Helping DM come to terms with no contact

[GinThief]

I am hoping you might be able to help me with coping strategies / ideas for my mum.

My sister cut ties with my parents a few years ago. Its now been a year since she went completely no contact.

I see sister once a year due to distance but keep in contact when we can. We've never been close and I am happy with this setup. We both have busy lives.

My mum just cannot accept her daughter's decison, now very depressed & whenever we talk it's "why" "what did I do" etc. I've had the same conversation with my mum at least once a week. It's now making me resent phoning her/putting of calling as it's the same questions everytime.

She's had counselling which didn't really help as all she came away from it was she needed to accept situation which she has said she can't / won't.

I've been sending her magazines, thinking of you cards, taking her out for lunch etc to cheer her up. Deep down I know she doesn't want to see me she wants to see my sister. I can't make that happen so are there any coping tips from other parents who are now no contact with their children? how do I make my mum see there is a whole life out there for her away from her adult children with our own lives?

Vulcan woman how about the reason I gave? You can hardly blame my MIL for not abandoning her granddaughter. My SIL is damaged but not by my MIL (abusive father who was kicked out and chose to have no contact, very unpleasant first long-term relationship).

What about parental alienation? What about abusive relationships?

There isn't really enough info from your posts to say where right or wrong lies - and there doesn't need to be.

Your sister is an adult and you can't and shouldn't "give her a shake". Neutrality is the best you can do, even if you secretly agree a fair bit with your sister.

One thing to remind your mother: NC is not always permanent. Give it some years then it maybe will become easier between them; a bit of distance and breathing space helps a lot, sometimes.

Would it help your mother to remind her of that, and suggest the best thing she can do for now is to give your sister the space she needs? much as she misses her?

In practical terms, about phone calls. Would it be an option to say "i won't be answering the phone now til 18:00, but I'll ring you after dinner?" Giving her a time when you will definitely have contact will maybe help her feel reassured.

Alternatively, get a new phone and give the number just to your mum and answer when you can. Either simply ignore her - completely- on your main phone or, if it becomes unbearable since you're working from home, if you must block her for a couple of weeks. She'll always have your new phone no to contact you on.

Regarding her always bringing it round to your sister, if you are the stage where you find yourself wanting strongly to avoid her then the situation will go downhill. She does need time to grieve, I can't even imagine what it's like to have a daughter still alive but not wanting contact, though the situation occurred between my half-sister and her mother. There was extremely good reason for my half-sister to go NC though.

You've tried changing the subject. If that still doesn't work, perhaps the next step; would it be possible to use a kind of conditioning on her? If she brings up your sister then to outright say "mum can we please talk about something else". If that doesnt work, then "Okay mum, I need to go". To literally leave, if you have to. Ring her after a couple of days to make sure she's alright. If she challenges you, say that you asked her to leave the subject as you really think it needs space and time to heal, and that you think she needs to build up her own hobbies in the meantime. Not saying -never- let her talk about your sister at all, but to shut it down when you are at the totally-fed-up point.

Your mum needs time to grieve, but if you are so fed up that you are becoming alienated yourself then you have to take stronger steps so that you don't end up avoiding her yourself.

I -don't- think you should talk to your sister much about this, or at anything other than the lightest level. You see her once a year and aren't that close. Pushing your sister might well simply push her away from you.

fwiw, I think that some people just are selfish and unpleasant and cut people off lightly. Parents and children.

Others cut off relatives/friends for sodding good reason and after many years' bad treatment, for self-preservation.

Not every parent whose kid turns out badly is at fault. Not every bad parent has kids who turn out badly either.

There isn't a one-rule-fits-all for this situation.

It hurts that your mum accepts your support while still focusing primarily on your absent sister though, doesn't it op? It's like your 100% presence is of less interest to her than your sister's absence (or minimal presence when she was there).

Seriously, you need to distance yourself in order to protect yourself. My mother adored my sister despite all her shit and always preferred her company. I always made myself available, turned up and tried to be there etc, but it was still all about DSis. It hurt, and there was nothing anyone could do about it. I was hurt because my mother visibly cared more about my sibling than me, yet expected me to support her and keep her happy when said sibling buggered off.

Children should not be responsible for their parents' happiness, at whatever age.

You need to make some space in your relationship with your mum, if you can

Some of my family members started slipping towards NC with one another a few years ago. There was no real trigger, just a personality clash between MIL and DIL. No harsh words were spoken but the DS and DIL started making excuses to stop meeting, stopped returning calls etc, it could easily have gone all the way, they weren't bothered but the MIL was terribly hurt, she is forthright and speaks her mind but is in no way toxic. Another family member stepped in and said to the DS had he any idea how devastated his DM was at what was happening and he really hadn't realised, he managed to reconcile them to the point where they see each other once or twice a year and speak every few months on the phone and everyone is ok with that. I might be completely wrong but could this situation be similar?

robin so do you think your SIL blames her Mother for staying with her abusive father.

