My mother. I don't know what to do.

[Quickhelp1]

We are v close, live near each other and she's a big part of our lives. She helps us with the children too and the other week I asked her if she would pick up my kids from school and wait with them till my husband got home, so for about 2.5 hrs. This was so I could visit my oldest friend who is unwell. That was fine, and my husband had taken the following day off so I could stay at friend's house and he'd do the school runs etc.
Whilst I was away one of the kids had a high temp and so DH kept him off school. My mum had said to him the night before that if he needed a hand with the school run if one was ill, to call her, so he did. (I wouldn't have rang her, first thing personally but he said she had offered, so he did and she came over and sat with the poorly one whilst he dropped the others.)

Anyway I came back and when I saw her, started to tell her about seeing my friend, and she tutted and rolled her eyes. So I asked why she did that and she EXPLODED. She laid into me about how my priorities are all wrong, I shouldn't be off trying to help other people when I had responsibilities at home, and what a terrible mother I am. My eldest has some additional needs including autism, and his diagnosis nearly killed me, but she said I should never have got him diagnosed, he would grow out of it, I've been looking for something to be wrong with him since he was born, and that because we paid for a private diagnosis then if you pay people enough they'll tell you what you want to hear. That I've "marked him for life" with this and I did it because I needed a "reaction." (Don't know what that even means.) I was horrified and told her that was an evil horrible thing to say.

I obviously argued back that what she was saying was nonsense and flies in the face of every specialist opinion we've had, and how would she feel if we left it and it turned out we were right, and she said "well I would be very sorry." I told her I would never forgive her for what she said, she ran across the room to hit me, but I shouted that she had better not, and she told me to get out.

I'm stunned. I don't know what to do. My dad came over yesterday and said "your mother is very upset" but that he didn't want to take sides, and I told him what she had said. He asked what my "plan" was and I said I didn't have one but if I did, it'd start with an apology from her. Then I went to the docs to get something for my shattered nerves.

What do I do????

I think an awful lot of us have unsatisfactory/unsatisfying relationships with parents in which we try and balance

1. a sense of duty. Plus some affection. Plus a recognition of the importance of grandchildren/grandparents having their own relationships

against

2. the need for taking sufficient personal space

Loving someone is not a reason to tolerate this sort of awfulness you are letting your DC witness that it's okay for one person to treat another in that way.

Children who are beaten and sexually abused still love their parents that subjected them to that sort of treatment...

Actually I was hoping that you would be able to list some good points regarding the relationship.

Does she help and be involved without it being used as stick to beat you with? Without the implied criticism?

You can change the dynamic from your point of view but you need to draw the boundary line much higher up than it has been. All that drip drip disapproval is so bad for you and your DC esteem as I assume she will be doing that to them to?

Obviously it's important to have compassion for oneself, to put up boundaries in terms of behaviour that one will not accept.

But there is also an issue of compassion for others - even if they're behaviour is very difficult

It's worth considering that this thread started with the issue of the label that was assigned to a child. (Autistic) People have rightly pointed out that stigmatising someone who isn't neurotypical is wrong. No one now would say, 'Oh that child isn't right, and they don't behave properly. Put them in an institution out of the way of ordinary people.'

But for many people it apparently as okay to label someone else's parent as a sociopath, a narcissist, someone with a personality disorder and say,'Your mother clearly has this problem or that problem so go no contact with her, and don't let the children be contaminated by having anything to do with her?'

Marianne, that's a tricky philosophical question that millions of people have to deal with. Some do it one way, some another, and most of us alter our strategies as time passes & things change.

I score 5 or 6 (depending on interpretation) out of 10 on the ACE scale. I have a good relationship with my mother. It is not close, it's not a mother/daughter relationship and it's not the relationship we had before I started therapy. I have worked very hard at this; I still do. The hard work isn't "on" my mother, it's my internal work to keep mentally and emotionally balanced within our relationship. I also have to work when with my siblings - which is rarely these days.

Some people score above 6. If you click through to the questionnaire, you'll see why it's usually best for them to stay away from the people who twisted their childhood development so.

Recognising the damage your parents did to you does not mean labelling them evil and hating them. It can sometimes mean this. Howard Shipman and Fred West had children! Many of us, sooner or later, find it healing to investigate the damage our grandparents did to our parents: understanding can be helpful, although it's not capable of mending a poisonous relationship.

MN's blog of the day is about this.

Or as Larkin said.

This Be The Verse
They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.

Yes. I followed his advice.

Or another way of putting it: "You choose your friends, but not your parents."

If your parent isn't a good friend, well ... do what you do with bad friends.

I'm wary of labels of narcissism, etc and Marianne makes an excellent point. Regarding the ACE score, mine is 3.

Random, I didn't come up with a list of things because I don't see my close relationships in terms of what they do for me, what I get out of it, etc. I have a disabled close relative. He is unable (and too idle) to do anything really for anyone pretty much but that doesn't mean I don't love him.
If we all saw al relationships on terms of reciprocity only, then the very young and the infirm would be disregarded surely?

I agree it would be self-defeating to see relationships as 'points based'. All relationships are transactions, though. It might be that your low-performing relative makes you laugh, is a great listener, or even allows you to feel good about yourself for helping.

