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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Think DD has just destroyed relationship with DH her dad. Final straw.

570 replies

Facefacts · 07/12/2015 00:12

After a long rocky period with DD 17, I thought things were getting better. Again, tonight, DD determined to get her own way. Wanted boyfriend to come over we said no as I had to be away all day and overnight, husband had to leave later as working away. So after I left mid afternoon she has massive argument with poor DH who is already having counselling (partly from previous rocky period as well as other things). She is so unsympathetic and uncaring and verbally very attacking. DH in pieces, DD just continued attack. And flounced off to boyfriends saying would be back for 11. Just arriving back now. Refused lift back and DH couldn't face scene if just went to fetch her. He now has two hour drive and has to be up early. He's broken and I'm fuming with her. She has a brilliant social life. Saw boyfriend 2 or 3 times in week. Nightclub Friday and friend stayed over Saturday. Don't know how this is going to go but we have been on edge of throwing her out before for stunts like this. Is this what we have to do to save DH from total breakdown. When she decides she is doing something there is no compromise, no care of the impact on others. It seems the more understanding and caring we are the more she takes. Someone please give me a plan to change this before she throws away a lovely home and family.

OP posts:
blindsider · 07/12/2015 12:08

Hang on the husband has PTSD? I missed this is he ex military or is it caused by his daughter.?

Some peoples reactions to this beggar belief and I really worry how the next generation are going to cope when their little darlings learn that the world doesn't actually revolve round them. :-/

josephwrightofderby · 07/12/2015 12:08

(I should make it clear - I am NOT siding with the daughter in saying 'it's not bullying'. I'm saying that this language isn't helpful in describing what's happening, and that we need a different terminology).

blindsider · 07/12/2015 12:08

Joseph - The DH hardly sounds 'omnipotent' in this scenario...

Goingtobeawesome · 07/12/2015 12:10

I have found the more I do for my kids the more unappreciated I feel. I said I'd do less. Kids didn't believe me as I'm too soft. Now I'm letting them make their own mistakes, their fault if no kit etc.

I'd be saying no to her every single time until she grows up. She sounds a spoilt madam who is also unpleasant. Things need to change.

CoteDAzur · 07/12/2015 12:17

" she dares act out and she's out on her ear and should SELL HER BODY FOR SEX?"

No, she "should" not. But she would possibly have to, if sleeping rough on the streets with no income and no skills.

If she is an adult and a young woman as some people on this thread seem to think, even expecting her to bring some man home to shag on her parents' bed when they are gone (no less), she can handle an honest talk about what life out on the streets is like if she forces her parents hands and gets kicked out.

"its not ideal" - Really? Hmm Not ideal is when a teenager doesn't come out of her room to politely say "Welcome Mrs Xxx" to a guest of her parents. Verbally abusing them, preventing them from leaving a room, breaking things in the house including a door, etc are so far gone beyond the line of "not ideal" and into the realm of severely troubling that I am wondering if we even live on the same planet.

We certainly don't seem to have the same ideas on family values and respect.

josephwrightofderby · 07/12/2015 12:17

blindsider - but he is, in the sense that structurally he holds all the cards. He can ground her, deprive her of just about anything. The situation was caused in the first place by the fact that he was exercising his authority to restrict his DD in what she was allowed to do. That structural authority remains, however shit he's feeling at a personal and emotional level. And that's the paradox of parenting.

Her behaviour is lacking in empathy and out of line - she's not behaving like a grown woman with responsibility and care for others. But then, she isn't a grown woman with responsibility, is she? Because if she were, this whole situation wouldn't even arise. And that's the paradox of the older teen!!

CoteDAzur · 07/12/2015 12:20

"I don't think you can bully a person who is omnipotent in your life"

Where do you see on this thread any clue that OP is omnipotent in her DD's life? From where I sit, it looks like her DD does whatever the hell she likes and gets verbally & physically abusive when seldom she gets "no" for an answer. This has been going on for years, from when she was 14.

OP and her DH don't seem to have much power or even authority on this girl at all.

PitPatKitKat · 07/12/2015 12:21

This all seems to be very much going down a route of who's to blame? That's never going to be productive.

