How do I work out the problem?

[Crackerjack9]

Hello, NC for this one.

I'm 35, I've been married for 10 years and have three children - one toddler and two in KS1.

The marriage has never been great, although before we got married it was great and on a basic level we've always adored each other, while both having issues we needed to work through.

We hit a very rough time just over 4 years ago, when DH left for 3 months and was seeing another woman.

Since then we've muddled along, pretty much ok, but now things are bad again. I am walking on eggshells constantly, and DH says he is also, although to me it feels as though he is angry with me all the time, and I feel like I am trying to avoid confrontation, though he sees me as constantly picking at him.

We both want to make things work, but I am at a bit of a loss because I genuinely don't know if I am the problem. I get told I am. I can see some things I do that aren't good, and I see my parents do the same things so I believe I do them. DH has told me I'm not a normal person and can't have a proper relationship, and I think it may be true. But I don't think that's the whole story.

It's a big mess. Relate is out as, while we don't qualify for reduced costs, for various reasons we genuinely can't afford it. In any case, we went years ago and didn't find it helpful.

How can we start to pick through the mess?

Thanks for any help.

Gosh I was there 2 years ago... knowing his behaviour was wrong but disliking mine too, being told I was wrong in the head, slating my family and saying I was just like them, I couldn't look him in the eye and have a conversation I literally couldn't speak, the pressure would build and then I'd row and say horrible angry nasty things and the circle would start again.
The thing is, I was right to doubt it all. His behaviour was wrong, and so was mine. I left and went to counselling, realised I have a problem with co-dependent behaviour in relationships due to growing up in an enmeshed family unit, and joined a CoDA support group.
I'm still learning but am in such a better place. Ex has also realised he suffers with depression and is due to start counselling soon.
We get on a lot better now and the DC are very happy.
You can't do anything about him but you can seek support for yourself. I'm not sure how it would work whilst still remaining in the relationship, you might need a 'break' at least, certainly some space.

Just read your update, you can't live like that OP. I really think you should split you're living in a nightmare at the moment.
He can sort himself out, or not, you need to concentrate on yourself for the benefit of you and your DC.

AnxietyUK can also help arrange private counselling on a sliding scale which can make it more affordable.

Vent away. We often come to our own conclusions about things when we have some space to put our thoughts in order. What do you think you were being out of order about though? Worrying about finances?

OP, how were things in those 3 months when he went away? I really think you'd be better off without him.

In the situation you described above, my DH would just help me look for the thing, and make a joke about it. It definitely isn't you. You were not being out of order.

Keep venting. You're in a 'can't see the woods for the trees' place where the detail is overwhelming. Maybe we can help you see for yourself that this is an awful way to live, and you can get out.

Hi cracker I don't know whether this has been mentioned or you have tried but if you go to your GP and talk about this he/she may point you in the direction of a good local counselling service which is NHS run i.e. free. I've tried the Relate route, paid for the sessions, and found them to be worth every penny. You can actually suggest how much to pay if you are struggling financially. Just a thought or two... Best wishes.

This morning a tiny button fell off the side of my phone. I kind of just expected him to help me look (unreasonable of me)

Are you saying that you think you were unreasonable? to ask your spouse to help you look for something? Or is that just something he said?

DH has said he wishes I could see myself how I really am.

This is such a common thing for abusers to say, whether partner/spouse or parent. "If your friends knew what you were really like, they'd drop you like a brick." "Nobody knows what I have to put up with."

I really strongly suggest having a read of Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. It's available on Kindle. If money is a problem, please send me a PM and I'll see if I can help.

You deserve so much more than this.

Agreed pocket. I had that one. His mother always said "please don't leave him" and his response was "well she doesn't really know you". In the end they both laid into me. It's a hard place to get out of, constant self-blame. Hopefully I/we will get there one day cracker and others.

In the three months he was away I was very upset and constantly trying to 'win' him back, but in terms of parenting and day to day life everything went well.

Looking back now with some clarity, I can see that he behaved very poorly while he was away, and yet I still made excuses for him. Primarily that everything that had gone wrong had been my fault, that I could only see that after the fact, that I would change etc.

He was depressed and in my mind that was also my fault. He continued spending out of our joint account, excessively. He wasn't working. He would come back here for a couple of days, then go off back to his friend's house in a different part of the country. At that point, he hadn't told me he was seeing someone else. I guessed because he used to be in contact a lot during the week and then drop out of contact at the weekends. But he denied it, became angry with me for asking, and I was so desperate for him to come back that I just hoped if I improved enough he'd come back.

And he did. It sounds so pathetic now. I doubt I'd behave like that again, but I'm a different person now.

About six months later, he left his Facebook logged in and I found messages between them. The fact I'd been correct in my belief wasn't a surprise, but the level of love in the messages was. I raised the matter with him, but was met with anger. This was a long time ago, he said, if I didn't move past it, we'd never be able to have a relationship, it happened when he'd left me so it wasn't cheating. Although, certainly the first time they were together we WERE still together and he told me he was spending a weekend away with his friend. But, apparently that was still my fault as we weren't getting on. He would only cheat IF the relationship was in a bad way...and let's guess whose fault that would be?

God, I can't believe I thought all this was ok. I mean, it upset me, but that was ok because I'd been unreasonable?!?!?

Still, it was a long time ago and he has changed a lot of aspects of his behaviour since. I don't think he lies, he does make an effort...but on a basic level his attitude is still the same.

I feel as though if he has an issue with me, I get yelled at. If I have an issue (which I almost never, ever dare to do), somehow I am still the one who gets yelled at. And yet I am apparently the unreasonable, critical partner who has to be tiptoed around.

Oh cracker you are being blamed for something that he did. Typical projection. It was your fault that he went off with OW, it was your fault that he asked him questions. I suppose a type of EA in which you felt that you were and still are to blame. I could see where my other half was coming from in so much as I was the one who flirted with another. It was boredom, neglect, whatever but it happened. He neglected to see all the things he had done wrong, the fact that I told the truth about the situation.

It was a case of do as I say not do as I do. His endless texts to his ex, sometimes about sex toys; he went to Paris to meet up with one ex; he met up with an ex who apparently he hated; he spent a night in a hotel with an ex and only told me about it when he was there, in the same room as her etc etc. He was absolutely blameless. Even when he left he accused me of being with the OM?! I was devastated and at my parents and anyway what right did he have to know where I was or who I was with? He left me. I was called a slut and he was the one having the affair. When he left he said that he had done exactly as I had, spoken to another and something nearly happened. Turns out something did happen and he now lives with her. All projection over the years. It builds up, wears you down.

My ex refused counselling. Said he had trust issues and didn't want them to come out during a session. I feel life would have been far different if we had attended counselling together. We may have stayed together or if not, I wouldn't feel so much to blame. You really need someone to mediate. On here is good to vent but counsellors really do know what they are talking about and are unbiased.

I'm not surprised you are taking naps to cope with the stress you are feeling, it's the equivalent of an emotional war zone that you are living in.
It's not good for you.

read this thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2268977-The-Abuser-Profiles
it summarises the first points of the Lundy book

OMG thanks nettle. I read a lot on the net when the ex left but never any of this. He was a combination of a water torturer and the victim. A gaslighter - a word I only heard of in all of my (then) 38 years (and I'm an English graduate and film fanatic) after he left. He left telling me I was emotionally defunct...

Be strong cracker.

Omg. I have only read a tiny bit and it resonates so much. The bit about how every argument becomes about right v wrong and intelligence v stupidity. I am shaking. I have to go actually look after my DC but will come back and keep reading once they're in bed. Thank you xxx

It sounds like the scales are falling from your eyes with a vengeance, Cracker. It's a strange feeling, isn't it? hang in there.

You never knew you had anxiety problems until you met your DH - coincidence? I doubt it, ditch the man and you are likely to realise that you are as 'normal' as the rest of us. It will be him that's left having the problems.
You can't quite see it all yet, hopefully soon you will realise that he has done a number on you for years. The only thing that may set you apart from others who are not in this situation, is that it would of been reasonable to have left him years ago, easy to see when not in the situation.
You have been caught in a world in where the blame lies has become all that matters, and been convinced successfully on numerous occasions, that it lies with you. Remember, often blame is NOT important eg. cheating - an act that is heinous on its own to not need blame as there is no valid excuse he could give. Being nasty and shouting at people in every day life - not acceptable, whatever the reason. So much of his behaviour where apportioning blame does not excuse his acts.

My God. My husband IS Mr Right from that list. I can't believe it.

It makes sense in a way. His parents had an incredibly acrimonious relationship until they divorced when he was 17. I am talking arguments lasting for days. My DH as a young child being woken in the night to say who was right.

I've always thought from his descriptions that the situation was more complicated than he describes it, which is as his mother being a nightmare and his dad just being innocent in every way.

I feel a lot better to know that, although I do have issues, I'm not entirely causing all this myself. It makes me feel less low.

The daft thing is that I'm still questioning whether I've done this to him and whether I'm so deluded I'm misreading the whole situation.

Every single one of your replies is so kind and insightful. I truly appreciate them. Sorry that I haven't replied individually...I'm just processing things. No idea how I shall proceed.

"Not a normal person" - oh mate. You sound normal to me. Your man's behaviour on the other hand... not so much. Please don't let him make you doubt yourself. I have never ever posted on this board, there's wisdom here way beyond mine, but I couldn't let that one pass. A close family member was in a decades long relationship like yours, not any longer, but what she went through was so awful. Sorry I haven't helped. Just wanted to say he's twisting words and facts here.

You have been trained to believe he is always right and you have done this to him It will take a while to retrain yourself.

I seriously doubt you could misread the whole situation so badly that the whole of one of the standard abuser profiles completely matches your DH.

I didn't realise when we got together that I had serious issues with anxiety, low self esteem and depression.
That's because you did not have those issues until you started a relationship with an abusive man. He created those issues. They'll probably go away when he goes away for good, because that's not actually what you are like.

Try this analogy. My head hurts if someone beats me over the head with a stick. I didn't know I had a headache problem until I started spending time with someone who beats me over the head with a stick. The person went away for a bit but I kept the stick and beat myself over the head with it. My headache didn't improve. What can I do about my problem with headaches?

Get rid of the fella with the stick, chuck the stick out along with him and you'll soon be be rid of the headache and back to normal.

Thank you. I read about gaslighting some time ago and one thing in particular stuck out. My DH used to be in the military.
He had always said he wanted to leave after x number of years, and so he did.
During an argument several years ago, he told me he had actually wanted to stay in the military, had told me this and I had forced him to leave, thereby ruining his career.

This never happened. I am as sure as I can be of anything that it didn't. That isn't actually very sure because I wonder if I'm so selfish that I just wasn't listening...but I'm pretty certain he's just made it up. I don't know if he believes it himself or not, but he's raised it a number of times since

Hey cracker, glad to see you're doing reasonably okay.

Re gaslighting - my ex wouldn't return from work late and then say "I told you I was working late" or I would ask him something and his response would be "Ive already told you". Thing is I have a memory like an elephant so rarely if ever forget anything, down to the tiniest of details. It made me feel like I was going mad. He was probably actually telling the OW?! I know all this but yet think the issue was me? I must be crazy.

City that sounds familiar! my memory is like yours, but I have learned not to say 'that's not what I said' etc as I am accused of lying, twisting things or remembering wrongly.

The reason I hate discussing stuff is mainly that it NEVER ends well for me. Well would be listening to each other, trying to see where each of us is coming from even if we didn't actually agree. But it always ends with him.shouting and me trying to escape from the argument. If I try really hard to engage we can usually come to some kind of agreement if I accept more 'blame' than I feel.

I am not upset because I don't really care any more what he thinks or does. On a practical level, I just want to know what to do now.