How do I work out the problem?

[Crackerjack9]

Hello, NC for this one.

I'm 35, I've been married for 10 years and have three children - one toddler and two in KS1.

The marriage has never been great, although before we got married it was great and on a basic level we've always adored each other, while both having issues we needed to work through.

We hit a very rough time just over 4 years ago, when DH left for 3 months and was seeing another woman.

Since then we've muddled along, pretty much ok, but now things are bad again. I am walking on eggshells constantly, and DH says he is also, although to me it feels as though he is angry with me all the time, and I feel like I am trying to avoid confrontation, though he sees me as constantly picking at him.

We both want to make things work, but I am at a bit of a loss because I genuinely don't know if I am the problem. I get told I am. I can see some things I do that aren't good, and I see my parents do the same things so I believe I do them. DH has told me I'm not a normal person and can't have a proper relationship, and I think it may be true. But I don't think that's the whole story.

It's a big mess. Relate is out as, while we don't qualify for reduced costs, for various reasons we genuinely can't afford it. In any case, we went years ago and didn't find it helpful.

How can we start to pick through the mess?

Thanks for any help.

He will always say you are worse than him. Its the blame game. Projection. We are all responsible for our own words and actions. We end up being ground down as we become submissive. He is playing the victim when that is far from the truth.

Again cross post. HE is playing the victim role when the real victim is YOU.

Seriously, get out.

Sod the house and the 'things'. Get police protection, get Women's aid and social services behind you, and get your kids the fuck out before he kills you.

I once got an injunction out against another ex (yep I sure do pick um). The police take these things extremely seriously. You will be supported and protected by others.

You could be the good wife or the bad wife. Its no excuse for violence towards another. Wrong wrong wrong.

Yeah.
I suppose I don't want to 'write him off' because he has changed quite significantly over the last ten years and he's done it for me. He used to lie all the time and he doesn't now. He used to be impossible to calm down and now he can calm down a bit.

Oh jeez that sounds si stupid.

But is it normal to think 'this only happens to other people. X isn't an abuser because he's a real person who loves me' etc etc?

Anyway, I'm going to bed. Will process all this.

Yes unfortunately so. People only change for themselves and not for others. My ex told me I was bipolar and HAD to attend counselling. I worked with a counsellor and solved some of MY issues, not the ones he thought I had. I think I came out of it a different, less submissive person. One who wasnt so clingy, who could cope when he was away working. I can only assume the ex didnt like this do it was part of the reason he left. I was standing up to him, being my own person and I had changed. So he sought someone else?! Go figure that one.

Oh my god, OP, the more we learn the worse it gets. He has already been physically violent and you are in real danger. Please get help ASAP.

OP: even if you can't get your head round him being the 'bad guy' and you being a victim, you still know deep down that this relationship has to end, before he hurts you again. You can be free of him. Imagine what that would feel like.

OP I hope you get a good rest.

But is it normal to think 'this only happens to other people. X isn't an abuser because he's a real person who loves me' etc etc?

Yes, it is absolutely normal. Especially since you've spent the last 10 years with him telling you that he's totally reasonable and it's you who are the abusive one.

I think you need to be very careful now, because leaving an abuser can be the most dangerous time. Please make sure you're logging off MN, clearing cookies, not saving any passwords, etc.

Do you think you would feel up to ringing Womens Aid for advice? They can help you make a plan to leave safely.

You cannot stay with this man. He is a danger to you and to your children. You are minimising his violence, which is understandable because he's told you it's normal and it's your fault. But please, you have to stop minimising. No adult should EVER hit you, push you, shove you, keep you from leaving a room, put their hand across your mouth. All of these things are massive danger signs. And eventually he will do it in front of the kids, and then he'll do it to the kids. Men like this don't stop.

Please honey, listen to what everyone is saying. This man is seriously abusing you. Its not you, its him, he sounds like a fucking lunatic to me. You need to get the hell away from him, and fast before he kills you, or destroys you mentally.

Thanks guys. I need to take a day or two to process, will update then.

It sounds as if, despite the acrimonious atmosphere between you, you love him dearly. From an external point of view, it feels like you are making excuses for his behaviour so that you can justify staying with him. It's admirable that you are prepared to sacrifice your self esteem for this person, but you are losing your strength this way.

Whether you stay with this person or not, you need to redirect the energy you are ploughing into maintaining the illusion that you are responsible for his choices of behaviour. You need to stop making excuses for him and start making them for yourself. Forgive yourself for your depression. Forgive yourself for having a partner that cheated on you.

You wouldn't judge anyone as harshly as you have judged yourself, as is evident from the reams of patience you are dredging up for him.

