My mother. I don't know what to do.

[Quickhelp1]

We are v close, live near each other and she's a big part of our lives. She helps us with the children too and the other week I asked her if she would pick up my kids from school and wait with them till my husband got home, so for about 2.5 hrs. This was so I could visit my oldest friend who is unwell. That was fine, and my husband had taken the following day off so I could stay at friend's house and he'd do the school runs etc.
Whilst I was away one of the kids had a high temp and so DH kept him off school. My mum had said to him the night before that if he needed a hand with the school run if one was ill, to call her, so he did. (I wouldn't have rang her, first thing personally but he said she had offered, so he did and she came over and sat with the poorly one whilst he dropped the others.)

Anyway I came back and when I saw her, started to tell her about seeing my friend, and she tutted and rolled her eyes. So I asked why she did that and she EXPLODED. She laid into me about how my priorities are all wrong, I shouldn't be off trying to help other people when I had responsibilities at home, and what a terrible mother I am. My eldest has some additional needs including autism, and his diagnosis nearly killed me, but she said I should never have got him diagnosed, he would grow out of it, I've been looking for something to be wrong with him since he was born, and that because we paid for a private diagnosis then if you pay people enough they'll tell you what you want to hear. That I've "marked him for life" with this and I did it because I needed a "reaction." (Don't know what that even means.) I was horrified and told her that was an evil horrible thing to say.

I obviously argued back that what she was saying was nonsense and flies in the face of every specialist opinion we've had, and how would she feel if we left it and it turned out we were right, and she said "well I would be very sorry." I told her I would never forgive her for what she said, she ran across the room to hit me, but I shouted that she had better not, and she told me to get out.

I'm stunned. I don't know what to do. My dad came over yesterday and said "your mother is very upset" but that he didn't want to take sides, and I told him what she had said. He asked what my "plan" was and I said I didn't have one but if I did, it'd start with an apology from her. Then I went to the docs to get something for my shattered nerves.

What do I do????

God! your mum is, unfortunately, very messed up. Unless she is likely to have some sort of epiphany/intensive counselling, she is not going to change. I think all you can do is extricate yourself from her dysfunctional web. That is not necessarily going completely NC but may take a LOT of strength on your part if you want to have a relationship with her that isn't peppered with her stressful tantrums and controlling behaviour.

For her generation, even in this country, it was indeed a blot, a shame, even worse than physical disability. There was a lot if discussion of eugenics, not just in Nazi Germany.

My DM, and I mean D, had a vicious tongue when overwrought. It could be triggered by lack if sleep, children being difficult, feeling a martyr, feeling never appreciated , feeling jealous, being used if it wasn't what she saw as an emergency.

That generation if women were told to manipulate, it was rude to ask for something. So they assumed you manipulated everything. And couldn't understand the make a decision and just get on with it, mode. And your much loved daughter, whom you can trust, gets it in the neck because she will still love you. Whereas no one else will.

I'm really sorry. It's shit. If she can recognise she was out of order she may offer you an excuse " I hadn't slept well". She may also have been battling with the realisation that you are right about your DS but she doesn't want yo acknowledge it. If she can't recognise it, you will prob just have yo paper over the cracks for your children's sake. And have the volcano rumbling. But use your father as the safe place for the children

I would like to say in defence of over 70s and in the memory of my DdepartedMIL, that there are many who were brought up with these sort of ideas in the background but are intelligent thoughtful people with wisdom gained over many years of experience who are absolutely brilliant, and in fact never thought that way. They are a huge support.

ricketytickety
"but also something perhaps she would consider herself doing...does she have form for lying about illness for attention/controlling others to do what she wants?"

Yes. She will lie to get what she wants. I've seen her tell "white lies" constantly but she has also told two MASSIVE lies t get the outcome she wanted, and they're the ones I've seen. There may well be more. I make it a personal value to be as straight as I can, probably in reaction to this.
I hadn't thought about it for ages until you said. Only last month she lied saying she was ill to get out of something, but actually she just had better plans,
She doesn't seem to think there's much problem with it either, just a means to an end.

Whatevva I hear you. V true. This isn't about her age IMO.

Haven't read the whole thread but have read all your posts, OP.

Your mother sounds toxic and dysfunctional. She could even have a personality disorder.

I think you should go no contact or at least very limited contact (and not for a while). Definitely do not let her babysit or have any contact with your children when you or DH aren't there.

Watch out for FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) and fight it!

It is really irrelevant what set her off, at the end of the day you are an adult and a parent and how you and your dh parent your children and how you live your life it has nothing to do with her.

The only thing you and your dh need to do is come up with a plan on how to go forward from here.

My DD is dyslexic (severely) aged 10 she is probably at year 1-2 level with her reading. Both my DP and my mother say (despite ed psych diagnosis) "she'll catch up" Err, no she wont - she will always be dyslexic and it will be a massive barrier to her learning. Yes, she is bright, but it is still a big problem for her - we are of course getting her help but still.

Both my mother and partner just cannot accept that she is somehow different in her learning to others.

I would imagine that your mum is struggling to come to terms with the diagnosis. After all, no diagnosis means you can stay with your head in the sand and hope that things will improve.

Saying that, the rage and going to hit you is unforgivable imo. If this is a very new change to her personality i would be considering talking to her GP and your DF about her mental health.

Thanks all. Going to have another talk with my husband tonight about it and how we proceed. I almost can't believe it. I keep forgetting how ghastly it was and then remember suddenly.

I don't want to cut her off from the children but I don't want to see her either.

I would certainly limit contact, how much so would depend upon whether or not lack of contact would upset your DC.

