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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I have destroyed my own tangled web of confusion

191 replies

spidergurl · 11/10/2015 18:11

WARNING: This is going to be long, so thank you very much to whoever reads all the way through. And please make sure you're comfy before you start ;-)

I (20s) met him (40s, let's call him Tom) last November. We went out together twice and even though I liked him, our chemistry was amazing and the kissing wonderful, I was going through some kind of existential crisis in which I was questioning everything about my life, and I vanished from his. Poor, I know.

In July, I felt I was getting back on track and moved to his part of town. After eight months of zero romance, not even so much as a kiss, I had met another guy who I had very casually started seeing. Yet I sent Tom a message apologising for having disappeared and asked if I could buy him a drink.
I was beginning to feel better about life and I was enjoying getting back into dating. That same night, I went back to his house and slept with him. It was wonderful and I was reminded just how much this guy made me laugh, just how well we clicked. That morning as we were having breakfast, he got a text, which he ignored, then a call, which he ignored, then his doorbell rang, and when he ignored THAT there was the sound of a key in the door. He rushed down to 'sort it out'. Turns out he'd been seeing this married woman (had given her a key to go to the shop and back the week previously and had forgotten she still had it). At this stage I wasn't emotionally involved with him and could offer him some advice and an ear. I asked whether he loved her, and he said 'it's not that simple'.

Our relationship progressed nicely over the next two or three weeks. It was now early August. I was still seeing the other guy, too. Things with both had progressed to the stage where I didn't think it was right to be seeing two men anymore. I spoke to both of them individually about it, and Tom was pissed off that I'd been continuing to see this other guy. Personally I felt that we didn't feel like a couple and it was such early days that there wasn't much wrong with dating other people - especially since there was the married woman scenario, which sort of made me think him a little hypocritical.
From early August to early September, we continued seeing each other twice a week. We loved spending time together, never a dull moment, so in sync with each other. But I should mention that this is set against a backdrop of quite a lot of alcohol consumed (both of us), and very regular cocaine use (him). As soon as I started to feel emotionally involved, I started 'acting up', by which I mean I became oversensitive and started walking off on a regular basis. I suppose deep inside I was insecure about where we stood. Every now and then when his phone would go off near me, I'd instinctively look down and see he'd received a message from the married woman. Obviously I never read the messages, and he reassured me that she'd moved and they were just friends (he did see her at a festival in August, and there was the niggling thing of....a friend who texts at 8 in the morning?), but that coupled with the sometimes offhand way I felt he could be (maybe the coke?) resulted in me storming off for almost no reason fairly often. I just felt unsure and insecure, and like he didn't take me seriously, and I'm not sure why, when he was so tender with me and we had such a good time together. One time for seemingly no good reason, I started crying and said 'I wonder if I made the right decision, to stop seeing that other guy'. I suppose I didn't like the sometimes too casual way he would act with me. After I said that I calmed down, we went to the pub, and he left me there after an hour and wouldn't answer my calls.

In early September, the final straw came. He invited me round to his, I felt he was being a little standoffish and 'lazy' with me, and without warning I jumped out of the bed in the middle of the night and left. As I left I told him I wasn't an app, I didn't want to sit around just being someone's narcissistic mirror, as that's what it sometimes felt like. I left and received a text from him saying he couldn't take the drama, that this was the 6th time I'd done this to him and he couldn't take it anymore. I didn't hear from him for 10 days.

I suppose this would be a good point to mention that I'm starting to realise one of the main problems is that we were viewing 'us' in two different ways. We never spoke about what we were, or had. And I'm starting to think that he saw me as his girlfriend, whereas I was convinced we were just 'seeing' each other (I would have wanted more). I'm not sure why we had these two different views of it, but I think that was one problem. From my perspective, the fact that we rarely met during the day, and that we'd never had a full day together (we'd go out together, have sex, wake up, have breakfast, then one or the other would leave) didn't make me feel like we were in a proper full-on relationship.