Honestly, I think this is about a person who has fallen out of love with herself. That's what you need to work on. Bollocks to him. You are more important.

He sounds dangerous. Please consider seeking advice from a womens organisation.

Hope you are ok Cracker

Been thinking of you. Don't feel under pressure. Come back and tell us how you are doing xx

How are you doing OP?

Hello all. Thanks for the support and sorry for the long delay. Processing this has taken a long time.
I spoke to my OH about a week ago and told him I was no longer going to tolerate x/y/z happening in our relationship. Obviously I was still somewhat in denial at this point!!! He was cross at first, but not majorly so, and we agreed that we would try to change things, more discussion of issues, less anger on his part.
At first this seemed ok. I wasn't trying to get back to hearts and flowers, just be able to coexist. But it became clear after the first few days that what he had meant by the agreement was that he would now explain, in patronising, cold detail, exactly what I was doing to upset him, so I could then change it. Trouble is, most of his efforts have been directed at things that are just part of me as a person and not particularly objectionable either.
I've become sick of treading carefully around him, and him being an arse anyway. He is often vile all day and has suddenly started saying he is depressed.
I've started just being myself and not apologising for it. On Saturday, when he was casually nasty, I was nasty back...well not nasty, just cold. I got abuse for it. He gave me a hug on Saturday night and said 'are we going to be ok?' in a tearful voice...after beingrevolting to me all day. I said 'I don't know, but I love you'...he was furious.
Anyway, I'm sick of my smallest 'failings' arousing total contempt and him thinking as long as he doesn't shout or swear I'm happy for him to say whatever he likes to me.
This morning he said something really unpleasant in front of the kids and I said 'please could you stop speaking to me with such disdain'.
He hit the roof. How dare I criticise him all the time? How dare I start an argument in front of the children? How dare I subject them to my insanity and my bullying behaviour. Wasn't it ironic that since our discussion about anger I was more angry than I'd ever been before? Why can't I see what I'm really like? Why did I start criticising him and then just switch off when he's FUCKING TRYING TO TALK TO ME? Why can't I see that I'm a fucking useless lump and a bully? Why am I doing this in front of the kids? Why am I not answering his FUCKING QUESTIONS? Who is at fault, here, child x?

I told him I felt we would get nowhere discussing this now and we needed to have a serious discussion later. He started telling the kids I was kicking him out. I felt like a terrible mother because I felt if I left the room, he'd follow me and I'd have no escape. I ignored him while he stood over us in silence for 20 minutes. I was scared to clip one of my child's fingernails in case it incurred his criticism.

Got to go, he's just come back.

Thanks for the update, OP. It sounds like you have started to be more assertive which is great, although of course he doesn't like it. Please be aware that he might escalate the abuse if he senses that you're thinking about leaving. So focus on keeping yourself as safe as possible.

Have you spoken to Women's Aid yet? If not please call them as soon as you get chance. The number is 0808 2000 247 and it's open 24 hours.

Good luck.

He is massively abusive.
And I'm really sorry but no-one is here is going to suggest keeping yourself and your poor DC in such a horrible abusive atmosphere. It's not OK.
YOU don't need to put up with this.
Your DC certainly shouldn't be put in this situation.
I can guarantee your children will be so much happier away from this abusive prick of a father.
They will grow and flourish and you'll be astounded and extremely sorry you didn't do it soon.
Please contact Womens Aid and get away from this nasty piece of work.

Thanks guys. We've just had a massive row and apparently HE is leaving ME because I hate him and am manipulative and selfish.
I haven't a clue what to do about finances. I've just spoken to a couple of charities who say because we own a house I won't get any help, but we have a tenant in the house for the next 12 months and we have 15k of debt, so I will apparently be looking at an income of just CTC, maintenance and child benefit plus whatever I can earn with a just two year old and two other kids in tow, until I can sell the house...plus I have to go out of pocket on my mortgage each month. I can't see how that's possible in any way.

Which charities have you spoken to? I suggest you get all the paperwork you can (including the tenancy agreement if you have one) and go to the CAB. You could also ask Women's Aid which solicitors they recommend and get a free half hour with one of them.

If you're not working at the moment maybe you could look at your employment and childcare options?

I spoke to CAP and the CAB. They told me I have no benefit options and that, until I can sell the house, I will be receiving £800 for me and my 3 children, plus whatever maintenance I get from OH.
My youngest would get a nursery place 15h weekly from January. I wouldn't be entitled to reductions on additional hours until selling the house.

And the nursery place would be term time only.

Do you know how much your husband earns? If so you can work how much child maintenance he will have to pay.

Did you talk to them about your tenant and the possibility of selling the house before the 12 month tenancy is up? It might be possible which is why I think getting a bit of legal advice could be helpful.