I would also change the locks on my house doors, if your DM has keys.

I don't want to cut her off from the children but I don't want to see her either

I think you need to protect your DC's from her, pleas dont expose them to her poison

Some really perceptive and great advice here.

I've experienced a much lower level version of similar.

I think you aren't going to get anywhere by freezing her out. She needs to apologise but I think you are going to have to be the 'bigger' person and open a channel to allow her to back down gracefully and apologise as part of a dialogue. I'm not minimising the shocking comments but I just can't see someone picking up the phone and apologising after something like that. Unfortunately she may feel she's justified in some of her views (but not actions ) still given the ideas aired above about feeling that she didn't have the opportunities you have to deal with these things, and the stigma attached to SEN lingering in her generation.

You might find a way to let her perceive it as an opportunity to air her views and then get her in a situation where you clarify exactly how hurtful and wrong-headed she has been.

Is there any way you can get her in a room with your DCs psychiatrist and enable the 'professionals' to explain exactly why he does indeed have autism

"I don't want to cut her off from the children"

Why not?

She went to hit you & doesn't accept the diagnosis of one of your children?

Were they the one that was ill?

Is it possible that she saw something this time that she hasn't before?

As a general rule I believe that children benefit from having contact with extended family. They like to know about uncles, aunts, cousins, grandparents. Knowing where they come from, where they fit into a wider network gives them a sense of who they are.

Some relatives are difficult. But my feelings is that if they behave kindly and in a safe way towards one's children then the children get to see them from time to time - even if a lot of teeth gritting has to be done by the parent..

It just seems better than saying. 'Oh we don't see Grandma.' 'Why not?' 'Because Grandma's a horrible person and/or doesn't have the right set of attitudes'.....

Oh no this sounds such an awful situation and complicated for you to unravel. How long ago was it? Perhaps let things calm down for a few weeks to get some perspective on it?
Btw what do you get from the doctors to calm your nerves? need some

"if they behave kindly and in a safe way towards one's children then the children get to see them from time to time"

She's not behaving kindly though, is she? Her behaviour, whether directed to the children or the OP, is unacceptable. If the OP lets it go unchallenged they will grow up thinking that it's acceptable behaviour.

Some people are not obviously abusive but they are still toxic and manipulative. It is vital to protect children from those people.

And it's ok to tell children "we don't see Grandma because ".

I suppose it depends on whether you believe people are either a) Good or b) Evil. And that we all get scarred for life by contact with those who are in category b). However if we stick only with people from category a) we will be alright.

Most of us are actually rather a complicated mix of good and less qualities. I certainly have one or two unfortunate characteristics, which can surface when I'm under stress.

So perhaps my child should have been taken away from me and given to someone wholly Good, who was married to somebody wholly Good and who had parents and siblings and friends who were wholly Good....

Girlwhowearsglasses I think you're right. I could, if I wanted, tell her she wouldn't see me or the kids until she apologised but she would just lie to get what she wants.

Marriannesolong yes, I agree. And I don't think she's evil. Domineering and self righteous yes, in spades.

She sounds very like my mother. People make excuses for her like it's her age etc etc, but there are plenty of old people who aren't nasty.

Mine was exactly the same with my sister, whose DD has SN. She always knew best and rubbished anything my sister suggested.

Now neither of us have much of a relationship with her and we actually feel a lot better for not having the stress of her nastiness hanging over us.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do

She is in the wrong and she needs to apologize for what she has said.
But a lot of older people don't understand autism,its not exactly rare.It sounds like she is in denial and is worried your DS would be treated the way children with SN were back when she was young with this talk of marking him for life nonsense.
You seem to have her very involved in your life with a lot of babysitting,she clearly feels that gives her a right to have an input into your DC,a simple solution is just to cut back on asking her to mind them.
If as you said you othwise get on well and this is one of only two arguments can't it be just that?

People say stupid cruel things,people make mistakes ,on mumsnet it seem they all have to be cut out and have personality disorders, but in the real world unless your free from ever saying something in anger and stupidity, you at least attempt to sort this out .Your Dad is right she is too involved, it suited you with the help she has given you but you need better boundraries.

How awful for you op

It sounds like she was feeling tired and like a put upon martyr. However, the hitting aspect is pretty off the wall. Does she usually do that? Aren't changes in behaviour (particularly aggressive ones) a precursor of dementia?
What were the massive lies she told? Does she know you know them?

Well there's no apology forthcoming so I guess she thinks she's entitled to say what she likes and that I need to back down. How horrible.

The lies? Both were a good 20 years ago but that's the ones I know of. One was an employee she wanted rid of so she fabricated evidence to get him sacked. The other was when she persuaded my Dad to fake a heart attack/angina thing so he could say he was stressed and get a compromise agreement. Both of these I know my dad was uncomfortable with, and but he went along with it.
She encouraged one of my siblings who dropped out of college to just fake their degree. I pointed out that as well as being fundamentally wrong, it was also an insult to anyone who actually had graduated, including me. That simply hadn't occurred to her. It was just a means to an end, a victimless crime etc. Interestingly one of my siblings has a VERY hard time telling the truth, everything from petty lies to massive fantastic fabrications. Hardly surprising when I think about it now.

Is your mother the kind of person who always has someone on her shit-list? My mother does and it can range from getting a bee in her bonnet over the telephone company/utilities/bank to actual people friend/my dad/me (but never my brother). The perceived wrong against her can be ludicrous and is really just an excuse to let rip. She never apologizes and hasn't spoken to me in 1.5yrs because of my brother's birthday plans (!)
That said, the leap to get physical with you stands out as possibly something GP worthy if it is truly new behaviour.