The 10 days of silence from him passed. The final day was a Sunday. I had given up hope. I was devastated. I couldn't stop thinking about him and how I'd fucked things up. So I made a really stupid mistake. In a desperate attempt to make myself feel better, I created a Tinder profile on Sunday afternoon. I don't know what I was thinking, I didn't even think I'd use it. I'm sure a lot of women here can relate: my logic was I could dull the pain of one man's rejection with the comfort of another. I don't think I was going to act on it. But I think I had to feel like I was doing something to get control over myself again. I felt heartbroken. That same afternoon, I went out with some friends. In one last final attempt to reach out, I texted him that what we were doing was great, and I just wished he could be there with me to share it. To my total amazement, he replied. He suggested we go to his local for dinner that night.

When I arrived at the pub, he was completely off with me. Talking to anyone but me and actively making me feel uncomfortable (pretending not to hear me, getting me to repeat myself, etc.). I was confused as I thought he wanted to make up. I grit my teeth and did my best to chat away with his mates, who I like. At closing time, he walked me home and we sort of had it out.

He said I had abandonment issues and needed therapy (he has a point). He told me I couldn't just relax without his undivided attention (true, but only because I felt the whole relationship was an insecure environment). He said a lot of other things that resonated with me.

And then: he pulled his phone out his pocket and said "And I saw -". And then stopped. I said "saw what?" and he said it didn't matter. We walked back to his. He said I "scared" him. He said he was sure he was just a transient thing for me. I denied that. The next morning when I got back home, I deleted my Tinder account.

Since that night, one month ago, I took everything he said on board. I started therapy. I tried to completely turn my attitude around and it worked. We've had a month of great times, although I did feel he was slightly more pulled back now, warier. I just thought I would have to regain some trust, and accepted that. It became left up to me to organise all of our meetings. I think he wanted to see me "work for it", if you get me. So I did. We did non-booze related things together. It was brilliant. He said "I adore you" and "I think about you all the time". And I feel, felt, the same. I love every minute I spend with him. He makes me happy. He makes me laugh, he makes me feel supported and protected. This Friday he sent me a text at 11pm inviting me round to his for cocktails, but I was shattered. I suggested we go down to the sea the following day (Saturday). And so yesterday I texted him at 5pm asking if he wanted to meet in an hour. No reply. Two hours later he called, jovial, said he was at the skate park, etc. I was a bit gutted as I thought we'd be going down to the beach together, but invited him to join me and my mates at our local later.

When he arrived at the pub last night, he was clearly off with me. Didn't even come over and greet me. Spoke to everyone but me. Got up from the table when I started a story, you get the idea. I tried to shrug it off and focus on his mates and mine. At closing time, me and my mate went back to his for drinks, but he was still being passive aggressive with me, not communicating, not smiling, despite having invited me back (??). When we got in, I let some little catty aside out, mainly at the frustration of having just spent 6 hours basically being ignored by the man I so care about. He went apeshit. I couldn't even finish a sentence. He was steamrolling all over me. He said it was bullshit how I only asked him to go down to the sea at 5pm, when he'd been waiting all day (I just wanted to go for dusk - I would have thought he'd initiate a text if he wanted to go earlier). He called me manipulative. He called me desperate for male attention (I'm not a flirt, I don't act or dress provocatively at all, so I can only assume he means talking to his mates - which I would have thought any guy would appreciate it). He called me emotionally abusive. Then the real slap came: "And I saw your fucking Tinder profile".
Wow. That profile had been online for 16 hours only, a month ago. I said so he must have been on Tinder too. He said "just keeping tabs on you". We didn't meet online, by the way. I began to feel panic and regret. It was impossible to get him to understand my reasoning for having that profile up. I couldn't get him to understand it had been up there for only 16 hours. He seemed convinced I was sleeping with other men. I told him I hadn't slept with anyone else since July. But he was getting louder and louder and less and less willing to hear me. Finally, he told me to fuck off and all but frog marched me out of his house. He told me to get lost and said he would discuss things another time.

I'm so upset. I feel like I've really fucked this up, but there are so many things I don't understand. I don;t know how to fix it. I tried calling him once this morning (went to voicemail). Then I sent a massive text telling him we needed to have an honest conversation where we get everything out on the table. I said I felt like our relationship had started with mistrust because we were both seeing other people at the start, and we needed to have a frank discussion about everything so we could nip this in the bud instead of always hiding away from it, whether with socialising/drink, or me storming off, or him throwing me out. No reply.