It can be very helpful to remember than unconditional love is only appropriate for children and pets. Adults are supposed to recognise their responsibilities to those who love them.

I meant what are the true positives. How does she show genuine care and concern etc. Just spend some time being analytical on both the positives and negatives

I suppose what I want you to think through is how to maintain and increase the positive aspects of the relationship (therefore you need to identify them) whilst also stopping that negative and damaging behaviour.

It may be that any "help" you ask for is always thrown back at you so stick to purely social contact only - that kind of thing.

I maintain minimal contact with my parents and it is purely for their benefit, it costs me emotionally but I'm prepared to do maintain some contact despite that. I make effort with the in-laws because the DC love them so despite we have all been treated far less favourably than other family members I facilitate their relationships but longer ask or expect any help from them in any form.

I think I'd need support in being able to examine my relationship with my mother in that way.

Here's an update. Heard nothing, but had sent over presents with my Dad when he came on his peacekeeping mission. My mum works next door to where I'd ordered the turkey so she sent me an email offering to pick it up. No apology, nothing, and I forwarded it to DH who replied and said yes please, and he'd pop over after work and get it. So he's been, and apparently they're now not coming for lunch tomorrow as I should have replied to that email myself, not forwarded it, and she had considered biting her tongue and apologising but now she's not going to, and please could DH bring the kids over for an hour tomorrow to see them.

And he agreed.

I'm bloody fuming. She clearly doesn't think she's in any way wrong and I've no idea how this will go. Every single bloody row we have ever had, is down to her lack of boundaries, and nothing is going to change. Really pissed off.
I said to DH that they could come here if they want to see the kids, but he said he will take them.

I'd be telling my DH I did not want them to be taken over there. Don't see why your wishes and feelings count for nothing in all this.

Hell no! Man, I wouldn't send the kids over. Who knows what she'll tell them. Just have a lovely lovely lovely day at home. Enjoy each other. End.

Bad move from DH. Him taking the kids over makes it seem like you're the bad guy and he agrees.

But it's a predictable outcome, knowing how your mum tends to behave, huh?

Just read the thread.....how upsetting for you all.

I do feel a bit sorry for your DH though. Mine would do the same.

I know you said your ACE score was only three but read this. 4 and above is really serious so 3 is not actually as low as it sounds. I get 3 too. I consider myself to have had an abusive childhood.

acestoohigh.com/got-your-ace-score/

I emailed them and said we would be here if they wanted to drop in.

My house, my husband, my kids, my rules.

my ace score is 9.....well that's a bit shit isn't it fortunately im not a suicidal alcoholic abuser with piss poor work performance so maybe there is some hope for my kids?

As my autistic son once drily said "Granny just thinks that she would be a better parent than you." Nail and head come to mind. Families and parents are very aware of this issue of labelling. As a SENCO I have pupils who should have a diagnosis but parents won't hear of getting assessed because of 'labelling'. It takes a lot of gentle direction to get them to see that the 'label' isn't stuck on the child's forehead. You and they don't have to shout it to the rooftops. It does make it easier for the child though. I've one pupil whom the parents flatly refuse to tell the diagnosis. This pupil is nearing adulthood. I've another, much much younger, who is an out and proud autistic and consequently manages her condition analytically and we are able to interact with her and help her far more. There was a programme on Tv years and years ago about autism and many of your mother's generation will have got their ideas about the condition from that - the chap that is a brilliant artist, one poor family living in hell as their son regularly tore up the house. Your mother is scared that your son is going to be rainman (he's not- mine's working today and has his driving licence, a job, manages his own money, is kind, thoughtful and lovely) because that is all she has to go on. In her day the 'retarded' were educated in huts called 'remedial rooms' and were looked down on by everyone. She needs help in reducating her view. Could you do this via your Dad?

I hope you have a lovely day with your lovely family. Your mother needs to calm down and apologise - although I found with my mother the word 'sorry' didn't appear but she said sorry in different ways (usually through the medium of food!). Could your husband let her know how upset you are and how unjustified her views are.

Autism is a rocky path to tread for everyone. Is it worth including your mum with meetings from school. Then she'd see that it's not coming from you but professionals. She might accept that there are issues more readily then???

Thankyou, Flapping, for your kind and sensitive post. Your school is lucky to have you as their SENCO.

They've been, it was cordial, the children kept things diffused, but it was chilly and she didn't speak two words to me.

Phew! That's over, then. Well done

You can chug along with Christmas now!

I bet lots of us are quietly formulating family-related resolutions for the new year.

Have a good rest of Christmas.

Come to think of it, my DM was incapable of saying sorry and overstepped boundaries with my DSis constantly. But she too tried to make up in other ways.

Have just caught up. I think that is quite a good outcome, actually. She managed to be civil which is more than anyone hoped for.

Hope you are okay. 2016 might be a year of evaluating your relationship with her. I certainly have some family boundary resolutions I am going to try to keep.

Got to be a big part of the story omitted.

Another update - my mum saw some other rels over Christmas who then came to see us as well and has been asking them "well do you think he (my son) has autism?"
Clearly she doesn't get that it doesn't really matter what anyone else reckons, it's the doctor's opinion and us as his parents that count. No apology whatsoever is looking likely, nor has she been in touch.
Her lack of respect for us, boundaries and the way we raise our children is just awful.