I would think about both your DDs and your DHs situations/problems/MH issues separately, decide what they need and go down those roads. That will mean that both need to make changes, but these changes need to be made primarily in referenced to each individual's own happiness and well-being whilst being respectful and kind and loving to family members, not co-dependent responsibility.

For a start, don't make a teenager responsible for he dad's mental health, or see her behaviour as worse because she's not living up to that unrealistic responsibility. No-one can be responsible for someone else's mental health, it's totally exhausting and confusing to try to manage someone else's mental state.

josephwrightofderby · 07/12/2015 12:22

I think you might have cross posted with me Cote - see above.

Maryz · 07/12/2015 12:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Adelecarberry87 · 07/12/2015 12:26

I think alot of posters here are losing sight of the original post and over anaylsing the situation more than it needs to be, in effect going round in circles with one another.

blytheandsebastian · 07/12/2015 12:28

Don't let your dd know that you hold her responsible for her dad's mental health condition. That could really, really screw her up and would almost certainly not result in more stable behaviour.

If she has dreadful PMT, you need to seek proper help with that, and make allowances, while also supportively helping her to manage it appropriately.

If she is old enough to be left in the house alone overnight, she is old enough to go out in the evening if she wants to.

The was nothing to stop your dh staying in touch by text and checking she was OK while he was on the road.

You actually don't have the right to think 'we've done SO much for you that we have a right to demand that you do x', especially on the spur of there moment. Your dd will, quite rightly, not be thinking that way. She will look at the demand in isolation, deciding if it feels reasonable, or intrusive and unnecessarily controlling. Most posters here agree that they would find it a rather inappropriate command (not a request!), meaning that the majority of people here would also have put forward a protest of some kind, had you issued it to them. It never works to treat your teenager in a way that most adults would find disrespectful.

You would have had a problem with your dd protesting, regardless of how she did it, because you'd decided she owed you one and this was the moment to call in the debt. That's not fair. It's not the way to treat a 17 year old, especially if the request doesn't make a great deal of sense in the first place.

You need to stop being a martyr. Don't do so much for her that you will feel hard don't by if she refuses your 'requests'. Don't do so much for her that you think she owes you one. Accept that there are limitations on what you can dictate to a 17 year old. Stop lunging on your sword and catastrophising when there is a set back. There will always be friction, it's normal to an extent. Accept that she had a right to negotiate with you now and has a right to consider each instruction on its own merits as reasonable or otherwise. She has a right to disagree and be listened to; if you are trying to dictate to her and then justifying it with a guilt trip, you are not leaving room for her to express herself reasonably. A 17 year old who is treated like a 12 year old will react like a 12 year old sometimes.

Count your blessings. You haven't talked about physical risk. Drug abuse. Shop lifting. Teenage pregnancy. Street crime. Self harm. Drunkenness. Stealing from you. Staying out all night. Lying. Having wild parties in your home (or even just a boyfriend over) the minute your back is turned.

In a couple of years, she will be gone. When you make martyrish scenes- 'you don't have a choice about this after all we've done for you and don't say no because your sainted father will shatter', she will be able to avoid you. Make no mistake, it will drive her away.

FWIW, I think you and your dh both sound a bit drama-lama-ish and unself-aware about how easy it is to be emotionally manipulative. Nor surprising that your dd has learned the value of a histrionic scene. Although I agree that her behavior is not acceptable, you do sound provoking, which asking for trouble if you already know that she's suffering from bad PMT(which is often mistaken for signs of serious mental illness!). The fact that you completely overlooked the positives in this situation (she didn't lie to you, she did catch the bus home, she is trustworthy enough to be left overnight, she clearly still asks permission for a lot of things) suggests to me that your expectations may be sky-high, which is probably further pissing her off. Just because you have decided to be an Extra Helpful Parent doesn't actually mean that she has signed up to be the perfect teenager.

This 'peace of mind' idea is confusing. What's wrong with your minds? Why would it help you to know your daughter is in the house on her own? The world is not so dangerous that she will be in grave danger at her boyfriend's house/on the bus. If your dh has anxiety problems, he needs to keep it separate from his parenting. If you're saying that she should be particularly thoughtful because she's responsible for his anxiety issues, you are massively controlling and rather screwed up. No one should live as if they are responsible for their parent's mental health; forcing them to do so will probably result in them snapping and unhealthy co-dependency.

