How do I work out the problem?

[Crackerjack9]

Hello, NC for this one.

I'm 35, I've been married for 10 years and have three children - one toddler and two in KS1.

The marriage has never been great, although before we got married it was great and on a basic level we've always adored each other, while both having issues we needed to work through.

We hit a very rough time just over 4 years ago, when DH left for 3 months and was seeing another woman.

Since then we've muddled along, pretty much ok, but now things are bad again. I am walking on eggshells constantly, and DH says he is also, although to me it feels as though he is angry with me all the time, and I feel like I am trying to avoid confrontation, though he sees me as constantly picking at him.

We both want to make things work, but I am at a bit of a loss because I genuinely don't know if I am the problem. I get told I am. I can see some things I do that aren't good, and I see my parents do the same things so I believe I do them. DH has told me I'm not a normal person and can't have a proper relationship, and I think it may be true. But I don't think that's the whole story.

It's a big mess. Relate is out as, while we don't qualify for reduced costs, for various reasons we genuinely can't afford it. In any case, we went years ago and didn't find it helpful.

How can we start to pick through the mess?

Thanks for any help.

Of course it's completely normal to raise problems, everyone has problems- but in a healthy relationship you can discuss them together, talk about your views and feelings, listen to your partner's, and come to solutions or compromises, without being nasty to each other about it.

Thanks guys. I am very confused. I am the person who is very hard to live with, and DH is the guy who has been so generous to me for years and is now finding it hard to cope because I am so rotten.

That is the accepted view of our relationship.

I feel sick because it absolutely fits that the reality is very different, but I still don't accept it.

I feel like I am betraying my DH by even thinking these things.

There's a part of me, however, that feels like it can breathe for the first time in years because I might not really be as terrible as I thought, and that even if I am, perhaps I wouldn't deserve to be written off anyway.

I expected to come here and learn that he was right, that I had something wrong with me that meant I was too selfish to be a wife or mother, and that I had a horrible mental illness that meant I couldn't understand that or see what I was really like.

"however, that feels like it can breathe for the first time in years because I might not really be as terrible as I thought, and that even if I am, perhaps I wouldn't deserve to be written off anyway."

Please listen to that part of you! The other part, the part that feels guilty and confused, is a result of the years of abuse and conditioning you have endured from him. It will take some time, and professional help, to put those feelings behind you, but you can and will get there.

You poor love.

Something worth bearing in mind, the narc/bully/abuser rarely worries that they might be a narc/bully/abuser, or about the effects of their behaviour on others. That alone shouts 'IT'S NOT YOU'

Take a deep breath, don't make any sudden moves, detach and observe, get your ducks in a row.

Keep talking here. We've mostly all been there.

Thank you. I have been observing him somewhat coldly all day. After another angry comment from him, which normally I would ignore, I spoke up calmly but firmly and asked him to stop speaking to me in such an angry tone, and if he had a problem just to tell me what it was please.
Of course, it was an idiotic move. It ended with him standing over me, screaming and swearing, telling me the way I don't raise my voice when I argue (I used to, but haven't for years) isn't normal. When I continued stating my case he then went very calm which is a new one. He said any problems I have are all in my head. That I am the one telling him how to think. That I won't ever admit to the slightest fault.
And I can't argue with it. I mean, he accuses me of being hyper critical all the time. It upsets me because, no matter how much I explain to him that I wasn't doing what he accused me of, he insists I am doing it, perhaps subconsciously.

And that's basically what I've just said to him, because he is insisting he hasn't had an angry thought towards me all day, that it's completely in my head. Is no one an abuser? Is it ME who is abusive? Or both of us? Or just him?

I think I am actually crazy because nothing is clear.

He is abusive. He is abusive. He is abusive.

Stop listening to him and start listening to us.

If you don't believe us, talk to a sensible friend or relative. Call Women's Aid. Talk to a counsellor. All of these people will say the same as us: he is abusive. It's him, not you.

" I spoke up calmly but firmly and asked him to stop speaking to me in such an angry tone, and if he had a problem just to tell me what it was please."

By the way, this is not a stupid thing to do. It's a perfectly normal, sensible, assertive thing to do. But he doesn't want you to be assertive. Hence escalating the abuse.

Thanks lila. That's eye opening, for me anyway. I was constantly assessing whether I was at fault towards the end of the relationship and beyond. Even now I struggle when dealing with anyone ie always feel the need to adjust my behaviour. Will get there one day.

you don't need to justify separating to him or others. Being unhappy with him is a good enough reason.

We all think he is abusive, and you are not the things he says you are, but others' opinions of him, you or your relationship don't matter either.

If he has an "anger management problem" does this cause him problems at work, with friends, other family? Or does he save it for you?

