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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

If your father left you to die [Trigger warning for addiction/alcoholism added by MNHQ]

522 replies

WildeWoman · 29/01/2016 01:05

By leaving you to die, I mean 'she's an alcoholic, what can you do'.

And you later found out that he may have been complicit in welfare fraud..........

Would you report him?

OP posts:
Lweji · 29/01/2016 14:07

A bit of a cross post.
Documents can be recovered and somehow you must have gone through a destructive process to put you in the position you found yourself in. Your father didn't force you to drink.

MajesticSeaFlapFlap · 29/01/2016 14:08

Can I just say, an alcoholic treated with kindness is usually the epitome of humility and gratitude

Really? Usually they leap on the kindness, take advantage and fuck up more things for anyone around them

I'm glad your recovery is going well but perhaps realise yours is a one-sided foggy view

Littleelffriend · 29/01/2016 14:09

Op, your life while homeless obviously was horrible. But YOU made the decision to drink, therefore your homelessness wasn't your family's fault, it was yours. I am not saying that anyone "deserves" to be homeless, I am saying that you need to accept responsibility.
You say that your father refused you money which would have enabled you to attend a job interview-I would be willing to bet that he had given you money on umpteen other occasions, and I would be willing to bet that you lied about what it was for and spent it on alcohol. I am willing to bet this because all addicts, however "nice" they are, are liars. I would also be willing to bet that you have no memory of most of the times that you asked for or were given help. And even if this isn't the case, why should your father give you, as an adult, money? His financial responsibility to you ended when you became an adult. You sound like a spoiled child. And sharing alcohol and tobacco with other alcoholics is hardly the epitome of human kindness. Stop looking to others to help you, and help yourself. You hate your father? Go no contact. It sounds like it would do you both good.

WildeWoman · 29/01/2016 14:09

Paxillin - when I sat on the park bench, can you tell me that I was in denial as to what landed me there?

Alcohol! There is no doubt about that. No fucking doubt in my head whatsoever. But as much as the fella who has fallen down a well walking in the dark, having left his home without a torch, knowing that, doesn't fucking help him to get out of the well.

As for being ruthless? Eh no. Donald Trump is ruthless. I'm far from ruthless. Flighty? Yes. Unreliable? 100% guaranteed. Volatile? Yes. Unpredictable? Yes. Ruthless? NO.

You have some image in your head of marauding maniac lunatic alcoholics raping and pillaging and robbing and stealing. You couldn't get an honest word out of their mouths.

We're not really like that.
Honestly. Wink

OP posts:
Dragonsdaughter · 29/01/2016 14:12

You are articulate and intelligent - you use this to justify instead of take responsablity. Yes its an ilness and some people are more suciptible genetically and psychologically than other - that is a very tough cross to carry but it is still somthing that at the end rests in each decision you make. How is your farther to know that the 2 days rent is just not for drink, how many times have you had the chance of a job and blown it? How was your paper work lost ? How did you become homeless and almost die ? What ever the circumstances were do you really think 2 nights rent would have 'saved you' - because in reality if you are homless and nearly dying you need rehab not a few night rent and a job.

fastdaytears · 29/01/2016 14:13

No raping or pillaging but a lot of lying and a lot of manipulation. Living with that is incredibly difficult.

deste · 29/01/2016 14:15

Why are you blaming your father for a choice you made?

WildeWoman · 29/01/2016 14:16

If I was dishonest, would I have admitted on here, to all and sundry, most of whom are intent on giving the token alco a piece of their minds, that I was not recovering?

My father never gave me money. Because I had always worked. The only contact I ever had with him would be an occasional phone-call, where I would tell him how much I earned. If it suits you to tell me yourself that I must forget the few pound millions he has given me, then knock yourself out. I'm clearly a dishonest alcoholic - so there's not much point in me trying to convince you otherwise!

OP posts:
paxillin · 29/01/2016 14:16

You have some image in your head of marauding maniac lunatic alcoholics raping and pillaging and robbing and stealing. I do not. I don't know you of course, but I do know other alcoholics. I know they can be absolutely ruthless when it comes to getting money for drink, even from those who love them. I know how alcoholics can disregard their own and everybody else's safety and well-being, this includes their own children.

By denial I don't mean denial of alcoholism being the cause of the misery, but the never ending attempt to apportion blame for either the fallout or the drinking itself. Alcoholics can sometimes convince themselves they drink because of stress, a baby, a partner's miscarriage... I have never heard an alcoholic not in recovery say "I would drink whatever" yet this is what invariably happens.

IAmPissedOffWithAHeadmaster · 29/01/2016 14:18

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Dragonsdaughter · 29/01/2016 14:19

And in honesty you may not be an abusive punchy drunk but the pissy, bitter, entitled and emotionalive abusive model is just a damaging to those around them.

WildeWoman · 29/01/2016 14:19

Deste

  1. I did not make a choice. I did not wake up one morning and say to myself 'You know what Wildewoman? How's about we become an auld alcoholic today?'.
  1. Since I have not made a choice, I can't be blaming my father.
OP posts:
DuckDuckMoose · 29/01/2016 14:19

Speaking for myself I don't have that image in my head.

I do have the image of the constant lies, broken promises and the wholesale disregard for anyone else's wellbeing when it comes between and addict and their addiction in my mind though.

I don't think any addict can honestly see their own behaviour clearly. I wish you well for the future and hope you can kick the addiction but I'm going to bow out of this thread now.

IAmPissedOffWithAHeadmaster · 29/01/2016 14:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WildeWoman · 29/01/2016 14:21

Look - I'm prepared to take a certain level of abuse, but please stop accusing me of stuff without some basis in fact knowledge of me

OP posts:
definitelybutter1 · 29/01/2016 14:21

My father never rampaged or pillaged.

