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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I have destroyed my own tangled web of confusion

191 replies

spidergurl · 11/10/2015 18:11

WARNING: This is going to be long, so thank you very much to whoever reads all the way through. And please make sure you're comfy before you start ;-)

I (20s) met him (40s, let's call him Tom) last November. We went out together twice and even though I liked him, our chemistry was amazing and the kissing wonderful, I was going through some kind of existential crisis in which I was questioning everything about my life, and I vanished from his. Poor, I know.

In July, I felt I was getting back on track and moved to his part of town. After eight months of zero romance, not even so much as a kiss, I had met another guy who I had very casually started seeing. Yet I sent Tom a message apologising for having disappeared and asked if I could buy him a drink.
I was beginning to feel better about life and I was enjoying getting back into dating. That same night, I went back to his house and slept with him. It was wonderful and I was reminded just how much this guy made me laugh, just how well we clicked. That morning as we were having breakfast, he got a text, which he ignored, then a call, which he ignored, then his doorbell rang, and when he ignored THAT there was the sound of a key in the door. He rushed down to 'sort it out'. Turns out he'd been seeing this married woman (had given her a key to go to the shop and back the week previously and had forgotten she still had it). At this stage I wasn't emotionally involved with him and could offer him some advice and an ear. I asked whether he loved her, and he said 'it's not that simple'.

Our relationship progressed nicely over the next two or three weeks. It was now early August. I was still seeing the other guy, too. Things with both had progressed to the stage where I didn't think it was right to be seeing two men anymore. I spoke to both of them individually about it, and Tom was pissed off that I'd been continuing to see this other guy. Personally I felt that we didn't feel like a couple and it was such early days that there wasn't much wrong with dating other people - especially since there was the married woman scenario, which sort of made me think him a little hypocritical.
From early August to early September, we continued seeing each other twice a week. We loved spending time together, never a dull moment, so in sync with each other. But I should mention that this is set against a backdrop of quite a lot of alcohol consumed (both of us), and very regular cocaine use (him). As soon as I started to feel emotionally involved, I started 'acting up', by which I mean I became oversensitive and started walking off on a regular basis. I suppose deep inside I was insecure about where we stood. Every now and then when his phone would go off near me, I'd instinctively look down and see he'd received a message from the married woman. Obviously I never read the messages, and he reassured me that she'd moved and they were just friends (he did see her at a festival in August, and there was the niggling thing of....a friend who texts at 8 in the morning?), but that coupled with the sometimes offhand way I felt he could be (maybe the coke?) resulted in me storming off for almost no reason fairly often. I just felt unsure and insecure, and like he didn't take me seriously, and I'm not sure why, when he was so tender with me and we had such a good time together. One time for seemingly no good reason, I started crying and said 'I wonder if I made the right decision, to stop seeing that other guy'. I suppose I didn't like the sometimes too casual way he would act with me. After I said that I calmed down, we went to the pub, and he left me there after an hour and wouldn't answer my calls.

In early September, the final straw came. He invited me round to his, I felt he was being a little standoffish and 'lazy' with me, and without warning I jumped out of the bed in the middle of the night and left. As I left I told him I wasn't an app, I didn't want to sit around just being someone's narcissistic mirror, as that's what it sometimes felt like. I left and received a text from him saying he couldn't take the drama, that this was the 6th time I'd done this to him and he couldn't take it anymore. I didn't hear from him for 10 days.

I suppose this would be a good point to mention that I'm starting to realise one of the main problems is that we were viewing 'us' in two different ways. We never spoke about what we were, or had. And I'm starting to think that he saw me as his girlfriend, whereas I was convinced we were just 'seeing' each other (I would have wanted more). I'm not sure why we had these two different views of it, but I think that was one problem. From my perspective, the fact that we rarely met during the day, and that we'd never had a full day together (we'd go out together, have sex, wake up, have breakfast, then one or the other would leave) didn't make me feel like we were in a proper full-on relationship.