Children should not be responsible for their parents' happiness, at whatever age
I agree.

I agree that children should not be responsible for their parents' happiness. But adult parents and children should treat each other with the same consideration that they would treat any other adult. You do not have a free pass to treat your parents like shit just because they are your parents.

vulcan No, I not in this situation. Far from it. I am extremely close to my Mum and my daughter. I cannot imagine them ever doing anything which would make me go NC.

Barring abuse from this Mother, I think it's sad and cruel to go NC with her. And I doubt she was abusive or the OP would have said and she probably wouldn't be so upset.

You don't have to let contact be overwhelming. My dad calls me far too much. Daily, sometimes more than once a day. It's too much of course. He's retired and has too much time on his hands. So I just don't answer every time. He then assumes I'm busy, and that fine. If I went NC (which I'd never want to do) it would be the death of my parents. It's so cruel.

You do not have a free pass to treat your parents like shit just because they are your parents
I agree too. If you can't be respectful, best to limit contact but what I'm trying to get at is why this would happen in the first place, it just doesn't happen out of the blue, there will be a reason.

"there will be a reason."

Of course. But it is entirely possible that it might not be a good reason. The assumption on this thread is that the adult child is always in the right. Which is not true.

ILive yes but abuse comes in many forms, an overbearing, selfish and self-absorbed parent isn't healthy, the OP's parent sounds like this, no?
Sorry OP if I have this wrong.

I'm wondering something GinThief. All the magazines, cards and phone calls are all very nice and supportive. But could they also be a small part of the problem? In that, your dm is grieving for the lost relationship with your dsis. But she now gets an awful lot of attention from you because of her sadness. Perhaps this attention makes it harder for her to move on because she is afraid that if you think she no longer needs you, then you might withdraw too.

So she's desperately trying to hold on to you by being needy. Possible?

No, the adult child will not always be in the right but the way the parent handles this will make all the difference.

ilive you might be very fortunate in your family - sounds like you are, which is great.

It's not like for everyone and there can be a shitload going on under the surface.

the op wrote: My mum is not toxic but has traditional/older type views, very hard work, quite negative, high expectations and compares her life to everyone else. I think my sister (who is younger than me) needed to step away from it all. ....Younger sister stayed at home for longer so had a few extra years living with parents. I do know there were lots of arguments/disagreements which alienated sister from parents

The mother is 'very hard work' and it sounds like she expects the younger sister to behave in certain ways that she is not going to be flexible about. If that's insisting on good table manners, that's fine. If it's insisting that she calls the shots in all situations, it's not.

It does sound like there's been a lot of friction. Maybe the sister just needs time.

I'm nc with my mother. It's not because I'm "exceptionally cruel".

I had very little contact with my mum for a period earlier this year.
Please do not try to guilt your sister into talking to your mum, as suggested up thread.
The reason for my little contact was years of us not getting on, paired with her blatant disappointment of me and disapproval of pretty much anything I did.
I went home for my brothers 18th birthday party, and my sisters tried guilting me into speaking to my mum. Apparently she was upset my brother would be moving out, she was devastated I could care so little as to stop speaking to her. Not one single person thought about how it was affecting me. Going NC with a parent isn't something anyone takes lightly! I was suffering too. And everything said by my sisters just reinforced why I was having very little contact.
As it happens my mum eventually saw things from my point of view and apologised for the way she treated me. We don't have a great relationship, but we get on okay, speak about once a week, I expect much less of her in a mum type relationship and she does her best to hide her disapproval of me.

Imo if your mum wants to resolve things with your sister she needs to think about the reasons your sister went NC and acknowledge that something she has done has resulted in this.

Sadly I don't think there's anything you can do. It must be horrible being stuck in the middle

Unless there are really valid reasons for it, eg abuse, then this business of cutting your parents out of your lives (or to use the latest phrase of the moment 'No Contact') is one of the cruelest things a grownup child can inflict on their parents.

I'm proud to be part of a generation that was made of tougher stuff.
You fell out with your parents, you made up, you got on with it.

It's all part and parcel of being in a family environment.
By the time a person is in their twenties, they should be able to manage different types of relationships - even if they aren't all sweetness and light all the time.

People don't seem to have any backbone any more and are too quick to ditch relationships at the first sign of trouble.
Whether that be their marriages or their relationships with their parents.