The trail of destruction left by his determination to put drink first was horrific. And all the damage was done with a charming smile.

Alcoholics lie. They lie to other people to get drink and they lie to themselves. I don't know if I could have left my father to die. I do know that I got off very lightly but my life would have been infinitely better if he had never touched a drop.

There are alcoholics in recovery on here that would not say anything different.

definitelybutter1 · 29/01/2016 14:22

btw my father repeatedly abandoned me when it came to choosing between helping me and drink. Drink always, always won.

Dragonsdaughter · 29/01/2016 14:24

The truth is not abuse. I hope you find some peace.

fastdaytears · 29/01/2016 14:30

You have not been abused on this thread.

AnchorDownDeepBreath · 29/01/2016 14:32

Have you already sent that message? Because, although it may have felt good to write, you shouldn't send it. For a start, it suggests that you have malicious intent and therefore your report about his welfare claim could be malicious.

Secondly, you will never convince your father that he made the wrong decision giving up on you if you are still drinking. You are reinforcing what he did. He thought you were too far gone and having a home wouldn't save you, you have a home and you're still drinking.

Finally, there is a moment when you're fighting addiction that you realise that by calling it an addiction, you are glamorising it. You may well know that alcohol has caused all the damage to you and your life. You might not want to drink it. You are, though. That's not because you're an alcoholic. You're an alcoholic because you keep returning to alcohol. It's an important distinction and until you recognise it, there's no path. It will be a fight and it will be difficult but if you want to stop drinking, spend every minute thinking of why you won't do it. Don't buy it. When you do buy it (and you will, sometimes, we all have moments of weakness) throw it away or spoil it. When you fall off the bandwagon, get back on.

Then you can write a coherent, honest letter, when you've been clean for 6 months and you can show your father that he was wrong and you could be saved.

captainproton · 29/01/2016 14:32

Forgive us who have watched an alcoholic die, but just exactly when and why did you start drinking? We are not born with the knowledge of what being drunk feels like you had to have started somehow.

And how did you end up homeless?

If your brother needed to distance himself from you then why? What had your alcoholic self done for him to do that?

I am a child of a dead alcoholic and I've already said I am not prepared to put myself through that hell again. If any of my children turned to drink I think I would have to step back and support the others and hope to god they came out the other side ok.

GarlicBake · 29/01/2016 14:35

You can decide to stop it.

Severe alcohol withdrawal is the same as heroin withdrawal. In a clinic, the patient would be medicated and kept under observation for the first several days as their system can go into shock, which can kill. After that, they need continuous support as their neurological symptoms will persist and they have to learn to handle discomfort without seeking instant relief. That's the hard part. The actual stopping can be literally life-threatening.

you can apply for council accommodation and benefits. There are shelters.

Incredibly hard to secure either these days. The benchmark for local authorities now is whether you "could survive on the streets" (I have personal experience!) and being an addict is not considered enough to render you vulnerable.

Wilde has spoken of living in a homeless community - I assume this was a shelter. They are usually time-limited, sometimes to as little as 12 hours. There's no security.

an alcoholic treated with kindness is usually the epitome of humility and gratitude

Only while they're assured of sufficient alcohol to put them to sleep and only during the early part of the process, while their frontal lobes are shutting down. As you've said, Wilde, nasty people get nastier during this phase and sweet people get sweeter. This is because they're losing their social filters and their basic emotions are getting straight through without moderation or balance. They're also having miniature blackouts by this point, so their memories how they really behaved will be impaired. You can never know exactly how you were, unless someone videos it and you're sober when you watch it back (which I'm guessing you never are!)

The safest way to continue drinking is to slow it right down. Drink a whole glass of water - a pint or at least a long glass - between each drink. You'll still get drunk, it'll just cost less and inflict less damage on your poor old brain. Try safe distraction techniques to offset the twitchiness about drinking slowly :)

IAmPissedOffWithAHeadmaster · 29/01/2016 14:36

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WildeWoman · 29/01/2016 14:36

People lie. Every day I hear lies and I read lies. Not from alcoholics.

The closest I have come to lying has been 'I'm grand! Not a bother on me!' *As I fall on my arse.

I have however, in the early days of addiction, lied to myself. Or deluded myself I suppose.

Monday - must drink. Sure how could you get through a Monday, without something to look forward to.
Tuesday - tough day at work. Must drink.
Wednesday - mid-week. A drink is called for!
Thursday - I'm bored. DRINK!
Friday - Woohoo - now I can blend in with the 'normals'. PARTAYYYYY
Saturday - As above
Sunday - Jaysis - give me a drink.

Nowadays - I don't bother deluding myself.

I take responsibility for my actions. I have behaved utterly stupidly with drink on me. In fact, I have (God forgive me) ARGUED with drink on me. I am certainly less likely to behave stupidly with no drink. But, I am equally as likely to argue when sober.

I am not however going to take responsibility for being an alcoholic. I've studied this fucking bastard illness for long enough and I have lived it for long enough to know that I have about as much of a chance of not picking up a drink as a toddler has of not swiping a piece of chocolate.

And I sure as hell am not going to become the verbal punch-bag for every person on here who has 'suffered at the hands of an alco'.

Does the spouse of a cancer patient suffer? Does the mother suffer? Do the children suffer?

I know you are all going to come back to 'the choice'. Please don't. As this is as much as I am going to engage with that 'argument'.

OP posts:
IAmPissedOffWithAHeadmaster · 29/01/2016 14:38

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