Love You To Death: A Year Of Domestic Violence Tonight 9pm BBC2

[Hillfarmer]

Vanessa Engle documentary focussing on the lives of the 86 women killed by their male partner or ex-partner in 2013.

When oh when is this going to change?

We need to protect women, but when and how is male behaviour going to change? Who is working on that? Where is change happening on that?

Thanks for the heads up I will be watching

Thanks I watched ..vile men ...what is to be done

Watching now on catchup. Awful and an utter scandal.

I seem to recall from the film

'It wasn't domestic abuse - he only hurt things'.

Or something like that.

I felt I owed it to the women killed (and all victims of DA) to watch really but it was tough.

When the policeman said it was a big step up from harassment/stalking by lee birch to murder and he'd said nothing would have stopped him I was screaming at the TV. IT IS NOT A BIG STEP UP, that is actually WHY we have non-molestation orders. It is HARD to get one... How is having that attitude as a policemen responsible for keeping victims with non-mol orders safe in any way acceptable?!

And yeah the 'daddy's girl' who claimed her other sisters were making things sound worse than they really were when their dad had SET THE HOUSE ON FIRE. Was awful - I just know what her future with men will be...

I'm upset now really, thinking about things that have happened to me and fears for mine and DC future but really you should be upset watching it...

I watched it with DP. He was really surprised and wondered why we didn't hear about this scandal more often on the news. I can only think that it has become so normal that unless there are some particularly vile features it's almost become accepted as normal.

We don't hear about it because until very recently no-one in any position of power was interested. The filmmakers (and other groups) set about collecting the names of women killed by partners and ex partners (and by men generally) because they have never been (and still aren't) compiled in a list together as though they are crimes which have a link (not between individual perpetrators but in terms of features). Some groups feel we should be collecting stats on this subject so we can analyse the common features in order to strategise better about offering earlier and better interventions. The government/police seem to be dragging their feet somewhat over this issue IMO.

52% of women murdered in 2013 were killed by partners or ex partners (more than that by men generally). Only 3% of men killed in 2013 were killed by female partner/ex partners (and often there has been a history of DV from the victim to the killer in these cases which is not usually a feature in female deaths). It is crazy that they will not even collect and share data on this obvious issue.

That was a very very difficult programme to watch

Brilliant posts Offred.

And society has to stop punishing women with poverty for leaving.

The daddies girl was scary one I grant she was still being a little girl to her dad on the phone . Sickening when he come out he is going to control her too.

I hope the 2 young girls are getting help and I would not have put them on the telly for their dad to see.

That documentary was shocking. The thing that got to me the most was the ages of the ladies, there wasn't one age group exempt. I can't stop thinking about that.

I hope the 2 young girls are getting help and I would not have put them on the telly for their dad to see.

This concerns me too summer. But there's the rub... unless you see the people (including children) that are left behind, you can't tell these stories. Those children were the heart of the film and they were the most vulnerable, and at the same time most compelling, contributors because they are children. This is another reason, as well as Offred's that these stories do not get told - because the victims are cast into silence and fear exposure. Why do people - particularly mothers - not tell their stories fully and identifiably? Because they have children. I wouldn't tell my story publicly because of my children. If that is how I feel, and my story is not particularly dramatic, then how do any of these stories come to light and then the problem remains 'hidden'.

I think it is a huge problem - the silence of victims of abuse. They are the honorable ones, keeping their children safe - but they are the ones who are blackmailed into silence. In some ways, these stories are only allowed to be told when the victim is actually dead - which is horrific in itself.

I agree with everything Offred and Hillfarmer said.

One of the problems regarding domestic violence is the sentences given to men who murder women. These men often reoffend again.

I'm reminded of the case of Anthony Hardy, who lived in Camden and was charged with the murders of three sex workers. He dismembered two and their body parts were found in the bins near the estate.

Hardy's wife divorced him citing domestic abuse, in fact he was charged with trying to drown her 5 years before the divorce, but these charges were dropped.

Hardy's first victim was found dead in his flat, but he was cleared of her murder because of the pathology report (the pathologist was later struck off the medical list, following his report on the death of Ian Tomlinson).

Clearly this man was/is a danger to women. It's believed he possibly killed 9 more women. Thankfully, he will never be released from prison, though it's not clear if it's because he is a danger to women or due to a personality disorder or both.

The two young girls are getting help and support. They had lengthy discussions about a. Whether it was appropriate (they decided it was important to show the effects and give the children a voice), b. They only went ahead with the grandparents permission, the girls permission and their mental health workers (forgotten what they had in place exactly) after they'd done assessments.

I have started telling people btw but it's taken around ten years for me to be able to cope with that psychologically. There are certain people I will never tell (parents who are abusive and siblings who would tell parents) but I think it's important to speak about it if you can.

Not to mention the fact that I have two children to one of the people I was abused by. It's tricky to speak about abuse by a person who you still have to co-parent with.

I hope the 2 young girls are getting help and I would not have put them on the telly for their dad to see.

^ this.

They broke my heart talking about their mum and hearing that they heard how she died through neighbours was just awful however it has kind of been taken to a new level as they went into so much detail as to how she died they'll probably hear more. I am a child of dv (mum got beaten, me and bro got beaten - kind of a blur really) and this doc hit me hard! I've never realised how lucky I am that my mum got out when and how she did...

I understand why they did it though...

Telling people is tricky because you fear their reaction. They might well think you're too invested in this person's life, bitter, jealous, vindictive (especially if the ex moves on to a new relationship).

Thankfully, my mum believes me, she was abused by my father. That's all that matters really.

It's very difficult to co parent with an abuser.

I only started telling when I stopped feeling responsible for how people took the information! Obviously with my parents it is trickier because, particularly my mum, is overbearing and interferes. When I was pg with dd (after he raped me) and abuser had left they had secret meetings with him, slagged me off and encouraged him to take me to family court. Having to be 'reasonable and fair' to your abuser in a family court setting (which was ultimately thrown out as a vexatious suit 3YEARS later) really set me back in recovering as I was not able to say or even really allowed to think anything negative about him.

I think it's important not to protect kids too much. They should be able to give input in a supported and appropriate way for their own recovery and also they need to know what their dad did because he is their dad, when he gets out of jail they will still be vulnerable children and he will be able to exert his parental rights if he chooses.

Very hard film to watch and the stories of those left behind were really hard. Aside from the two little girls (who seemed incredibly undamaged, I think, which must be due to living with their lovely grandparents), I was really touched and saddened by the impact on the two friends of Kirsty Humphrey. At the end where they were saying that they just don't trust anyone any more and how it has made them afraid to start a relationship with anyone. I really hope they get some help.

I agree Offred, I've warned my children not to trust their dad, because he will lie to them. The pennies are finally starting to drop. However, it's tricky for them because we and them, rely on him financially. They "don't want to bite the hand that feeds them".

Also it means that when he drops bombshells, and I react badly, I'm seen as the baddie (I was always the one who was left to discipline the children, extremely frustrating). It's horrible.

My eldest two (10 and 9) have recently started saying they don't want to see him because promises things then he lets them down and just plays computer games when they see him but they don't want upset him by saying that.

The eldest knows more about things than the younger one but the younger one is more damaged tbh. It's so hard really and no-one wants to help, not school, not the GP and WA don't have the resources.