LizKeen · 07/12/2015 12:28

We certainly don't seem to have the same ideas on family values and respect.

Well yes, I don't believe telling a 17 year old who is clearly struggling to buck up her ideas or get out is acceptable. I am glad that we differ in ideas on family values and respect if that is what those terms mean to you.

blindsider · 07/12/2015 12:30

Joseph

[B]but he is, in the sense that structurally he holds all the cards. He can ground her, deprive her of just about anything[/B]

That is not my reading of it, she was grounded and went out anyway, she follows her father round the house berating him, it just doesn't resemble any household I grew up in or the one my kids did.

I am not suggesting kids should be fearful of their parents but a healthy dose of respect is no bad thing. I have heard kids telling their parents to fuck off etc. Mind boggling.

LizKeen · 07/12/2015 12:30

Excellent post blythe.

CoteDAzur · 07/12/2015 12:40

"A 17 year old who is treated like a 12 year old will react like a 12 year old sometimes. "

What part of seeing her boyfriend of 1 week 2-3 times since then, going out clubbing on Friday night, and going off to boyfriend's home until 11 PM sounds to you like this girl is being treated like a 12yo?

CoteDAzur · 07/12/2015 12:47

"I don't believe telling a 17 year old who is clearly struggling to buck up her ideas or get out is acceptable"

Bless. So you think it is the 17yo who hurls verbal abuse at her parents, prevents them from leaving the room, and breaks stuff including a door who is struggling.

OP is the one who is struggling. Their relationship has no sign of parental authority and she admittedly gives in to the vast majority of her DD's demands to avoid confrontation.

At the very least, they need to sit down with her and have a very serious talk about what normal behaviour is in a family environment and how she can take her chances out on the real world if she is not willing to treat her parents with respect.

Facefacts · 07/12/2015 12:49

You've summed it up very well for me. Thank you. And those posters who say we are in control because we can ground her haven't had to deal with a child climbing out of a window or trying to get out of a moving car.

OP posts:
Facefacts · 07/12/2015 12:54

And we haven't told her she is responsible for her dads mental condition (even though she partly is). Just asked her to be thoughtful because Dad is having a hard time at the moment. She knows the other reasons for him struggling. Haven't told her it is PTSD. Asked her to be considerate to her Dad and others in the family.

OP posts:
pocketsaviour · 07/12/2015 12:55

As for my DH he is miles away from being controlling and is getting help, for PTSD partly caused or certainly made worse by her behaviour in past.

Are you fucking serious?? You're blaming your daughter for your husband's mental health condition?

Listen I have PTSD, caused by repeatedly being sexually assaulted as a child. If your husband is claiming he has PTSD caused by your daughter being cheeky or disrespectful, I think my head might just explode.

blytheandsebastian · 07/12/2015 12:56

cote I didn't find any of the things you mention to be treating her like a twelve year old. I find the part I mentioned to be treating her like a twelve year old. And regarding the 'bless'. Do you often try to win arguments with teenagers using ridicule/sarcasm, or is it just on mumsnet?

mix56 · 07/12/2015 12:56

She sounds very manipulative & aggressive. How much dope is she smoking?

blytheandsebastian · 07/12/2015 12:57

She is not partly responsible for her father's condition, and will be well aware that you think she partly is.

If you want to avoid scenes, you know how to do it. Don't expect her to pander to you because you want 'peace of mind'. Straighten out your boundaries and allow her to do the same.

LizKeen · 07/12/2015 13:01

OP is the one who is struggling. Their relationship has no sign of parental authority and she admittedly gives in to the vast majority of her DD's demands to avoid confrontation.

The OP is the parent. If there is a lack of parental authority then that is not the daughters fault.

Hmm at your patronising comments. I don't need to patronise other posters to get my point across. Sorry that you feel you do.

blytheandsebastian · 07/12/2015 13:01

And stop being so over-dramatic! If your DH is having any cognitive therapy at all, he will be aware that it makes a situation much more unstable if you constantly talk about everything going to hell in a handcart. Teenagers are difficult, presumably you knew this when you were signing up to parenthood. Whatever they are like, they didn't ask to be born and have given you many years of happiness in exchange for the worry and difficulties. I would personally hate to be confined to a house with someone who made dictatorial, meaningless demands couched as requests, then claimed to be too fragile to talk about it.