I'm hurt, I don't know what to do now, I can't bear the thought of such good potential going to waste. I haven't felt so in tune with someone in a long time, but what the hell am I going to do about this now?

I needed to write all this down. If you've read this far, thanks again. If you could give me any outsider insight that would be very appreciated. I should point out that I realise the drinking and his drug use are NOT conducive to healthy behaviour - I do know that and it should be something that changes.

Why was he on Tinder? As I said, it was up for 16 hours: that's quite a stroke of luck, isn't it, to log on to Tinder in the small 16-hour window in which it was visible? Why would he wait a full month, holding on to that Tinder profile thing? How could he spend time with me and be tender with me to suddenly lose it over this information he's been guarding? What pisses me off is how he started this fight after a month when I'd really been trying and things were going so well. He may have complained about my walking off in a strop, but his way of completely shutting down (not reply to me) is also very distressing and a little controlling.

Ultimately - do you think I've fucked this up beyond all repair? Obviously you don't know the guy - but what the hell could his POV be? How could he be feeling? Do you think I've behaved badly? Obviously I know I have - I'm just not sure it warrants this explosiveness and 'punishing'. Do you think he feels mistrustful of me? Does he not give a shit? I just can't tell, I don't know what's true anymore.

OP posts:
ChilledAndPleasant · 13/10/2015 18:44

I agree that you both sound like hard work and a terrible match for each other in terms of drama and passive aggression.

His coke use and admission to seeing a married woman and wanting to "keep tabs" on you are just a few extra nails in the coffin of the idea of the pair of you being anything other than a terrible idea.

RunRabbitRunRabbit · 13/10/2015 19:25

I deserve an explanation.
He won't give you an explanation though will he? Surely at best he will explain why it is all your fault. You don't always get what you deserve. Life's not fair.

You can't just out of nowhere blow up over a grudge/hurt you've been stewing over in silence for a month and expect the other person to not be wondering WTAF is going on.

True. You would, of course, know that the other person is wondering WTAF is going on. Caring about it is different. Getting off on it is different again.

Take control. Text him to tell him to fuck off because you have had enough of his shit.

RunRabbitRunRabbit · 13/10/2015 19:26

Why are you clinging to this loser?

spidergurl · 13/10/2015 19:54

"Why are you clinging to this loser?"

Because it feels like I love him.

OP posts:
HPsauciness · 13/10/2015 20:05

Obviously you want to keep dancing with him, and that's your choice. I can't really explain to you why this isn't love, it's just heady romantic shit in which you are getting sucked in due to him withdrawing so you now have to chase him. It's tiring and it doesn't come from a good place (like love) for either of you.

I really hope you find a good counsellor and also start to value yourself more than this over-emotional infatuation drama stuff which is substituting for real deep proper love.

If you are drawn to knobs not 'nice guys' then you need to ask what payoff is there for you, or what instinctive pattern you are in that makes you choose crappy unsuitable people. By knobs you mean people who don't actually like you or care for you that much.

springydaffs · 13/10/2015 20:13

... just enjoys playing with you, messing you around, controlling you, messing up your head, taking you apart, keeping you on the back foot, pulling the rug from under your feet, wrong-footing you, endlessly critiquing you to find you dismally wanting Sad

He's your dad, spider (sorry for cod psychology)

stoppingbywoods · 13/10/2015 20:27

OP: Please help me, I'm miserable.

All of Mumsnet: This man is going to destroy you. Get out of it.

OP: You're right. But why isn't he calling?

All of Mumsnet: Because he's manipulative. We said he's going to destroy you.

OP: But I love him. Please help me, I'm miserable.

And on, and on, and on.

See OP, this right here is something that people with damage do. They turn to other people for 'advice' when their own life choices have created emotional pain. They pretend they want to change in order to get short-term comfort. But in reality, they have no intention of turning themselves upside down to change the habits of a lifetime.

