Love You To Death: A Year Of Domestic Violence Tonight 9pm BBC2

[Hillfarmer]

Vanessa Engle documentary focussing on the lives of the 86 women killed by their male partner or ex-partner in 2013.

When oh when is this going to change?

We need to protect women, but when and how is male behaviour going to change? Who is working on that? Where is change happening on that?

Focus girls on empowerment and their right to control over their time, energy, fertility, body, work, etc.

Focus society on preventing pregnancy and childcare responsibilities from being limiting. On them being joint burdens for mothers and fathers.

Some people make and female will want to be at home with kids and they shouldn't be prevented from doing so by economic or social disadvantage.

Some people will not and they shouldn't be forced into it because of sexist beliefs.

Career and economic autonomy will give women a degree of autonomy but ultimately during periods of vulnerability, illness, pregnancy, lactation, post birth, care of a loved one, they are more susceptible to abuse. Of course, women also want successful relationships as well. To fail in this and be successful in the career is going to be difficult to admit to.

There are many men I know who would prefer to be at home with kids if it wasn't so disadvantageous (obviously they fail to recognise their role in disadvantaging their female partners by not sharing the burden). I don't think it's lack of parenting instincts that prevent men from being equal parents but desire to cling to privilege, belief in gender roles and lack of willingness to suffer disadvantage.

Many women believe it is a woman's role to accept disadvantage and a fact of life.

Casual unthinking sexism/pure selfishness is as much, if not more of, an issue as real malignant hate I think.

Do women really need relationships that much?
Do they not tend to be more cost than benefit for women?

I think focus is too soft a word for it. It should be enshrined in law.

For example, it's not illegal for a person in a marriage to up and leave and abandon the main carer and the children. If people are going to enter into a relationship in which children are involved, the law should stipulate that if both parents are on the birth certificate of the child, then abandonment should be punishable by either hefty fines or imprisonment. Unfortunately, it's usually abusive people who will abandon children.

No-one needs a relationship.

Humans are social animals though and relationships can be (should be) pleasurable and beneficial.

I think we have come a long way in enshrining laws to protect women and children from abandonment/divorce. However, I think, as it stands, it's 50/50 which is a nonsense, as women do give up much more in terms of economic stability when children are involved. It's something you never think about though when you go through your first pregnancy. That's the easy bit, it's when other children come into it the vulnerability increases.

No-one needs a relationship
Not sure about that. As someone who has lived a long, long time alone, I think possibly human beings are designed to function most effectively when they are in bonded pairs as part of a troupe.

Yes humans are social but it doesn't follow that monogamous pair bonding is the route to happiness

We've come a long way but it has taken a long time I think. Hopefully things will speed up as the patriarchy loses it's grip. The influence of religion on family law has a lot to answer for too IMO.

Heterosexual relationships are the norm though as is the nuclear family. I believe the nuclear family is the thorn in the side for many women.

No, it certainly doesn't follow that monogamous pair bonding is the route to happiness. Totally agree.

Bonded pairs should be all inclusive though regardless of sexuality/non sexuality. Extended to quartets?

"possibly human beings are designed to function most effectively when they are in bonded pairs as part of a troupe*
Imo society has evolved to facilitate and favour that kind of arrangement so that those who don't conform feel out of the loop and at odds with the world

The nuclear family possibly has persisted because in particular it helps the economic system?

In terms of house building yes. However, it enables an abusive relationship to flourish.

This book made me realise that abuse is not just violent.

www.amazon.co.uk/The-Charm-Syndrome-Charming-Dangerous/dp/1902603192/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8

I think women are in much more danger now because we generally live more isolated lives, detached from our communities.

Incidentally, the Kent police were under investigation by the IPCC for their handling of the Lee Birch case - Anne-Marie called the police numerous times in the days leading up to her murder. Some of the police involved were being investigated for gross misconduct. I don't know the outcome but it was definitely very badly handled (and I'd go so far as to say that her death was entirely preventable).

"The idea of romance always seems to involve a man taking control over a woman's life and choices."

Yet the Disney myth still persists... and is aimed at young girls, so they grow up with the myth.

I wonder how many of the 48% were entered in to the wrong category?

I think the idea of romance is exceptionally heterosexual and male focussed.

One day your Prince will come.

You have to kiss a few frogs to find a Prince.

Strangely the focus is separating and unobtainable (you are more likely to win the lottery than marry a Prince in this country).

Separating in that the woman yearns for the Prince, he spends his time looking for her. The two meet only after punishing and gruelling conquests or punishments.

So, we all put up with second best, because the best is unobtainable. Being a Princess though means living up to expectations that are simply not attainable. A Prince has to be handsome, but he might well be a frog first.

Funny that there are no fairytales about a Prince Charming(!) kissing a Toad who turns into a beautiful and dainty Princess. (If I recall there is a tale about a Prince who kisses an 'old hag' and he is revolted by doing so. He manages somehow to overcome his revulsion and do this and she turns into a beautiful and dainty princess.)

Funny that before the kiss magically transforms them, Princes are either a racist depiction of a beast or a Frog, and Princesses are old hags.

"The idea of romance always seems to involve a man taking control over a woman's life and choices."

Hence the popularity of 50 Shades of Grey ?

Im childfree by choice and i was once called inhuman on a tv show by a man for making this choice.

what a prick! he thinks women are receptacles for his dick- sort of like a pissoir?

As someone else has posted upthread, I find myself wondering about the other 48% of women murdered in 2013 and who killed them. I would've thought that most women who are murdered have been killed by someone (most likely male) known to them with the number of murders by strangers very low. Does anyone know if these statistics are collected anywhere?

Adam, I am so very sorry for your family's loss. I hope the documentary makes some difference in raising awareness of domestic violence. No-one who watched can fail to have been deeply affected by it.