Why would anyone become the OW?

[StillAgainstTheWind]

I am mystified as to why any woman would knowingly become the OW.

My friend's marriage was destroyed by her DH's affair last year. Why would any woman choose to sleep with a married man especially one with children?

Statiscally I imagine those affairs that end in a happy, faithful marriage between the affair partners are a tiny minority.

Getting a shag from a single bloke isn't fucking difficult. If a woman is just after sex there's plenty of options other than a married man.

And if it's the soulmates bullshit, well it takes a lot of fucking steps to get to the point of feeling that way.

The reality for most is, I would guess, a snatched hour or two of furtive fucking. Lots of time waiting around for a call or text. Being let down at the last minute.

Why would anyone settle for so little? You hear of women who wait years for the man to leave and he never does. Their whole life on hold waiting for an event that doesn't happen.

How is it justified by OW morally. The man is the one who made the vows I guess?

My friend's husband was a knob anyway and was thinking with his dick. But he didn't make the OW any promises and months later I can't see the appeal for her.

So your excuse Stumbly is ignorance. If you don't know, you don't care. You proved my point - you don't give a shit. Guess at least your honest but so glad I'm not you.

I still don't understand why an OW would be attracted to a cheater though. Absolutely nothing to do with my own experience/past but if a married man approached me, whether he had children or not, whether I knew his wife/kids or not, I would be nothing short of repulsed and my only thoughts would be sleeze-bag, pathetic, complete and utter joke, wanker, etc just because he had shown that he is capable of treating his wife/family like that and I would be very clear. I wouldn't need to hear any excuses/lies/the cheaters script. Urgggh!

So what is it about the OW who think that 'IT' is some kind of catch and are attracted to THIS! (Obviously not talking about the OW who never knew).

But that would be the same for an OM surely? But they don't see OW as slappers/whores, etc. doesn't bother them if they are meeting them for a quick shag before school pick up (ie bad mum too). They don't worry that their OW will cheat on them too.

I'm sorry but I think it's wrong that we don't focus on cheaters as a whole. Are men all deemed to be so pathetic that they can only take orders from their cock?

Binders...nothing in my post is meant to be an 'excuse'. Just facts. I think I pretty much said that I didn't give a shit didn't I?

I don't think I've pussyfooted around that only tried to explain my thinking process for not giving a shit.

In my particular case the MM definitely didn't give a shit. There was no guilt on his side at all. I generally think more like a man (the gender stereotyped version anyway)...a lot of people have commented on this over the years...so I suspect a lot of MM and OM compartmentalise and don't give a shit either until they're found out and it actually impacts on their lives.

Probably not what people want to hear and just IMO obviously.

"The reason I don't think it's that unusual (like 50% of the population?) is that no-one would buy non-fair trade items or shop in places that have been proven to use child labour if that was the case...and lots of people do."

There is a difference between choosing not to do something that would benefit a stranger, and choosing to DO something that would harm them directly. And of course if you are struggling financially you might go for the cheaper option and not buy FT - I don't think anyone is obliged to enter an affair because they can't afford not to.

BTW I don't disagree that a lot of people don't care that much about strangers - I suspect when push comes to shove I would care more for myself and those close to me - but that doesn't mean I would choose to do something hurtful.

....and why was I attracted to my MM?

I had known him for 8 years...he was exactly my type physically, ticked every box in terms of intelligent, driven, alpha male type.

Mostly it was because we were so very similar. Emily Bronte said "He's more myself than I am. Whatever our souls are made of, his and mine are the same thing".

That's the best explanation of how I felt about the MM. We understood each other in a way that we both acknowledged no-one ever had or possibly will.

But yes...at the back of my mind I knew I wouldn't be able to trust him. At first I think I was swept up in the whole thing and compared it to my Mum's relationship where she was (unknowingly) the OW and my stepfather left his wife and they've been together for 25 years now.