As someone said upthread, there is always a reason. I believe this to be true. It is up to each of us to decide where our line is. For my parents it was the final straw when some financial misdeeds came to light. The person who did this has a history of doing this at least once before. Now as I descend into health problems, this same person has started doing the same to me. I don't find that acceptable and don't see how anyone could say NC is wrong.
In another case one mother/mother in law is constantly pushed in the face of the other side of the family. The relative of the family enduring this cant understand why the unfairness of this is not seen. The other mother is hated even though she herself has done nothing to cause such anger against her. It is now at the stage that people stay away because they cant bear the possibility of hearing more about that mother.
This being Christmas time people are feeling better that there will be no expectation or hope of the family and children visiting because it is known that they will yet again be at that mother's house. No invitation will be issued to be ignored or refused. This is many years standing and not a flash in the pan.
It is lack of thought and fairness that lead to this state of affairs. The disappointment is that it was not seen that the constant putting forward of one mother lead not only to NC but hatred of a woman who really did not earn that for herself. It was her child (adult) who caused it.
OP you are doing great with your mum. Please continue to do what you are doing. It may seem that you always hear about the absent sister but I am sure that your DM praises you to others,
It is hard to accept these situations and it is like a death but people who really died cant help that they died, those who are NC maybe could have helped the situation by noticing the difficulty.

I doubt if all these mothers are wrong all the time. I think it is when teenagers around 15 is and start going out more and mixing with more people and that they can change away from the family values.

GinThief when I read your post of Wed 09-Dec-15 11:34:46, I'm sorry but my reaction was 'I wouldn't want to be in contact with her either'. Your mother sounds extremely hard work, and completely self-absorbed. And I don't think that's just to do with the 'grieving', it sounds as if it predates your sister going NC.

"How do I set boundaries without upsetting her? I want to step back as it's now taking over my own life. I live along way from my parents so phone calls are main point of contact."
You really do need to set boundaries, don't you? Her calls when you are working, when she knows you are working - well, did I mention self-absorbed? And because of that self-absorption, I doubt you can do it without upsetting her.

So, you've asked her not to call when you're working (you mention you find that frustrating, I'm guessing your sister did too), and she continues to call. I would buy a new mobile with a new number and use that as your main mobile for work/friends. Do not give her the new number, keep her unaware of it. Switch off your 'old' mum-only mobile when working. Have an answering machine on your landline to screen calls. Switch your mum-only phone on when you finish work/wish to be available. Respond to any calls/texts received, reiterating to her that when you are working, you are working and that you are switching your phone off since she refuses to stop phoning you when you can't talk to her. Be firm. It will undoubtedly take many repetitions and possibly a few tantrums and attempts to guilt you. Do not give in to them, just repeat that you need to work and working from home does NOT mean you are 'available' - you're not, you are WORKING.

Only you can answer this question, and I'm not asking you to post your answer here, just to answer this to yourself - how would she react if you were to tell her that her behaviour towards you over the past year is damaging your relationship with you and making you want less contact with her?

Swallow what would you consider to be really valid reasons?

I'd imagine it's not a decision anyone takes lightly.

At the end of the day she will always be my mum. We don't get to pick and choose family so you have to learn to accept your parents/family for who they are. As well as being hard work she is also a lovely caring mum.

I am not going NC myself, we make the effort to see both our families when we can and will be travelling to see them over Christmas period.

I don't plan to discuss the situation with my sister. She is fully aware of mum's struggles from emails mum sent earlier in the year asking her "why" etc. Sister is an adult and can make her own decision on the NC. I have already suggested to my mum that she gives my sister time/space and hopefully situation will resolve.

I think I will need to get into a routine of not answering personal calls in work time, just because I work from home does not mean I don't have work to do.

we don't get to pick and choose family so you have to learn to accept your parents/family for who they are

It depends what they've done.

Yes, absolutely agree about the phone calls in work time, can you turn your phone or at least the ringer off, or do you need to take calls for work? Do you have fixed work hours so you can say that you are not available on certain days between certain times? Ignore texts too, but get back to her later, easier said than done I know. Perhaps make a little list of things you want / need to talk to her about when you call, so you can turn conversations about your sister to other subjects, even if it's just programmes she might have watched on TV or similar. You sound as though you are doing your best in a very difficult situation.

Is your mum on her own? Maybe the way to go is to find on a regular activity that you both like and try to do that at intervals you can manage. Eg visiting places of interest, cinema, theatre, gardens. Then you are giving your full attention on specific occasions and can be really firm about the phone calls which are interfering with work.

I can appreciate that she is really sad about what has happened but it's important that you don't get drawn in. It's perfectly legitimate to acknowledge her feelings but to then be able to say that you respect your sister's choice and are not going to take sides. And that sometimes you don't want to talk about it.