And slowly (but increasingly quickly as you go through your twenties), all the people you are leaning on will realise that you want a crutch. Not a way out. And they will used. And they will leave.

stoppingbywoods · 13/10/2015 20:27

feel used

moopymoodle · 13/10/2015 20:33

It's both of you, your both insecure and acting out in very unhealthy ways. Difference is your In your 20s and still have a lot to learn, by 40 he should have got it by now.

Any man treat me with silent treatment like that he would be gone! Don't accept this poor treatment

sleeponeday · 13/10/2015 20:44

Because it feels like I love him.

Hysterical bonding

Co-dependence

Familiarity of dysfunction

Sunk costs fallacy

What it absolutely is not is love.

spidergurl · 13/10/2015 20:59

I know everything you're all saying is true.

I'm just so very bitterly disappointed because as I said the past month with him felt so positive, it feels so cruel to have it so harshly ripped away out of nowhere.

I can only assume that the whole Tinder thing was eating away at him and just erupted out under the influence...either that or possibly for whatever reason he wanted to reinject drama into the relationship and so used it for those purposes. Frankly considering his silence now, I'm sad to say that I suspect it's the latter.

I have had short term relationships with good healthy men and I've never acted out. It's something about this dynamic that triggers some kind of abandonment reaction. I feel a deep, painful sense of loss right now that feels excessive for what we had in terms of substance and length.

I don't think he will be in touch because I don't think he wants hassle. I think he wants a woman/women who are unattainable in reality or emotionally (which I suppose I am) and who are easily placated (which I'm not). I think I've taken it to the point where staying together would require more care and change on both sides and I think he just wants to get his leg over with a good time girl.

In a way I'm glad that he is doing this as I doubt that I'm strong enough to make that decision. I need to focus on working through issues like you all say. It just makes me sad because I want someone to feel close to and share things with. I have good friends, a job I like, hobbies. If only I wasn't so broken and lost when it comes to men.

OP posts:
Fontella · 13/10/2015 21:29

After everything everyone has written in an effort to help you OP you are still doing it.

Still speculating, querying, over-analysing and over-dramatising your situation and continuing to obsess over what you think he thinks, what you think he wants, what you think he will or won't do, and why.

All this angst and anguish over a middle-aged pisshead cokehead knobhead who behaves like a fucking 10 year old. Can you not see what a complete and utter waste of time that is? Trying to understand why a twat like that does what he does is about as productive as trying to find a polar bear in a snowstorm.

And while I don't wish to be unkind, what comes through in your posts is that your self obsession is almost as bad as your obsession with him.

You've had some fantastic advice on here. Some of it plain speaking, some of it maybe a little harsh - but sometimes it has to be for the message to hit home. If it hasn't yet, my advice to you is to go back and read and re-read this thread (and your responses) until it does.

NumbBlaseCold · 13/10/2015 21:39

At the very minimum I expect a curt text saying: "This is a mess and going nowhere. Let's stop here."

This is what you should text and say.

Stop analysing him and his motives and focusing on that.

You will not know his true motives, he will not say them to you.

If he did then any woman would leave.

Instead he seeks and causes drama.

It's something about this dynamic that triggers some kind of abandonment reaction. I feel a deep, painful sense of loss right now that feels excessive for what we had in terms of substance and length.

Did you end your relationships or part on good terms?

Perhaps you are addicted to the 'chase' as much as he is to the running and now you keep playing out this odd cycle again and again.

One of you must break it, it's unhealthy.

He will not so you must.

Unless you want to post this again and again until people say 'oh you are that poster' because they straight away see the same thing happening, same advice given and you still obsessing.

"This is a mess and going nowhere. Let's stop here." Test it and block him.

NumbBlaseCold · 13/10/2015 21:39

*text it

Blarblarblar · 13/10/2015 22:31

I've just read the whole thread!
I'm going to go bang my head repeatedly against a wall. You have had fantastic amazing advice from experienced people who have taken time to reply and you've just ignored all of it.
Come on Woman!!! Your worth more than this shit. Some half assed soap opera.

badtime · 13/10/2015 22:44

Actually, OP, you have said one thing on this thread that gives me hope for you:

Because it feels like I love him .

Not hopeful in itself, but the majority of posters in fucked-up relationships like yours would say 'because I love him'. Your statement at least seems to accept that your feelings may not be what you perceive them to be. Build on that thought.