However after a few months when I was a little less swept up and had mulled it over I decided that the fact that we're both so similar and don't feel guilt about anything could mean it could be a pretty big disaster for both of us to really be together so I ended it, blocked him and told him not to contact me again.

So I'm not sure how other OW explain this to themselves.

This was all quite a few years ago and I would not be with another MM again as I don't like playing 'supporting actress'. Also because I prefer to be with someone like DP who is so lovely that he makes me a better person.

Strawberry, you're sort of conflating two separate things (if I'm reading you right).

I take it as read that the standards & morals of those who knowingly cheat (and are knowingly involved in an ongoing relationship with a cheat) are rock bottom, regardless of what sex they are.

I would expect that the person doing the cheating should feel guilt and I would also expect the affair partner to feel guilt for what they are doing.

It's not a sex/gender thing imo, it's a 'person who cheats' thing. They are proven liars and deceivers, why would they feel guilt? Maybe they did at one point initially, but they just become immune to the guilt feelings because they justify their actions to themselves.

Stumbly, my sister is very much how you described yourself. To her friends & family she is probably the most thoughtful and caring person I know, she is fiercely loyal and would fight to the end for any one of us - she is the first person I would want on my side in a crisis.
She is not like that about people who aren't friends or family - she feels sympathy but not empathy to the extent that I do.
Like you, she would help someone she doesn't know if she was there when they needed it and she would go out of her way to help, but if she has no actual connection with someone then they don't really matter to her at all.
She is an amazing person, and because I know how lovely she is, I never fail to be shocked by how she can just cut off feelings like she does.
(Hope that makes sense!).

MrsC, I am hugely lucky that my ex is as he is - I know what you meant!
I think it's because he is a good man in many respects (apart from the cheating, lying and deceit!), and he has always been a very equal partner and parent. I worked away a lot over the years, so he was often the primary parent and has never shirked his responsibilities towards the kids.
I don't want to be married to him anymore, I hate what he's done and I will always be angry & bitter about the waste of it all - but I still hold out hope that he will be honest and straight with us from now on.
(I also think it won't be long until he is cheating on OW, in fact I suspect he may be already - and I am better off out of it all).

The thing is all OW are not the same. I have a few in my circle of friends, just as I have friends who have been cheated on. Of those I know one was bored and wanted excitement, she certainly never felt guilt because she felt she deserved some fun. Another wanted an out to a unhappy marriage, she felt some guilt. And the other shags MM (plural) on a regular basis, has done for years and thinks nothing of it. Their attitude to it all is different to each other and to mine too. So you just can't assume they are all uncaring skanks.

I don't think a good person would become immune to the guilt. They might try and live with it but it would always be there. So I think the ones who don't feel guilt are those who compartmentalise and think more like a man about it all.

Bunny...makes sense and yes, I would say your sister sounds very like me. I'm not sure there's anything I can do about it either, it feels very ingrained and not something I can just talk myself out of or 'choose'.

I would say though that being an 'OW' doesn't mean you have no morals. It just means your morals about that specific point. I believe my morals in all other circumstances are either the same as, or sometimes higher than, the average population. I'm known for my integrity in most other areas of my life it's only this particular issue. Being an OW doesn't mean I would cheat on someone myself, I rarely lie (in fact all my friends and family knew about MM, I did not lie even then), etc.

I've stayed off this thread because I know how it ends up and it's drifted very far off the OP.

I wanted to post in support of Stumbly really; she's taken a lot of crap and over-generalisation from a lot of posters here who really don't have (or, in their own words, want to have), the information and knowledge of what Stumbly is saying.

Bunny's depiction of her sister's thoughts and feelings is very easy for me to relate to as well.

I'm absolutely shocked at the smugness and blinkered thinking on this thread, of posters lashing out and of feigning unselfishness on their own part. You only have to read Mumsnet to see just how selfish and insular people generally are. They may have what they perceive is unselfishness towards their families BUT it comes at a huge cost to everybody else for whom they wouldn't give two hoots. "Them and theirs, them and theirs", chanted like a mantra.

