a behaviour an illness as then it removes alk responsibility from yourself to own up and take control. Alcoholism is a choice! Just like any addiction. If it wasn't, why do many addicts recover? Saying you didn't choose to be 1 is stupid! Yes you might not want the side effects but your own words dictate you look forward to doing it! Hence the yay it's weekend.

We all get bored, miserable and have problems. Addicts just find unhealthy ways to mask the crap side of life!!

SpoiltMardyCow my alcoholic dad was so much less damaging than many on here, but I still believe that cancer is easier on the family of the sufferer.

What non-alcoholics don't realise is that alcoholics CANNOT stop.

So telling them to stop will not work. I know a lovely professional girl who won young Vogue writer of the year....didnt' matter. She became an alcoholic, had no money, lived off the streets and would do ANYTHING to get alcohol....you would be shocked what a person would do to get booze.

If it was at all easy for them to stop, they would.

It's almost like telling your body to stop the cancer from growing. I know it sounds crazy but it's just the way it is.

Alcoholics CAN stop. Many do. At least for the most part of their lives.
It's possible.

What won't work is to tell them to stop. They must choose to do it. Which is why it can't be blamed on the OP's father for not supporting her. She is the one who must reach out for support and turn her life around.

Definitelybutter - how can you say that? Don't you think it's heartbreaking to see someone kill themselves with alcohol over something you think they CAN stop!?

Imagine you saying to your father, dying of cancer, "Dad, just stop the cancer from spreading, and we'll all be ok and you will be better and our family will be ok."

Of course he can't do that.

If an alcoholic can't stop, there is nothing you can do to help them.

If I could choose between alcoholism or cancer for my mother, I would choose cancer every time. At least she'd have a chance of recovery and a field of doctors behind her.

What non-alcoholics don't realise is that alcoholics CANNOT stop

Explain the existence of recovering alcoholoics

It is difficult for an addict to stop but of course they can stop.

I believe an alcoholic will always be an alcoholic; some are drunk and some are sober.

Alcoholics that have not chosen to stop drinking (and yes, again choosing to stop is very difficult) will actively damage people around them.

Alcoholics that are sober will always have to manage their addiction but they are the ones who have the power to stay sober. No-one else.

SpoiltMardyCow I think I get that. I think, from the outside, that the alcoholic's compulsion is so overwhelming that it almost impossible to get past. That the fall out and damage to people around fade into a grey background.

I do think, there but for the Grace of God go I.

Good posts, temporaryusername and Spoilt.

I hope all the vented anger, despair & disgust on this thread has made PPs feel better. It won't have helped Wilde any, except perhaps to entrench the self-loathing and avoidance that little bit deeper.

There's a reason the first AA step is to admit that we are powerless/helpless. Here's an alcoholic admitting it, and everyone roars "No, you're not! You useless wimp!" Counter denial with denial if you like. It won't get anyone anywhere, just reinforce the frustration on both sides.

And there's a reason alcoholism's called an illness (not a disease, incidentally, unless you're trying to claim off an American insurance policy.) Comparisons with physical illnesses are bound to distress people, but the comparisons are there.

It's more like a mental illness ... those of us with mental illnesses still struggle to get people to accept comparisons with physical illness: there's a broad empathy gap whichever way you look at it.

I have both mental & physical conditions that I'm probably stuck with for life. All I can do is manage them. Temporary outlined the weird thought gymnastics required to pull this off: a combination of passive acceptance and conscious motivation. Addiction recovery also requires this: hence the first step.

SpoiltMardyCow sorry, I didn't mean to upset you. Watching my mother dying of cancer was easier than watching my father die of drink. I didn't know whether he could or couldn't stop. I just knew that he wouldn't.

I suppose because my father was always a drinker I just accepted that he would never stop. There was a whole raft of other stuff, and healthcare professionals trying to get me to tell my father that this was needed or that was needed, but I knew there was nothing I could say that would make a difference.

If he had been able to speak at the end he would have probably blamed me, or my mother or some other factor. More likely he would have been charming and lovely but completely in denial.

I had an awful relationship with my mother. I did my duty when she had cancer, but I had detached a long time before, so it was never going to be so immediate. However it was a lot shorter period and a lot less damaging compared to the damage father did, without thinking, throughout my life.