Love You To Death: A Year Of Domestic Violence Tonight 9pm BBC2

[Hillfarmer]

Vanessa Engle documentary focussing on the lives of the 86 women killed by their male partner or ex-partner in 2013.

When oh when is this going to change?

We need to protect women, but when and how is male behaviour going to change? Who is working on that? Where is change happening on that?

Patriarchy is a cultural problem though not a genetic or chromosomal one. We do not have to accept or have patriarchy. It can be changed.

Yes I do agree that all men benefit from patriarchy. Often in ways they have never considered or recognised and that a number of men who consider themselves to be 'nice' or 'respectful' have no idea how complicit or even actively sexist they are. That makes it very difficult to change.

I don't think it is an inherent problem with being a man though. The violence in society committed has reduced over (a long) time because it is becoming increasingly culturally unacceptable.

All human beings are capable of violence and all human beings are capable of making a choice not to behave in that way. Society is capable of ridding itself of the idea that 'masculinity' means violence and abuse.

I wholeheartedly believe that.

*committed by men

Your MIL is getting a lot of blame for being in an abusive relationship.

I find it difficult to get away from there being something fundamentally wrong with maleness. Throughout history, men have been violent. What Sakura meant by its in their DNA I'm sure is the undeniable truth that male humans have propensity for violence. It's just a fact. The function of androgens is exactly this.
Evolutionary I guess it had a purpose, protecting land, food etc. So how long would it take to eradicate this 'natural' tendency in evolutionary terms? Well we'll all be long gone.

My ex MiL doesn't think her son is lovely at all. My mother doesn't think her sons are lovely either. Both love them, but then that is a matter of language and human bondage - of course they are going to love their sons.

If I was truthful, none of these men attached to the two women above would shed a tear if they died. My ex didn't grieve on the death of his father (a lovely man) and my brothers didn't grieve on the death of their and my father either - (and he was an abusive shit).

And I think it's a risk for women to live with men in a society that still values male violence as an expression of masculinity (and the idea of masculinity itself). It's also a risk for men who suffer violence from other men too and children who are more likely to be abused by stepfathers etc.

It's just a risk to the fabric of society for this culture of masculinity to exist full stop.

I do still think it's a cultural problem. When we stop raising men and boys to think being a man equals being violent and abusive then these appalling DA deaths will reduce significantly.

I do agree btw that culture massively affects propensity to violence but it is also true that every culture has a problem with male violence so it's not just culture

She blames herself. The fact remains that her way of dealing with her abusive relationship (by staying and trying to teach her kids that their dad is awful) is what shaped her children's attitude to relationships in general. It's not victim blaming to point out that one of the main tragedies of not leaving an abusive relationship is the effect it has on the DC's adult relationships.

I think some of it is opportunistic. Men are able to opportunistically grab power and control when a woman is incapacitated during pg/birth/postnatally. I think that's why there is a global culture of Malle oppression of women. It's simply been drawn from an opportunity to gain an advantage which exists in all relationships between men and women.

Women who get pregnant are power givers during pregnancy, birth and postnatally. However, although we acknowledge this by dent of this particular website, and through history generally, somehow it has ended up that women at this time are vulnerable and not venerated. Pregnancy has now become a crack in the human system to be exploited.

In physical terms though during pg, labour and postnatally women are physically and emotionally vulnerable to exploitation by male partners. I'v often thought that's one of the reasons why abuse ramps up during pg and after DC.

So easy to take advantage of the vulnerable, too much temptation for those with a domineering or predatory nature to resist

Or even those who have been raised to think it is 'normal', 'natural', 'evolutionary', their 'role', their 'right'... So many reasons excuses

This thing about 'being a provider' feeds it so much too. So many men disappear into work and abandon their partners when a baby comes along even with good intentions thinking that a man's place is in work and a woman's is in the home even if they would not articulate it in that way... Many are 'grateful for all you do' without thinking about their own contribution or their partner's right to control over her own destiny because they are very hung up on gender roles. Women often realise gender roles are restrictive and disadvantage them because they suffer the disadvantage. Many men never need to confront that fact because they are gaining a privileged position. Many who consider themselves feminists even.

Provider/dependent is not an attitude which respects equality. It's quite simple really.

The most important thing in a male partner is watching how his behaviour demonstrates his beliefs and attitudes about gender.

And the control and predatory behaviour during pregnancy is very explicit when it comes to abortion. The ultimate control, exercised to all women whether they wish to be mothers or not.

Of course if a woman decides to keep the child against the wishes of the father, then she also puts herself at risk.

A dominant person wants to be in control and so acts in accordance with self interest
An intelligent dominant person who has a greater degree of self control may realise that violence is not a useful strategy over the long term.
Then again maybe some people enjoy inflicting violence?

Power is rarely conceded willingly

Yes the man who kicked his unborn son to death because he believed his ex was inflicting her pregnancy on him was found guilty yesterday.

Control of women often centres around fertility, pregnancy and child rearing. Even over choosing to remain childless; Holly Brockwell received appalling abuse online after simply stating that she didn't want to have children and was being prevented from getting the sterilisation she was absolutely committed to.

No, sad fact is because of sexist culture many women also believe it is the natural way of things or romantic until they live with the effects.

I got shouted down on here for telling a man that speaking to his gf's boss to get here time off for a weekend away was not romantic and was quite controlling. Equally many woman sniped at me for being deeply opposed to the-big-romantic-proposal.

The idea of romance always seems to involve a man taking control over a woman's life and choices.

Many women are deeply invested in the idea of it until they wake up and realise their whole lives have been dictated by their male partners and no amount of 'isn't it romantic?!' Can change that fact.

That's partly what I mean about it being partly a cultural problem for the whole of society.

We need to stop telling girls being a girl means liking clothes that restrict their movement or make them look sexy to men and toys and stories about men ruling every aspect of a woman's life or a woman being a servant.

Just as much as we need to stop telling boys that being a boy means having sexist banter, playing rough and tumble games, violent video games and 'sticking up for yourself' fighting.

I believe a dominant intelligent person who is controlling is the worst form of abuser. They will refrain from physical violence and ramp up the non violent abuse and continue to do this for a very long time, and intersperse this like the violent offender with periods of being loving and kind. They are in it for the long term. I've no idea if they enjoy it or not. I think the behaviour becomes a compulsion as is the object(s) of their deviant behaviour. These people could snap and kill, but they will have subjected their 'prey' to abuse previously.

Yes and encourage girls to focus on career/economic autonomy

I believe a dominant intelligent person who is controlling is the worst form of abuser

Indeed, beware of those who think several moves ahead of you...if you can spot them that is😫