There is of course a common type of OW that I've seen many times. She is young and/or naive.
She is courted by an older MM - often her boss or a senior manager, or sometimes even a teacher/college lecturer. He is a serial player and she believes everything he tells her about his 'dead' marriage. She always ends up heartbroken - he will string her along until it is no longer convenient/he thinks his wife will find out and then drops her & goes cold on her. Many of my friends have been this OW, but learned from the experience & wouldn't do it again. I don't really blame this type of OW, I just feel sorry for her as a victim of a predator.

There are lots of reasons why a woman (or man) takes up with someone who is married and I don't see that there is any common element at all. Anyone who thinks they are in any way effectively profiling and OW/OM are really deluding themselves; these are people. Human beings... not some kind of lab experiment.

That's the type most OW I have ever met are, dimots, the flattered and naive junior at work/ student at college. The power imbalance between MM and OW is such that she cannot go public, which is precisely why MM goes for her rather than trying it on with a professional equal who could after all spill the beans when she realises she was a convenient extra sex partner and no more.

dimots that's exactly the kind of OW I was. I've grown up to be an intelligent and strong minded woman, but when I was 16 I was a kid and a naive kid at that. I hadn't had any other sexual relationships. I would go as far as to say there's a type of MM, normally in a senior work role, who probably only does the job to pick these girls up.

Oh and his wife absolutely vilified me when she found out and was adamant that I was a whore . Her thirty something husband was a victim of my man eating ways though.

I have no idea about young/naive OW's. I do know that "my" OW is significantly older than my ex-h and predatory to the extreme. She treats me as if I am the OW. It's all very odd really, her insecurity is amazing -and amusing. Indeed Bunny, he has already cheated on her, have that from two very independent sources. I do think some people just can't stop themselves.

Jesus Christ, FellOut, that is appalling. That is unbelievably terrible and must have been scarring for you. Big hugs. What an absolute prick and barely not criminal in his case. The wife only sounds marginally better. Who the hell would blame a 16-year-old?!?! My eldest DD is 13, and the thought of her going through that at 16 makes me physically ill. What is wrong with her?

stumbly, thanks for coming back on the thread. I actually admire your honesty, even if I can't totally put myself in that mindset. My husband had two affairs, one (a two-night stand) with someone I suspect felt a lot like you, and the other (longer) falling well within the stereotype above (much younger-coworker, my husband in charge). I have to say, I don't actually hate either of them, and have some sympathy with the younger one. If I wasn't actively hurt by it, I would quite feel sorry for her. She really was taken as a mug, and I don't know if she actually feels guilty, but whatever she had coming to her in karma, I think she probably got it. I don't need to pile on.

But it is interesting to hear your mindset, because despite the protestations that there is no common thread with OW, I do think they tend (generalising of course) to fall into the two camps that have come out on this thread and another one running on Mumsnet right now: The first is the young and naive OW with older, usually more powerful, older guy and the second is with OW who do lack some form of empathy for the wife/children involved. I guess the thing I will struggle with until my dying day is that I can (sort of) get why someone doesn't care about blowing up my life, but what about when there are children involved? They really are totally innocent, and shouldn't we all protect the innocent and vulnerable? I think it's something I just don't think I'll ever understand.

I don't fall into either of those camps. I'm definitely not young. And I feel a huge amount of guilt and sorrow.

I think it's horrific how some OW behave but not all of them are like that.

Thanks dontknow. She was my teacher as well (fucked up!) so that made it all very sinister when you think about it. They had each known me since I was 11 and yet she blamed me absolutely and completely for persuing and seducing her husband.

Of course that's not to take away from how awful it is to have your partner have an affair and how much you must hate the OW to an extent. I feel very sorry for the brave women on this thread who've been through so much- and who I'm sure wouldn't blame a child for something their husband did, even in anger.

