OW

[Whisperingeye1]

Sure I will get flamed for this but..... looking through some of the threads I have a question. Why are OW seen as devil incarnate whilst the lying, cheating bastards who actually made the commitment in the first place seem to get less bad press. Men are seen as easily led. Seen posts questioning how they can save their marriage (to the lying cheat) whilst flaming OW. I am not an OW by the way and have never been cheated on by dp (as far as I know!) so am curious.

ShowStopper, I agree with that (if DP had lied and she was oblivious etc)..indeed somebody posted upthread as that exact same scenario happened to her. Of course you can't lay blame in that situation at all, which must be horrendous. It's amazing how she didn't "wish" to hear from you, I'll bet she didn't! Nobody likes to be confronted with their shit behaviour do they...unless of course you're "my" OW, who initially offered me "support and somebody to shout at" (I still can't get my head round that at all...!). She said "you try and kid everybody this is my doing but if you were so great, why did he leave"? Of course, it was all my fault. Nothing to do with their affair. If you're going to do something like this, that causes the extent of damage it does, at least face up to your role in it.

I am really glad to read that you have "emerged" as it were, you deserve everything lovely

H's OW has had a horrendous time but all of it of her own making. She is now in the throes of another affair with another MM and he H has found out and she is living with her mum while MM decides whether or not to leave his marriage. The only thing I ever did to her was doing nothing - I didn't tell her BH about the A and I can only imagine she spent a long time waiting for the other boot to drop.

The only people are feel sorry for are her children.

MrsC always articulates herself perfectly and has helped me with her posts as have others on this thread in my own situation for which I thank you.

This has now happened twice to me. How do I feel? I would honestly describe myself as a 'broken' person. That doesn't mean being broken is bad or worse but I will never be the same person I was, just different.

My ExP AND the OW did that to me. They are absolutely BOTH responsible. I also agree with ShowStopper - if an OW had been lied to and knew nothing then I wouldn't blame her but even then, she is still responsible for what she does next when she does know the truth.

For me, there are two types of women - the type who would be an OW and the type who wouldn't. Even if I didn't have the experiences I have with OW, I would never ever be an OW. The first OW in my earlier relationship had been cheated on by her DP and she actually justified it to me by saying 'well someone did it to me, so why should I feel guilty about doing it to someone else'.

MrsC I've just had a read through some of your posts and I'm so sorry you've gone through this too, the OW in your case sounds utterly vile.

and for you. You sound like an amazing person.

MrsC if I used the incorrect form of address then I offer you an apology. No disrespect was intended, I simply shortened a long name.

Well no disrespect was intended to MrsC and as I unintentionally picked the wrong words to abbreviate it would have been appreciated if my error could have been pointed out without the hostility. Cheers.

MrsC I would never have asked my DP to leave his wife and family. If she had not found out about our affair and slung him out he would not have left his family.

However I know I am not without blame and I accept I was very much in the wrong too. I do feel a lot of guilt.

Your OW is a fucking bitch from what I have read of your posts. I am not excusing myself but she is on a whole other level and I sincerely cannot understand how she can sleep at night behaving in such a manner.

Sending you good wishes for the New Year and a wish for an improved year.

As the OP I just want to say that I was perhaps naive when I first posted. I have never had any experience of either being the OW or my DH cheating. Having read some of your experiences and the vile things that OW have done I can see that many are deserving of the blame they get. MrsC the OW sounds like a vile human being and I am truly in awe of how strong you are after everything that you have been through. I am genuinely shocked by the disgusting behaviour of some of these women and the fact that they don't care about the devastation that they leave in their wake. I really hope that everyone who has been through this situation finds the happiness that they deserve.

Onadark

So you accept that he is only with you because she refused to allow him to stay? Leaving aside for a moment the issue of cheating etc, how on earth can you be ok with that?!

Your self esteem must be in the toilet if you are happy to be with a man to whom you know you are second best, second choice....better than nothing.

I think the fact that you were the OW is the least of your problems tbh and I wish you luck, genuinely, because I dont think that this is going to end well for you. Imo the best you can do is walk away from this man and find someone who loves you the most, above all others, and is also free to do so.

Bogey, you got in before me. I don't get it at all, why on earth would you want to be with somebody who is only with you because he's been slung out? It also blows his claims about the state of his marriage out of the water because if it was as awful as he described, he wouldn't have stayed, OW or not. I think it's really sad actually, especially given the collateral damage. You couldn't have carried on having an affair indefinitely, it would have come out eventually, it nearly always does. What a mess.

HairyMrsC, I cant help thinking that there will have been at least some points where he was begging his wife to have him back, while setting up with Onadark. And lets face it, if he only sees her as better than being on his own, surely its only a matter of time before he moves on to the next one?

Onadark I really do think that you should look into counselling to find out why you are happy to accept his crumbs, second hand crumbs at that, rather than doing what his wife has done and only demanding the very best of treatment. She got treated like shit and got rid of him, you got treated like shit and you seem grateful that he is still in your life. I dont get it.