MissStressBum · 13/10/2015 23:23

OP - delete his number and block him. He sounds completely toxic. Don't wait for his call, don't waste time wondering what he thinks and just move on and do other things. What you just explained is not a loving relationship and not worth wasting energy on. Ditch him, spend some time on yourself (get a healthy or challenging hobby) and meet new people (don't focus on meeting men)!
I have seen a lot of posters give you similar advice. Don't let yourself learn the hard way that he is not worth your time.

FellOutOfBedTwice · 13/10/2015 23:38

Another one here who had a relationship with an alcoholic nutjob 20 years my senior. Another one wondering if it's the same guy- does his surname begin with G? Was he born in a place beginning with C? If not it's horrifying to think there's more than one of them.

Anyway- having been there, I can assure you that this won't improve. He's a loser and a head fucker and all he will do is make you mad. Like you say, I was turned into a needy and pathetic creature with huge abandonment issues by my one, when I had previously had healthy enough relationships. But I come from a family with a very dysfunctional background and I was mirroring that. I got out and got some therapy. Now married to a nice man who doesn't do my fucking head in. Oh and I don't drink anymore because that was an issue for me too that I was mirroring with him.

Basically good relationships aren't this hard. Run like the wind, he's no good for you. Don't look back. You won't make it right by continuing.

Ledkr · 14/10/2015 08:00

Op we've all been there.
I had a very similar relationship on the rebound from a long marriage.
I finally stopped playing the game after nearly 2 years of roller coaster emotions from euphoria to utter devastation. I was continuously anxious and never felt truly happy.
It was hard when it ended but I got over it quickly and soon ended up in a proper grown up relationship.
My mantra when it ended was "enough is enough"

hellsbellsmelons · 14/10/2015 09:49

Good grief - it's all drama drama drama!
STOP IT - NOW!!!!
Why continue with this crappy awful relationship?
The drugs clearly don't work for him.

As a starting point if you don't have much money for therapy you could contact Womens Aid. Enrol to do their Freedom Programme. Try to attend the course or you can do it on line.
That is a good starting point for you.
You can't see the red flags that are flying in your face by their dozens.
You have no idea what your boundaries are or how to set them.
The Freedom Programme will you help you with this.

But FFS, cut hit out. Send one text. This is over. And then delete and block him.

Work on yourself because none of this is anywhere near normal.

spidergurl · 15/10/2015 21:05

I feel capable of moving on. But I really need closure. I can't just have had this big argument and things be in silent limbo. So I tried to call him twice and he just let it ring. So I texted him essentially saying if its over, simply text that it's over and that will be that.

Why doesn't he just give me that instead of letting it eat away at me? Now I'm angry!!!

OP posts:
spidergurl · 15/10/2015 21:06

I mean surely that would make life easier fir him instead of having to field a mentalist ;-)

OP posts:
featherglass · 15/10/2015 21:34

Op - READ the above thread again .......... and again........and again.......

tribpot · 15/10/2015 21:44

Get a grip on yourself.

Don't text him and say 'if it's over, text me'. He's not the boss of you, he doesn't get to decide if it's over or not. If you say it's over, it's over. Own it and stop handing all the power to him.

You haven't done that because you want to keep this ridiculous melodrama going. He KNOWS how desperate you are to hear from him and he enjoys exploiting that.

Draw your own line in the sand and move on. Take control back, finally.

gatewalker · 15/10/2015 22:02

How does your stomach feel when you do all of this, spider? How does your body feel? I'm guessing not that good. I've been there. I've been involved with a man where I do believe that the primary reason for meeting was to open - and ultimately try to heal - some very, very deep wounds.

But here's the thing.

The healing you do on your own. That's the biggest challenge of all. You'll come together, and then you go off and do the work. And you'll fight that like hell. You won't want to accept it - because there's a part of you that feels magnetised to him. And it is. And thank god for that, because that part is going to heal you. It's going to take you to all of those bloody godforsaken places that are helping you to realise that he is not it. You just thought that he was.

You are it. And the task here is to break free. That's it. Nothing else. Then life can continue.

Brutal. But you're no stranger to 'brutal', are you?