Thanks, Strawberrry. I wonder if you would agree there is a third category, the OW that is just generally damaged or vulnerable? Because, really, would anyone have an affair that didn't fall into one of those (now) 3 categories? Even if someone says it was of the true love, stars aligned narrative, surely they still have to fall into one of the categories, because otherwise you just don't do it. Just curious.

Also, speaking personally, when I hear you say you felt a huge amount of guilt and sorrow, that makes a big difference to me. Possibly pathetic on my part, but true.

FellOut, I really, really hope both of them lost their jobs. Unbelievable.

Not sure what category this is, but I have known people who had affairs simply because they wanted sex, and took the familiar 'not my fault if someone else chooses to break their promises' way of thinking. I'll bet they can feel sympathy and empathy, they just don't see themselves as doing anything wrong or having personal responsibility for it.

dontknow they didn't. He did initially and was jobless for about a year. She moved schools and became an assistant head and got him some work as a substitute at her school. He now works there full time and is an assistant head himself now . It would be funny if it wasn't so fucking terrible. I've thought many times over the years of complaining to someone, somewhere but when it all first happened over ten years ago I went to the police and they were very dismissive. I also contacted the NUT but they said there was very little that could be done. For my own sanity I had to let it go. However, I like to think he's still looking over his shoulder. Me and DH are both teachers ourselves- no connection, DH is 20 odd years younger than MM. He teaches a different subject but in a catholic school that's attached to the same diosis and he bumped into MM at a conference thing once. DH clocked his badge and says "oh, I know your name! I think you know my wife, FellOut MarriedName." MM looks blank and DH says, "you'd probably remember her as FellOut MaidenName though." Apparently MM went ashen and mumbled something about giving me his regards. DH said he wanted to punch him in the face there and then. But it gives me some satisfaction to know he will always wonder a bit if I'm going to try and shop him I guess.

I digress though, I think I agree with your point that OW in general- whatever category they fall into- are probably operating not at full capacity emotionally whether that be through age, naïveté, previous emotional damage etc. It's not a "normal" thing to do. I agree with that.

I was the cheated on partner. Six years on I honestly feel no anger towards the OW at all. I do feel some anger towards ExP but ultimately I think that I have had a much better time of it than other people on this thread because a) my son was not his so I was eventually able to cut off contact, b) I realised pretty quickly that I was lucky not to have wasted more of my life with him, and c) their affair only lasted a few weeks before he left. I think what really hurt was discovering that he had been emotionally unfaithful for years before that (think Internet chatsites, inappropriate messaging with female friends etc).

I think she was prepared to be the OW for a short time because they genuinely had a connection. They are now married (despite him telling me that he didn't believe in marriage). She knew me, so I don't think she was fed many lies about our relationship - she just took the decision that they were a better match than we were. I can't really feel very angry about that in hindsight, though for a long time I couldn't bear to be in the same room as her. It was bad behaviour, of course, but mainly because she knew me and pretended to be nice to me while it was all going on.

As painful as it is to admit, I do just think he met somebody who he thought he could love more than me at a time when he was still in a relationship with me. I wish he had left me first, but honestly I think I would have felt just as much pain at that as I did knowing that there was an overlap period when he was with somebody else. It also massively helps that he wasn't sleeping with me for those few weeks.

So I do agree with the posters who are saying that there are degrees of bad behaviour. I had nothing like the experience that other people have had, and as a result I don't have the same attitude towards OW.

I have posted about this on another thread, but I am now seeing somebody who is separated (yes - I know that he is genuinely separated before you ask!) and at times that feels very much like being an OW. I find it difficult that he can't be open with all of his friends about me yet. It might be easier to wait for the divorce, but I am not prepared to risk losing somebody who I love just because his life is messier than I would like it to be. So I have some sympathy with OW who are told that the marriage is over and that they just need to wait a short time until it will all be out in the open. It may be a line in some (most?) cases, but men can be very convincing.