I would never have asked my DP to leave his wife and family. If she had not found out about our affair and slung him out he would not have left his family.

Re-read the second sentence above OnADark.

It's very sad that you know this and are still with him. You must be very damaged to accept this treatment and genuinely think that you are going to live happily ever after with this man.

The reality is far, far different. Deep down you know it.

He is a serial cheat and he is only with you because he didn't want to live alone.

I doubt very much that he will stay faithful. It truly isn't in his nature. And you and he aren't a great love story. He is with you because you were convenient. He would never have left his wife for you. Even if you had asked. You have just said that yourself.

Has he addressed why he cheated on his wife several times? Why he chose to do that? And not the bullshit 'I wasn't happy' crap they all come out with à la 'The Script'. Has he been for counselling to address these issues?

Have you been to counselling to work on your (obviously) very low self esteem as I seem to remember that he isn't the only MM you have had a 'relationship' with?

Stop kidding yourself that you are in a great relationship. It simply isn't true.

Be careful tho dark
My ex didn't want to leave either and spent many a joyful hour begging me to take him back, he booked a holiday, brought me presents and even pointed out how lucky I was that he had never hit me in the 18 yrs we were together.
I still booted his cheating arse out and he predictably ended up with ow.
They have 4 dc now and he has cheated on her a few times as well as still suggesting we get back together even on my wedding day to my new and improved dh!

I wish ow no malice now but what a waste of a life being with that twat!

Bogey I accept he initially wanted to stay with his family and I understand his reasons for doing so.

He wanted to cause as little pain and disruption to his family, wanted to stay living with his kids, and didn't want the financial upheaval that comes with splitting up. I did understand why it was better for him to stay and I sincerely do not have an issue with him trying to work things out with his family.

When his wife slung him out he was free to have a proper relationship with me. He had just come out of a long marriage and we both thought we would take it slowly and just see how it went.

Our relationship has developed a lot. It is really good. We laugh, we talk for hours about anything and everything, we get on really well and are good for each other, it is passionate, we have the same humour and shared interests. He is kind, thoughtful, caring and supportive. I have no doubt at all he does genuinely love me.

He has told me he wishes he had left to be with me a long time ago. If it was second best it is not now.

I am properly happy for the first time in my life so why would I walk away from it.

OnADark... I'm wincing at your post. I realise that you don't mean to be insensitive but actually, you are being so.

I'll just disabuse you of a couple of notions here:

1. If he'd seriously wanted not to cause pain and disruption to his family, you wouldn't be posting about him now because he wouldn't be with you.

1. Second best is a bit subjective at the best of times but, gently, first best or first choice/chosen is no longer available to him. Sorry but that is true.

.
I really hope that your dreams come true with this man because they've cost dear. I do believe that sometimes a second chance brings more happiness but it's the way that it's gone about. He may well be happier with you than he was with his wife, people change and you don't always marry the person who is 'best fit' BUT please consider tempering your posting a bit because whilst you're celebrating what you wanted and now have (and best wishes to you both), there are posters here who are not out of the other side yet and still very much in pain.

That phrase, 'least said, soonest mended' is quite a good one. Remember where you are. :)

Lying I posted purely to reply to questions asked of me. I sincerely did not intend to be insensitive and I apologise.

It was put to me my DP is only with me cos his wife slung him out and it is inferred he does not really want to be with me and it is just convenient for him until another woman comes along. Also posted as a given is he will cheat on me cos of his track record.

It is a tad difficult to correct those assumptions without mentioning our relationship is good and explaining why it is.

I sincerely do not wish to upset anyone on here and this thread is not the most appropriate for me to post on.

I will answer the other quesions briefly and as sensitively as I can. I do appreciate the pleasant tone of your post and thank you for the gentle reminder.

MrsC DP has not said his marriage was awful. The spark had long gone and their kids were the most important thing to both of them. They got on reasonably well but many aspects of the marriage could have been better. So not downright awful but not good enough for him to be content and happy.

Bogey he texted me to tell me his wife knew about us, rung me the next day and then we went n/c while he tried to repair his marriage. I am quite sure he would have begged his wife to stay in that time.

I appreciate you are trying to help me but I do not feel I need counselling and DP does not treat me like shit, quite the opposite.

We laugh, we talk for hours about anything and everything, we get on really well and are good for each other, it is passionate, we have the same humour and shared interests. He is kind, thoughtful, caring and supportive. I have no doubt at all he does genuinely love me.

Every word of this was true about my relationship, and my DH still cheated on me.

You have been fed 'The Script' and you've swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

I'm sure he was unhappy in his marriage. Given that he'd had affairs before you and then an affair with you, how could he not be unhappy? It's not as if he was trying to make his marriage work, is it? :-/

The fact is you just don't get it. You really sound like the cat who has the cream. You think you've 'won' and your DP's ex-wife should just get over it as you and he are obviously perfect for each other. Really crass!