The 10 days of silence from him passed. The final day was a Sunday. I had given up hope. I was devastated. I couldn't stop thinking about him and how I'd fucked things up. So I made a really stupid mistake. In a desperate attempt to make myself feel better, I created a Tinder profile on Sunday afternoon. I don't know what I was thinking, I didn't even think I'd use it. I'm sure a lot of women here can relate: my logic was I could dull the pain of one man's rejection with the comfort of another. I don't think I was going to act on it. But I think I had to feel like I was doing something to get control over myself again. I felt heartbroken. That same afternoon, I went out with some friends. In one last final attempt to reach out, I texted him that what we were doing was great, and I just wished he could be there with me to share it. To my total amazement, he replied. He suggested we go to his local for dinner that night.

When I arrived at the pub, he was completely off with me. Talking to anyone but me and actively making me feel uncomfortable (pretending not to hear me, getting me to repeat myself, etc.). I was confused as I thought he wanted to make up. I grit my teeth and did my best to chat away with his mates, who I like. At closing time, he walked me home and we sort of had it out.

He said I had abandonment issues and needed therapy (he has a point). He told me I couldn't just relax without his undivided attention (true, but only because I felt the whole relationship was an insecure environment). He said a lot of other things that resonated with me.

And then: he pulled his phone out his pocket and said "And I saw -". And then stopped. I said "saw what?" and he said it didn't matter. We walked back to his. He said I "scared" him. He said he was sure he was just a transient thing for me. I denied that. The next morning when I got back home, I deleted my Tinder account.

Since that night, one month ago, I took everything he said on board. I started therapy. I tried to completely turn my attitude around and it worked. We've had a month of great times, although I did feel he was slightly more pulled back now, warier. I just thought I would have to regain some trust, and accepted that. It became left up to me to organise all of our meetings. I think he wanted to see me "work for it", if you get me. So I did. We did non-booze related things together. It was brilliant. He said "I adore you" and "I think about you all the time". And I feel, felt, the same. I love every minute I spend with him. He makes me happy. He makes me laugh, he makes me feel supported and protected. This Friday he sent me a text at 11pm inviting me round to his for cocktails, but I was shattered. I suggested we go down to the sea the following day (Saturday). And so yesterday I texted him at 5pm asking if he wanted to meet in an hour. No reply. Two hours later he called, jovial, said he was at the skate park, etc. I was a bit gutted as I thought we'd be going down to the beach together, but invited him to join me and my mates at our local later.

When he arrived at the pub last night, he was clearly off with me. Didn't even come over and greet me. Spoke to everyone but me. Got up from the table when I started a story, you get the idea. I tried to shrug it off and focus on his mates and mine. At closing time, me and my mate went back to his for drinks, but he was still being passive aggressive with me, not communicating, not smiling, despite having invited me back (??). When we got in, I let some little catty aside out, mainly at the frustration of having just spent 6 hours basically being ignored by the man I so care about. He went apeshit. I couldn't even finish a sentence. He was steamrolling all over me. He said it was bullshit how I only asked him to go down to the sea at 5pm, when he'd been waiting all day (I just wanted to go for dusk - I would have thought he'd initiate a text if he wanted to go earlier). He called me manipulative. He called me desperate for male attention (I'm not a flirt, I don't act or dress provocatively at all, so I can only assume he means talking to his mates - which I would have thought any guy would appreciate it). He called me emotionally abusive. Then the real slap came: "And I saw your fucking Tinder profile".
Wow. That profile had been online for 16 hours only, a month ago. I said so he must have been on Tinder too. He said "just keeping tabs on you". We didn't meet online, by the way. I began to feel panic and regret. It was impossible to get him to understand my reasoning for having that profile up. I couldn't get him to understand it had been up there for only 16 hours. He seemed convinced I was sleeping with other men. I told him I hadn't slept with anyone else since July. But he was getting louder and louder and less and less willing to hear me. Finally, he told me to fuck off and all but frog marched me out of his house. He told me to get lost and said he would discuss things another time.

I'm so upset. I feel like I've really fucked this up, but there are so many things I don't understand. I don;t know how to fix it. I tried calling him once this morning (went to voicemail). Then I sent a massive text telling him we needed to have an honest conversation where we get everything out on the table. I said I felt like our relationship had started with mistrust because we were both seeing other people at the start, and we needed to have a frank discussion about everything so we could nip this in the bud instead of always hiding away from it, whether with socialising/drink, or me storming off, or him throwing me out. No reply.