He is angry about a lot of things. He considers himself more intelligent than most people, and since his IQ is around 150, he actually is. He considers himself very rational. He isn't.
He is more concerned than I think is reasonable that others might believe him to be 'the bad guy' if we split.
He hates almost all of my friends. Previously I have felt this is a sign that I attract friends who, like me, are unusually messed up...now I wonder if that's really true. In any case, shouldn't he have enough respect for me not to make it clear to my friends that he is angry with them (usually because he feels they have criticised him).
He says that because he is from overseas and I am a reserved Brit, he's simply more assertive than I am used to.
I have suggested to him, long ago, that he can be misogynistic and bully me, he was outraged and very, very upset that anyone could think that of him. He said I was the bully.
I am starting to wonder about little things. I never just sit and watch TV. I never have, I always do something else at the same time like read, look at my phone, crafts, ironing, meal planning etc. Lately it is very important to him that we agree on a programme to watch. He mocks my favourite shows and so I choose one from his list, some of which I also like. But if I do anything other than give my full attention to the screen, he gets angry and insists on turning off the show and acts hurt and offended. I ask him why it matters, etc etc, a two hour shouting session ensues from him.
That's tiny, not important, but it's every day, over and over. But I still believe him when he tells me I am the unreasonable one.

Two hours of being shouted at for not being interested in the same tv programme daily would be pretty important to most people. My boyfriend might suggest we watch a programme, if I'm not interested he'll either suggest something else that I like more, or we could do something else together like play a game, or he could watch the programme whilst I read next to him or whatever. He would never mock what I liked, force me to watch what he wanted and then tantrum and shout at me if I wasn't interested. I literally cannot fathom him acting like that. Again, I'm not holding my own relationship up as some kind of perfection just showing you the contrast with what most of us would consider normal behaviour.

I see it as unimportant because in the scheme of the rows we have, it's a tiny problem for him compared to others, but it's symptomatic. I accept it because...well, I don't know. I suppose because with many things I do believe him that I am disrespectful etc, so while I don't think I'm disrespectful to go through a recipe book while we watch TV, I can see that I may be wrong or that, because I am generally disrespectful in other parts of life, this may annoy him by extension.

But that's actually ridiculous, isn't it? I wouldn't even notice if he was on his phone or whatever. And, if one of my shows were on, he would be, although I don't rend to watch them when he's there.

Oh ffs

Why do you stay in the room while someone shouts at you for two hours?

Why did you continue the conversation with him today when he stood over you screaming and swearing?

Normal behaviour is to leave the situation as soon as there is aggression. I can't imagine staying within earshot of someone shouting at me for more than five minutes.

As a general rule of thumb for life, when conversation has descended to shouting nothing can be resolved, only escalated, so there is no point in being there, only danger.

I'm not allowed to leave as that is a sign I don't 'give a shit ' about him and his feelings. If I try to leave, he follows me, blocks my path or, on occasion, physically grabs me. I think this is where the other ways of escape come in for me...not feeling able to make eye contact or to respond. He says it's symptomatic of my unhealthy way of arguing and that it was this that caused part of his anger problem m

But I don't particularly want to argue, just discuss. I'm not big on who is right and wrong.

Eh? Your "unhealthy way of arguing" (what the flip is that when its at home anyway) caused his anger problem? On what universe does that make any sense?

You've just described significant acts of abuse Cracker. I'm so sorry you're in this situation.

If he tried that behaviour in a work situation what do you think would happen?

You need to get out. This is horrendous. Even if (and I don't believe it for a second) it's you, he STILL isn't allowed to treat you like this.

Please don't think I'm exaggerating when I say you are in danger. Standing up to him is going to put you in more danger.

Hes aggressive, and already crossing red lines by blocking your path or grabbing you.

How soon can you leave? Can you get in touch with women's aid? Can you get a GP appointment and hand them this thread?

He'd be sacked, of course. Or prosecuted. Once he got a knife and stood over me with it shouting and shouting at me to stab him. He knew I wanted to, he said. I was just terrified someone was going to get stabbed by accident.

I hit him once, 8 years ago. Slapped his face. He has smashed the wall, given me a few nose bleeds etc. He had stopped all that but things have got worse again. He held his hand over my face recently to stop me speaking. I couldn't breathe, he didn't realise because my nose was uncovered, but I really couldn't get any air in as my head was pushed back at an odd angle.

Sorry cracker but please get the fuck out of there before it all turns physical. There is loads of support out there. I only suffered minimal abuse and one phyiscal bout of violence so compared to what you're enduring... Go before your safety is compromised.

But he says because I slapped him once, I am just as bad.

And until now I believed that.

Cross post... As you were typing your message I was typing the one re violence. Nuff said. Get out of there.

I just don't think it's that bad. Because he minimises it and until this point he's set the tone for how our relationship is defined.

And I am not a good wife.

My God. I never thought of myself as a victim in any way but I really am, aren't I?