If you were perfect for him, he would have left his wife for you a lot sooner, of his own accord.

He didn't. He is with you as his wife chucked him out.

You're so convinced you are meant to be together you can't see this at all. I actually feel sorry for you.

You are also convinced he's changed? Why? Because he loves you so much?

He may do.

You know what, he probably loved his wife when he married her too. He probably still loved her the first time he cheated. And then he carried on shagging around as he'd done it once. Why not, eh?

Has he addressed the issues that make him the selfish, self-entitled prick who thought it was OK to cheat, to cross that line, not once but on several occasions? Has he talked to a professional, had counselling for them? Or have all those issues been swept under the carpet of your great, romantic love?

Because it isn't, you know? It is sordid and built on deceit, lies and other people's pain and misery.

Love doesn't conquer all, and if those issues haven't been addressed they will resurface in one way or another.

Lying to be fair to OnA she was replying to me, not just posting that out of the blue.

OnA I dont think that you want to see the truth here, I can understand why but fooling yourself is never a good idea. He had an affair with you so presumably seeing you when it suited him, dropped you like a hot stone the second his wife found out, you think probably begged her to stay and only came back to you when she chucked him out. That is not the opposite at all, it is the dictionary definition of treating someone like shit!

The fact that you not only accepted all of this, but steadfastly assert that your relationship is very good as a result does lead me to think that you need to talk to someone about your exceptionally low expectations.

The spark had long gone and their kids were the most important thing to both of them.

Oh, bless him. The spark had long gone. Did he think he might find it in someone else's knickers?

OnADark... Fair enough. I'm not sensitive to this particular issue and you were obviously posting to Bogeyface anyway, sorry for picking it up. You're as entitled to post on this subject as anybody else.

OnADark... I've read your other replies now and I'm glad that you feel able to put your points across. You've had quite a hard time on this thread and you remain polite in the face of it. Kudos there. :)

The fact is, nobody but nobody but you and your partner knows what your relationship is like therefore nobody can comment on it with any kind of authority. In affairs, there are a series of events that are common to the circumstances, these are referred to as 'the script'. I don't believe that anybody's life can be reduced to this. There are good marriages and bad ones and people fall in and out of love for whatever reasons that they do. In an ideal world, people would walk away from one relationship before starting another.

There is a bit of a paradox on MN whereby posters are adamant that men and women should be able to end a relationship, at any time, for any reason. However, when some men/women do this, walk away from their relationships - without anybody else being 'in the wings' there is an utter disbelief that people would walk away. I can understand that. It must almost be easier (in my opinion) to be left for somebody else rather than be left because your partner has just fallen out of love with you... but it happens.

This subject is always going to hit sore spots, it can't fail to do that, but the fact of the matter is that everybody's circumstances are different and in the end, if a relationship is over, it's over. Treatment of the left-partner needs to be decent and that indicates some level of decency, particularly where there are children involved. Some of the posters here have had a shocking time of it with their ex-partners and the OW involved, it's incredibly sad.

I hope, with all that has passed, your partner is a decent man who will do his best by you and continue to do that for his children, whilst treating his ex-wife with respect also.

I agree that ona has remained very dignified abd on the whole this has been an unusually grown up conversation.
The only thing I would say is that I hope when your relationship gets more comfy and "a bit stale" he is more loyal than he was to his wife.
Will you have children? Because that's a recipe for staleness for a lot of couples.
My Dh abd I have spent all day clearing up the house after christmas. It was tedious.
In our earky years we'd have spent the day in bed or doing something nice together but then real life kicked in and I just hope we are both able to still remember our love and commitment to each other abd not seek freshness elsewhere.

Mm, posters will remember onadarks posting on an earlier thread and that may well colour their opinion of her. (It does mine)

I think onadark knows very well what she has to do to keep this man - no kids, no illness, no weight gain, no loss in sexual appetite, no life without him- and she is (for some reason) prepared to do so- in fact, it came across that she couldn't understand/rather despised women who don't-
she'll be fine.

OH!!
I remember that one!
Oh dear.

Every time I see a thread like this one I wonder if the OW who posts is the one my ex husband left me for. I should probably resist the urge to read since I get absolutely no crumbs of comfort nor sense that I am better off without him, that they have done me a favour, that karma thing will bite etc etc...if the karma thing is true btw I must have been a prize bastard in some previous time because I've never experienced pain like the that of losing my marriage, home, friendships, self respect, sense of identity, hope for the future and trust in myself. Sad, that.

But (very late to the question, I know) I hold them both responsible, him more because he was so calculating and SUCH a good liar I can almost believe she could have fallen for the 'marriage is dead in the water' line when I thought we were still very much a viable couple. That's all I have to say. I'm not nearly so eloquent as other posters, and besides, 5 years on and I can't find the words.