I'm hurt, I don't know what to do now, I can't bear the thought of such good potential going to waste. I haven't felt so in tune with someone in a long time, but what the hell am I going to do about this now?

I needed to write all this down. If you've read this far, thanks again. If you could give me any outsider insight that would be very appreciated. I should point out that I realise the drinking and his drug use are NOT conducive to healthy behaviour - I do know that and it should be something that changes.

Why was he on Tinder? As I said, it was up for 16 hours: that's quite a stroke of luck, isn't it, to log on to Tinder in the small 16-hour window in which it was visible? Why would he wait a full month, holding on to that Tinder profile thing? How could he spend time with me and be tender with me to suddenly lose it over this information he's been guarding? What pisses me off is how he started this fight after a month when I'd really been trying and things were going so well. He may have complained about my walking off in a strop, but his way of completely shutting down (not reply to me) is also very distressing and a little controlling.

Ultimately - do you think I've fucked this up beyond all repair? Obviously you don't know the guy - but what the hell could his POV be? How could he be feeling? Do you think I've behaved badly? Obviously I know I have - I'm just not sure it warrants this explosiveness and 'punishing'. Do you think he feels mistrustful of me? Does he not give a shit? I just can't tell, I don't know what's true anymore.

OP posts:
spidergurl · 11/10/2015 19:20

Thanks Snobbly, who knows, it might well be the same guy! ;)

One of the reasons I'm so upset is 2 years ago I had another difficult relationship with another difficult man. I got quite badly hurt by it and since then didn't have any desire to get emotionally close to a man...until this one. As you can imagine I'm gutted: because clearly in that 2 year gap I learnt nothing and now I'm scared I'll be doomed to repeat this pattern forever.

For some reason I can only feel desire/emotion when the man is somewhat emotionally unattainable.

OP posts:
Scarletforya · 11/10/2015 19:20

The 'relationship' was never going in a healthy direction OP!

He had you on the subs bench for when the other woman wasn't available.

sleeponeday · 11/10/2015 19:22

A good relationship is very rarely dramatic, and very rarely hard work, and neither for long short of some terrible life event (very recent bereavement would be a good example) and almost never at the start.

He's middle-aged. He's a drama llama cheating manipulative cokehead. You (forgive me - I speak as someone who was similar in my 20s) have a lot of growing up to do, and can be easily manipulated by the likes of this man, without ever really understanding that that's what it happening.

Run.

sleeponeday · 11/10/2015 19:23

For some reason I can only feel desire/emotion when the man is somewhat emotionally unattainable.

Yeah, see, that needs skilled and appropriate therapy. Not reinforcement with more of the same.

pocketsaviour · 11/10/2015 19:24

For some reason I can only feel desire/emotion when the man is somewhat emotionally unattainable.

Well, that's something you can explore in therapy, which I do encourage you to get. It's great that you have already recognised that - now you need to understand where that comes from and work out how to improve your response.

There's a good article on Baggage Reclaim about partners like this.

AnyFucker · 11/10/2015 19:29

While you are waiting to explore this need for unavailable men in therapy, I advise you to completely swear off relationships

You are wide open for all the neighbourhood users and abusers to move right on in

I can see your neediness from here.

RoisinIwanttofightyourfather · 11/10/2015 19:30

Sorry op but you do sound immature and overly dramatic. He sounds a complete knob.
I think you should get a hobby, join a choir or do volunteer work for a charidy- anything to fill your time productively until you become grown up and meet an equally mature bloke who doesn't do coke, married women or women from his daughter's generation.

( I really wanted to say girl there but everyone on MN shouts at me when I do)

spanisharmada · 11/10/2015 19:35

Sounds just like the 'relationship' I had with an older man in my 20's. Honestly get out now. Mine dragged on for 3 ridiculous years, by the time I finally saw the light my head was so fucked it damaged my next relationship too, I was to used to being treated like shit and consequently totally mistrustful.
Give up now, no good will ever come of it.

ChilliAndMint · 11/10/2015 19:36

You've both got an awful lot of growing up to do.

Sounds like he is a serious waste of space. I can make allowances for your youth.

