How to discipline and salvage some kind of relationship with DD.

[Givemestrength100]

DD 14 has been quite challenging for about 18 months. I am a single parent and find myself crying (pathetic I know and no not infront of her) due to her behaviour. She is so rude and abrupt 24/7 , she is constantly ready to jump down my throat and it doesn't take much. She is on her phone pretty much 24/7 comes down to eat then vanishes again. I just feel she has completely disconnected with me she doesn't even look at me and never asks how I am or engages in conversation with me. She is also very difficult at school and sees camhs regularly. She is just so selfish and rude I feel like I'm walking on eggshells around her and there is a major atmosphere between us, I try and chat but either get no reply or an angry one word. I just attempted to have a rational conversation with her about the amount of time she spends on her phone and got back "you know nothing about nothing shut up will you" so I respond that if she can't speak to me with respect she can hand her phone over (contract I pay for) she just said "I'm not handing it over if you take it I'll run away" then stormed off on the phone seeking more negative attention telling everyone how awful I am. I have tried to pick my battles etc but she is in battle mode 24/7 so simply asking how she is resorts in "you always ask me that for gods sake".
Not sure where the hell I went wrong but something needs to change.

[Givemestrength100]

what am I trying to deflect?!

[BoboChic]

That your DD is suffering, and angry with you.

[Givemestrength100]

I kind of gathered she was angry with me which is why I started the thread and have said several times she is angry with me, I'm not deflecting that. Have your teenagers never been angry with you? Taken other life upsets out on you? I have not made her suffer or added to her suffering I've only ever tried to ease it. I can't let things escalate to a point where there is no discipline at all based on the fact she has suffered in life at times.

[BoboChic]

Unfortunately, as mothers, if our DC are suffering in a general way, they do rather tend to think it's our fault for bringing them into the world. As parents we give birth and we design our DC's lives and we are largely responsible for their successes and failures.

[Griffney]

Bobochic, you sound weird.

[Mlb123]

Still bob

[VimFuego101]

BoboChic, I don't think you're helping here. The OP was posting for practical advice, not to hear an amateur psychologist regurgitate a textbook.

[BoboChic]

I shall leave the thread now because I've given all the advice I can. All I want to do is ensure the OP doesn't think that enforcing rules on a child who is suffering an intolerable situation is going to make things better.

[EmmanuelleMumsnet]

We've had a couple of reports about this thread and just thought we would pop on with a reminder that Mumsnet is about making parents' lives easier.

We all know how hard this parenting business can be, and if there's one thing we could all do with, it's moral support.

Hope you can find some helpful suggestions and support here OP .

[Mlb123]

Bobo stop droning on with your pop psychology. You sound ridiculous, condescending and rather rude about the op parenting. Even saying when the bond isnt super strong then you can't use punishments. Fucking stupid as the alternative is to just let them do as they please. That will really strengthen the relationship.

I am sure you must think you are coming across as really insightful and super intelligent, but you just sound like an arrogant, conceited, judgemental fool. Nobody is even agreeing with much of what you say, but still you carry on 'advising' the op and each post is getting more and more personal and more ridiculous. Just give up already!

[Mlb123]

Suffering an intolerable situation. More nonsense. What is the op doing that is so utterly intolerable to the daughter. Asking her to have respect and do as she is told isn't evil you friggin idiot. Please do leave the thread as you are adding nothing worthwhile and are embarrasing yourself lmfao!

[Givemestrength100]

You have given no advice just patronise bye.

Thanks for all the helpful advice everyone xxxx

[ConkersDontScareSpiders]

I think you sound amazing op actually.my dd is 10 and already extremely hormonal and stroppy.she is quite hard and disruptive to live with at times even at this early age so I've no idea how to cope with what might be coming.in fact after an hour of horrendous door slamming from her last night I've contacted a family therapist today as it can't go on.we have treated her in the exact same way as dd2 who is very easy going.it has become quite hard for me to treat them equally when one is constantly yelling and storming off and the other is nice as nine pence.and that in itself is becoming unhealthy.I don't think her behaviour is down to me (well sometimes it probably is-no one is perfect) and I don't think your dd's behaviour is down to you from what you've said.
If you were 'cruel' you wouldn't be concerned or asking for advice...
I too went totally off the rails between 14 and 17.i got in with a boy who I was obsessed with-I now realise it was a mixture of low self esteem and attention seeking-my parents both worked a lot, and were quite reserved and judgey-they just didn't get me at all.fortunatelyI didn't act up at school and despite some fairly traumatic stuff with said boy eventually grew up and rid self of him and in the end I came back to myself bit by bit.relationship with parents still isn't great-in their view they gave me everything (which I can't argue with in practical terms or in terms of stability and boundaries etc) but in my view what was lacking was the empathy.
Just keep giving her the love you are doing and the positive attention, but do stick to your guns on your house rules-calmly if possible.
Hang in there kid...

[liletsthepink]

Op, I agree with the pp who mentioned getting some counselling for yourself and also some assertiveness training. Your DD needs some tough love from you otherwise she will end up as a dysfunctional adult instead of a bratty teen.

Is there anyone else in the family or a friend that your DD respects and would listen to? Sometimes a grandparent can be useful to talk to an errant teen!

My DCs are adults now but the teen years were definitely the hardest so you have my sympathies. Good luck, Op.

[Clarella]

Please look into love bombing as a strategy.

[IoraRua]

I think Bobos comments are utterly ridiculous OP. I have taught children with emotional and behavioural issues, we certainly don't coddle them and drop all rules - it made them worse. Clear expectations, clear routines and clear rewards and punishments/lack of privileges worked. And we were very succesful, they made progress and felt safe.

I think you are doing a fantastic job.

[Dragongirl10]

Hi Giveme,

just wondered how you were doing.....l hope you have identified some helpful ideas that resonate with you.

l suspect you are in for a bit of a roller coaster with DD, as you say you have always been super supportive and sometimes given in too much.....can l just say she may say she hates you and other hurtful things over the coming weeks as you put firm boundaries into place....please, please do not take this on board, let it roll over you as l sure it will pass and she will respect you in the long run.

Be reasured being a strong firm calm parent does not damage your relationship, long term it will be strengthened. Inconsistancy, and trying to be her best friend will not help though.

All my friends who had really strict but fair parents, growing up now have fabulous relationships with them, mine included, my parents uncompromising attitude ( and it really was) never made me not love them, in fact they are now in their 80s and we have so much fun together.

Hope you are feeling positive and making some headway with DD.

[Givemestrength100]

Thank you. I am not going to initially remove the phone but have had a conversation with her about what I expect ie not perfection but manners and respect. I have told her she will get one warning to go and cool off and calm then her phone will be removed initially only for 1 hour but if she is persistent in her attitude it will be extended. I have also told her as I'm paying the phone plus £15 a week pocket money she needs to wash up after dinner and keep her room in a reasonable state. She said "for gods sake I'm leaving" skulked off for a couple of hours then returned being quite pleasant. She has washed up whilst rolling eyes and loudly but no screaming and has had a couple of pleasant chats with me without biting my head off. Long may it last but I know I'm in for a bumpy ride , weekends and holidays are tricky as she likes to be friends with the older cool kids then gets cross when she has different rules about curfews and the fact I won't supply her with alcohol .

She is very urrmmm fiesty and I need to learn to switch off but she can be so persistent it's hard to remain patient as she follows and won't walk off , then threatens to punch walls and says "your making me really angry now this will be your fault" I definetly don't give in to that but she still gives it her best shot. She was involved in an altercation at school- Long story but an older girl had told one of DDs friends to kill themselves and was spreading rumours- all boils down to a boy. DD likes to think she's the school police and was verbally abusive to the older girl who felt intimidated and went to student support. They didn't escalate as DDs friend showed them the messages she'd been receiving from said girl. DD has been asked to apologise but she is saying she will never apologise . I have spoken to her about interfering as this is usually why she's in trouble and tried to encourage her to tell staff so she's not blamed she said "I'm not a grass". That was that anyway all in all not a bad couple of days but room for improvement. Her heart is often in the right place she can just be such a hot head.

[Samantha28]

Im sorry I have no useful advice , expect this :

Ignore bobo chic, she's made similar goady comments on an innocuous thread about getting kids to help in the house, where she declared that children shouldn't do any chores as they are not servants!

Dear lovely harassed and despairing mums of teenagers - this is not your fault . It's nothing you have done wrong. It's bloody hormones and a very large sense of entitlement , which is the spirit of the age .

Please don't blame yourselves . You are doing well to have not murdered them by now .

[DisgraceToTheYChromosome]

Ah, a chink of light! Practice raising an eyebrow and saying "that's nice dear". As for the grass thing, point out that bullies use that argument, and it leads to feuds, often violent.

[Dragongirl10]

It sounds like your new approach is already working, well done! and stick determinedly to any rules set, then she will soon know there is no point causing a fuss when consequences happen.

Authority is an attitude and has nothing to do with being large, loud or aggressive, l will always remember my small grey haired, maths teacher who had the fab power to walk into a disruptive class and even the most determined trouble maker would wilt under her gaze! She never raised her voice, but was supremely confident she was in charge at all times .

l have been trying to emulate this ever since!!!except the hair..!

It sounds like your DD is being led this way and that, in her social circle and trying to find her place as teenagers do, it should be reassuring at that age if she knows exactly where she stands at home, a constant in her rapidly changing world, you have to be her rock.

To help with your feisty girl do you have any friends, family members she looks up to who may be able to mentor her a bit, it is really tough on your own, though l think you are amazing and being a fantastic parent, one day she will realise!

[Givemestrength100]

Thank you Samantha ! It happens so quickly it remind me of that Harry Enfield becoming a teenager clip. DD like to stick up for everyone which on one hand is admirable and another a pain as half her year run to her for help and she's always happy to oblige . She wouldn't target someone vulnerable but seems to do quite the opposite and targets the type of kids that I'd have been to afraid to say boo to.

[Givemestrength100]

Thanks so much dragon she does have a lady who shadows her at school it's like a discreet 1-1 and unlike other staff DD quite likes her based on the fact she wears nice make up and is quite fasionable and young she does confide in her quite a bit. She did have a really close relationship with my family but although she still loves them she doesn't see much of them now she has "better things to do" .
She does chat to two of my friends but again losing interest in them a bit.

[LizKeen]

It sounds like she has very low self esteem, and certainly the phone issue could be her way of feeling worthy. The more social contact she has with the phone the more popular and wanted she feels. Then it becomes the be all and end all, and everything else suffers.

I do wonder if her treatment of you is some kind of reflection of how she feels about herself. I think it sounds like she has welcomed the new boundaries you have set in place, and perhaps when you were giving in to her demands it was counter productive. You thought you were giving her what would make her happy, when what she really needed was you to say no and put the boundaries in place.

I also think you are putting too much emphasis on the fact you are a single parent. I am not sure that is necessarily a reason for her behaviour. I imagine my behaviour at her age looked similar to hers, and I was brought up by two parents in a stable marriage. Yes, you had her young, and yes her dad left, and yes you are doing it alone, and you recognise that those aren't excuses for poor behaviour, but you also suggest that you have, in the past, parented her through guilt because of those things. I hope you don't feel guilty about all that, because you have no reason to. You sound like a lovely mum.

I think you need to hold on to the fact that we often hurt the ones we love the most, and children certainly rail against the people they trust to love them unconditionally. Try not to take it all personally (easier said than done I know).

She is going through a lot, she is struggling at school, and although it looks like it is at her own hand, she is possibly feeling like it is all completely out of her control and is insurmountable. It can't be easy to get up every day and go face a school full of teachers who have you labelled as difficult, peers who see you as a trouble maker etc. The boyfriend could be a welcome refuge from all of that.

[PoppieD]

Hi again Giveme just wanted to pop back up and say glad things are going better- I was truly a little shit for a good proportion of my teenage years- my parents had the temerity to also not let me have bottles of alcohol and go clubbing at 14- the cruelty! Thankfully I can look back at those days with shame and laughter now. You are behaving as my own mum did and if your DD is the same as I was, I am so pleased she did place boundaries and can see the relationships of those I was jealous of a teen as a 'cool' mum who let the drinking and partying happen has deteriorated. I've digressed, but just wanted to say was rooting for you!