How to discipline and salvage some kind of relationship with DD.

[Givemestrength100]

DD 14 has been quite challenging for about 18 months. I am a single parent and find myself crying (pathetic I know and no not infront of her) due to her behaviour. She is so rude and abrupt 24/7 , she is constantly ready to jump down my throat and it doesn't take much. She is on her phone pretty much 24/7 comes down to eat then vanishes again. I just feel she has completely disconnected with me she doesn't even look at me and never asks how I am or engages in conversation with me. She is also very difficult at school and sees camhs regularly. She is just so selfish and rude I feel like I'm walking on eggshells around her and there is a major atmosphere between us, I try and chat but either get no reply or an angry one word. I just attempted to have a rational conversation with her about the amount of time she spends on her phone and got back "you know nothing about nothing shut up will you" so I respond that if she can't speak to me with respect she can hand her phone over (contract I pay for) she just said "I'm not handing it over if you take it I'll run away" then stormed off on the phone seeking more negative attention telling everyone how awful I am. I have tried to pick my battles etc but she is in battle mode 24/7 so simply asking how she is resorts in "you always ask me that for gods sake".
Not sure where the hell I went wrong but something needs to change.

Yes, of course I've got DC. And I do lots of things with other people's DC, including ones from highly dysfunctional families and DC with severe (= hospitalized) MH problems. But I don't that is relevant - we aren't on MN in any kind of work-related capacity, we are parents sharing experiences.

Flanjabelle's post is EXCELLENT.

It is not too late OP and it will be very hard, but not as hard as what she has been putting you and herself through for the past 18 months.

Sure, my advice is of course just my view and if there are more complicated issued here than l can have read, then maybe a different approach is needed. Op wanted advice from other parents.

l just don't accept that in normal healthy family situations, teens should be allowed to make their parents lives miserable and those of their teachers, and people just seem to think that's the norm.

l am a fair but fairly strict parent, nothing like as strict as my parents were,BUT all that l have achieved in my life l owe to the uncompromising, tough (although very supportive and loving) approach of my parents on behaviour, manners and applying yourself to work.

A relaxed approach may work well for some families, but if the op's daughter is failing at school and in the relationship with her mother, who seems kind and understanding, then that route is not working.

Sorry, Bobo. But I simply do not believe you!

And you really are not helping here, at all!

One thing that strikes me, OP, is that in your thread title you seem to want to 'salvage some kind of relationship' as well as 'discipline' your DD. It seems to me right now that the first may be undermining the second. If you're a lone parent it must be hard to tolerate being an object of hatred to your child, as you've got no adult partner to give you a hug, back you up and tell you you're doing the right thing. So it could be that you're giving your DD inconsistent boundaries because you're unconsciously afraid you won't be able to cope with her hating you if you stay firm.

My DD is turning 18 on Friday and i can honestly say it's only in the last 3 months that I can stand to be in her company, in fact lately she's fairly good company. From about 14 onwards she was an absolute bitch, at first I tried to "fix" her but after about 18mths of me and everyone else in the house nearly loosing our minds I decided enough was enough, she fed off the drama and arguements she caused so I just stopped.
I made mental notes of what would not be tolerated and as long as she didn't cross those lines I left her be.
Would always say morning, hello, ask how her day was but nothing else, I left her come to us if she wanted, sometimes did little things for her, picked up something I thought she's like but always with no expectation from her but just because I wanted to.
She was still unpleasant and there were still some arguements but the daily drama and warfare stopped.......and we all survived.
Hope that helps

OP I don't think your DD has a mental illness or is majorly distressed, she sounds like a typical teenager. In your situation I would take a step back and disengage. You've tried OP so if she wants to sit in her room all day let her. My younger sister was exactly like this and it's shit but it will pass just like every other stage! Work with the school regarding her behaviour but at the end of the day as long as she leaves with a set of ok GCSEs she'll be just fine.

Superb post, Dragongirl

My own son's teenage years are well past, but two friends who've raised teenagers more recently had very different approaches. The first knew hers behaved like a monster but was reluctant to discipline her because it would make her worse / upset or alienate her / she just wouldn't listen and all the rest ... and the second maintained firm but fair boundaries, insisted on respect for all family members and saw her role as a parent first and a friend second (while actually succeeding in both)

No prizes for guessing which daughter's now enjoying a wonderful independent life and which is still slamming round the house, pouting and demanding and generally making everyone's life a misery

Sorry for quick reply on the train home from work. Thank you for all your replies some very good advice.
Othehugemanatee you have hit the nail on the head completely. I had her so young (a few months older than she is now!) that I have at times over compensated and spoilt her through the guilt of her dad going awol 7 years ago. I have in the past given in as "all the other mums let them" I have wised up to that now but she does try and push boundaries daily. I hate arguing with her and don't have anyone I can chat with about the best ways to move forward etc. In my ideal world we'd get on and shed accept the boundaries without a fight but she's not that kind of girl so I'm just going to have to put my big girls pants on and get on with it.

And mandi thank you that's given me hope !x

I'm just going to have to put my big girls pants on and get on with it

It's the only way, OP It won't be easy and she'll probably kick like mad before she gets the hang of things, but it'll be worth it in the end

It must be very difficult, OP, trying to stay firm as lone parent to a wilful teenager when you're not even out of your twenties yourself.

Perhaps the thing to try and cling to is that she doesn't need you to be her friend she needs you to be her mother. And sometimes being a parent means tolerating being the object of hatred by standing firm on what you will and won't tolerate. It won't last, and it's not about you, it's just the black-and-white way teenagers think. If you crack because you need affection from her then she will never know where she is with you, which will feel unsafe and translate into further disrespect and attacks.

I wonder if part of solving this might be you looking for other sources of support that you can lean on a bit when things are difficult with your DD. If you feel isolated and quite dependent on your DD for affection and closeness you will find it incredibly difficult to be the firm parent she is relying on you to be for her.

Keep on posting here then op. Use this as your place to talk things through. use us as your back up. It's clear you have her best interests at the fore front of your mind, but she won't see that. use us as support when she tells you that you are cruel and that she hates you.

My mum had a rough ride with me, but she hung on in there. I ran away, I rebelled and pushed her further than many mums would cope with. She hung in there with the same message: "I love you, but I won't let you treat me like shit." I came back from the dark side at 17. I have been a decent human being since then. All thanks to the fact that she never gave up on me. The best analogy that she ever said was that it was like riding a bull, you just had to hold on and keep trying. I had mental health issues, but she never gave up and I can see that she was the best mum I could possibly ask for. Your dd will realise the same. Keep loving her, fiercely, and show her you won't give up on her no matter how much she pushes you away.

Thank you I don't really lean on her for support I just feel a bit disappointed that she can't even engage in a simple polite conversation these days. I was cross about New Year's Day as she'd requested the day together if brought everything and was looking forward to spending some time with her, being that it was her idea I thought she'd at least give me notice that she wasn't going to be there. I have friends but they don't have teenagers and find it a bit tricky advising me. I'm happy for her to do her own thing just wish she'd occasionally say "how are you ?good day" or just anything that isn't "when's dinner" or "I've got no money". I work full time and am doing a part time degree so I'm busy enough just miss our chats and the general good atmosphere that used to fill the house. Thankfully the dog still likes me.

Op you mentioned your DD was on her "last chance" at school, is this the last warning before a permanent exclusion?

Does she understand what the consequences of this would be? She would likely end up in the PRU which - I hate to sound pearly-clutchy but this is from my experience - basically a training camp for gang life, drug deals and living on benefits.

My D(s)S has had a troubled history and after I split up with his dad he lived with his dad for 2 years and then his dad died and he went to his birth mum for 2 years. During that time he had some major psychological problems due to emotional neglect from his dad and abuse from his dad's new GF, then physical and emotional abuse at his birth mum's. All this led to him having major anger management problems at school and being excluded and by the time I was able to regain "custody" of him the damage had been done and all the local schools to me turned him down and he ended up in PRU.

At first he thought it would be "a right doss" because they have reduced hours but after a week or so he realised that all that had happened was he'd ended up trapped in a much smaller environment with the same horrible chavvy shits who'd made his life a misery at his previous schools.

The vast majority of pupils there were boys and the very few girls were hard as nails types whose finest ambition was to be the girlfriend of the biggest dealer on the block

DS managed to scrape 4 GCSEs but really that was because I pushed him so hard at home. He was only there for a year and said it was the worst year, school wise, of his entire life.

I can also tell you that employers will look at the name of the school on her CV and know immediately it's the local PRU and chuck the CV in the bin.

I think you have to find a way of making her aware what she could be doing to herself here. She sounds incredibly angry and I'm sure a lot of that is about her dad for not being there, but she can't take it out on him so she takes it out on you. Lucky you! of course it's all magnified by teenage hormone hell as well.

Has she only had problems since she's been at this school, or has she historically had problems throughout?

I said earlier I more or less left my little darling to it, and I do more or less, but there are rules that shall not be broken or there are consequences. I mean she is in her room NEARLY ALL THE TIME but........she must join the family for meal times. No phone at the table, not even in her pocket as it constantly goes zzzzzzz with incoming messages. Clears away her dinner stuff, is polite, (ish), cleans and tidies her own room weekly, changes her bedding weekly, does her own ironing and puts it away, does her own recycling, cleans her own school shoes, wipes the shower down after use, and when she goes out I must know where she is going and she must be back at the stated time. I also have access to her phone password, which lots of mumsnetters have a big problem with, so if I want to check her history i will. She has got into lots of trouble before including being groomed.

I do think that social media is very damaging to the immature teenage brain. The constant pressure to get a selfie with more likes than so and so, and to have more friends than so and so. I heard a report recently from a psychologist who said that more than 400 friends on Facebook is too many and they will stress to keep up with all goings on. My little darling has 3000.

School has been hectic to say the least. She has LDs and being a teenager refused help or support so she fell quite far behind. I think her behaviour is masking the fact she has sunk so far she'd rather create than try and do something she might fail. To be fair camhs have been fantastic with school support they have delivered training to staff specifically on how to manage DD, they have recently put other (less embarrassing ways) of support and a reduced timetable my fingers are crossed that this will be success. I have employed a specialist tutor for home to , which is another reason I'm on the hate list. Camhs have in kinder words told the school they can't exclude DD and would be in a very grey area if they did. I am very lucky as our support worker is lovely but DD refused to engage with camhs most of the time but occasionally will. She has had no fixed term exclusions so I don't think a pru would be first port of call, hope.

Poor child. No wonder she's hurt and angry.

Nothing like social media (and t'net) for making us antisocial. Look at me mumsnetting when dc and dh are over there breakfasting together.

Bobo - I don't really like your tone throughout. She has had a difficult time I am not denying that but plenty of children grow up in one parent families , obviously I'd love for her dad to have been there for her but he wasn't I can't change that. She has always had support and love , she has counselling, she has anger management , she has CBT in the past but she has chosen not to engage. I don't really like your tone throughout this thread the way you say things implies DD has the shittest life ever and I'm a rubbish parent. I'm not perfect but I've tried please stop being so patronising. She is not "poor" she has a lot of support, time and love.

She's having a really rough time. I don't doubt you are too, but she's very young. Be nice to her.

I am nice to her- when did I say I wasn't?

I'll second that, I don't like Bobos condescending tone either.

It's just patronising and I appreciate life hasn't been easy but it's not been crap either. She has love, a roof over her head, good friends, pocket money, love,the flipping I phone, a holiday a year, friends over most weekends, nice experiences, nice school, nice house, extra curricular activities (she quit but was doing gymnastics, drum and guitar lessons and gym membership), she has unlimited time and I'm always there for her always . She has never gone without or suffered. In fact if anything I have over compensated to much for her fathers failures and have given in to emotional blackmail and guilt trips , she is just pissed right off it doesn't work anymore and her requests were becoming more and more unreasonable. She has learning difficulties but so do a lot of children it's not an excuse for rude behaviour. She is young but in a year and 2 months she will be 16, no employer will put up with this behaviour so she has to learn - tough life or not.

It's not patronizing or condescending. You are merely trying to deflect a message that you don't want to hear. Up to you, of course, but I feel desperately sorry for your DD.