RiceCrispieTreats · 11/10/2015 19:37

I'm scared I'll be doomed to repeat this pattern forever

You are going to repeat it, until you take a good look at what's going on, understand how and why it happens, and figure out a new way for you to approach relationships.

We all repeat what we know, what we've learned, what we've internalised, until something makes us choose to behave differently.

fearandloathinginambridge · 11/10/2015 19:39

He is almost certainly getting some enjoyment out of ignoring you when you have arranged to meet. I recognise that behaviour from a relationship I had in my 20s. Send him on his merry fucking way and never look back.

Weefreelassie2 · 11/10/2015 19:40

The man is an arse. Worse, he's a manipulative arse that pulls your strings to make you jump then blames you for his bad behaviour . If you saw his honest profile on a dating site, would you be interested ?

Older man .Single .( why??)
Dates married women.
Loves drugs, alcohol ( and himself first, last and in the middle )
Commitment issues ( see first point) .
It strikes me that you reacted to situations in the way you have because of your own issues but these are issues he has noted and manipulated for his own reasons/ justification.

What people have said regarding therapy for you is excellent advice and I'd take that on board but for the love of all that is good, it's not all you, and ensure you drop him. Now.
Oh and yes, what exactly was he doing looking at your profile on that site ? Checking on people is not normal behaviour, and most people are there for another reason ;-)

Lassie

Onedirectionarestillloved · 11/10/2015 19:41

You are not right for each other.

What the hell is a 40 plus man doing snorting coke in a skate park?

Sounds like a dick.

spidergurl · 11/10/2015 19:44

Fearandloathing I assume it's all about ensuring he has complete control over the situation.

OP posts:
NumbBlaseCold · 11/10/2015 19:44

Perhaps that is the safer relationship for you OP?

It will never go anywhere and do anything.

You will never have a deep connection with loving and respect.

And so it is safer to stick with the known, the useless toxic relationship, where you are safer.

So you continue to chase men like this and push away others who could be less safe and give better relationships.

spidergurl · 11/10/2015 19:46

I know you're right sleeponeday. The worst part is almost every reply on here mentions him being manipulative and I just can't quite see it. It makes me sad that I can't identity the manipulation, although I can sense it.

OP posts:
spidergurl · 11/10/2015 19:47

One direction: "What the hell is a 40 plus man doing snorting coke in a skate park?" This did make me laugh...

OP posts:
spidergurl · 11/10/2015 19:48

Lassie, what do you mean by he "pulls your strings to make you jump"?

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 11/10/2015 19:49

Therapy. Please. Lots and lots of therapy.

Or your life will be a long, excruciating train wreck.

spidergurl · 11/10/2015 19:49

Thanks pocketsaviour, I read that article, seems like a very useful site.

OP posts:
spidergurl · 11/10/2015 19:52

I think you're right.

Re therapy, does anyone know where I can start looking for affordable one on one therapy? Are there national organisations/charities I can investigate? Atm I'm doing some group sessions but think I'd be better off one on one.

OP posts:
Weefreelassie2 · 11/10/2015 19:59

Manipulating. It sounds to me as if he knows your weaknesses, so exploits them knowing how you will react .For example, playing on your insecurities so that you walk out, which then gives him an excuse to " punish " you by non contact for a while or ignoring you in public ( total disrespect, and not how you treat people you care about ) And what does he do whilst you are ( temporarily ) out of the picture ? Do you know?

Oh and that relationship with a married woman , I doubt it was ever over, it would suit him too well to have a relationship that was never going to be full time .

You deserve so much better than this .

Lassie

pocketsaviour · 11/10/2015 20:03

Yep, you can find BACP accredited therapists and counsellors here
It's Good to Talk

As Attila always says, good counsellors are like good shoes - you need to find one that fits you. So email or call several in your area and have a chat with them to decide which one's best for you.

I would suggest with the issues you seem to have around unavailable men, you work with a woman.

spidergurl · 11/10/2015 20:07

Lassie, thanks so much for taking the time to clarify that, I never would have thought he would play on my insecurities purposefully.

OP posts:
spidergurl · 11/10/2015 20:09

Great pocketsaviour, I will get on that tomorrow and will look for a woman.

OP posts: