My mother is so horrible to me :(

[MakeThemEatCake]

Would this be a reason to go no contact with her?

I suffer from horrific migraines, she seems to get very annoyed with me when I have one. Anyway, I agreed to look after my young nephew this afternoon and she said she'd come with me for the first couple of hours to help, because I felt so ill from a migraine today. (Didn't want to let my sister down)

It kept getting worse, I have severe nausea with them, and she was getting more angry towards me the more ill I felt. She said some horrible things:

"YOU want to work with children? The state of you?"
"You've spoilt today now by being like this"
"You're mental"
"You're actually a nightmare to be around"
"I wont ever arrange anything with you again as you cant be reliable"
"You do realise you'll never work with children because of the way you are?"

I started crying and she got even more angry! I had to leave, felt my head was going to explode. I've let my nephew down but wasn't in a fit state to care for him. The head pain has eased a bit now I've taken painkillers but still feel so sick.

I've really had enough of her, she picks on me every time I see her, she doesn't like my son and he refuses to speak to her now. It felt like she kicked me where it would hurt, its my dream to work with children and I have bad depression and anxiety at the moment so her comments crushed me.

Thinking NC now, just needed to express what had happened tbh ,thanks for reading.

I'm a bit at your dad and sis. If you look into the dynamics of NPD family relationships, you'll realize that other family members have a vested interest in keeping the 'target' (that's you) squarely in the crosshairs of the Narcissist (that's your mother). Because if you remove yourself successfully, then she'll have to find another target and guess who that will be! Right in one, your dad or sis! I'm not saying they're doing it consciously, they're just as conditioned as you are. But in their case, they're conditioned to keep you in the crosshairs and they probably do it without really thinking. Don't let them do this to you. Step away. Let them fight their own battles with your mother!

It's very cruel of them to tell you that your mother 'only speaks the truth, just unpalatably', but I guess that's also a way of them keeping you as the target and deflecting from themselves. Don't listen to them. The only 'truth' that matters in this case, is the truth you tell yourself. We are all flawed, of course we are, we're human! But that doesn't give others the right to turn normal human frailties into weapons to use against us!

You don't need to change anything about yourself to suit someone else!! If there are things you want to change because you, yourself, want to change them, that's fine. But don't change something to either please your mother or simply because you think it will make her less likely to pick on you (because it won't). Your mother's stratagem is to 'move the cheese' so the poor little mouse (that's you) has to keep running through the maze to find it. And if you do find it, she'll just move it again. If you change 'A' about yourself, she'll simply start in on you about 'B' or 'C'. And unfortunately, she'll have a whole fucking alphabet of perceived and made up 'faults' all ready to pick on!! All 'for your own good' of course. You will never win with her, which is why you need to remove yourself from the situation.

I'm glad the counseling went well. A good counselor is a real treasure. There have been two good 'uns in my life and they made a world of difference for me.

That's a very nice thing to say tinsel and means a lot to me! Sorry for the late reply btw have not stopped all afternoon. I'm reading the Stately Homes thread, its so relatable. I had no idea so many people had messed up family dynamics. Yes you're right, the legacy it can leave is lots of self doubt.

I know Lotta, not all mothers are what their children need/deserve them to be, its very sad really :(

Potatoface THE LETTER sounds utterly terrifying and an emotional landslide. I'm sorry you're going through that can I ask what she writes to you?

Hi across, I think my dad and sis are definitely acting on a subconscious level. I've had a bit of a think about it today...its also probably because they DO agree with her annoyance at me. Yes I could push the GP for a neurology referral but I've tried and they're not that easy to get! Also, I have terrible health anxiety and the thought of an MRI scares me. A lot. My depression is a huge burden which literally cripples me mentally and does affect my motivation, so I'm not making anything of my life atm which I know frustrates them. Yes I can be unreliable, mostly that's health related but I also don't really want to socialise right now and panic quite a lot which is hard to cope with.

There are also other people in my life who I should also be NC with, so they're probably thinking if I can cut DM out then I should do the same with these other people who stamp all over me. I don't know, I'm just thinking of reasons why they're not supporting me this time.

But as you rightly say, its mostly self preservation. Sorry for the essay!...

THE LETTER consists mainly of how i made her life unbearable....im one of 4 and im the only one who gets letters.....apparently i knew about my dads affair when i was 13 and didnt tell her !!!!.....i helped cover it up!!!!....she made my childhood miserable so when i was 17 i went to live with my dad....first thing she said was 'well thats great i wont ever get any keep out of you then!'....everything i have EVER done is disappointing to here.....and her view of our childhood is that it was fantastic.....well it wasnt...i wont go into details, but i did escape as soon as i could....never forgiven me....constantly belittles me....but older sister is fantastic....dont know why....more like her i suspect...my own children tolerate her ...just....but dont go out of their way....i keep thinking she will change and give her chances and the cycle repeats itself......the LETTER is always in capitals like she is shouting at me...i keep them so when she denies what she has written i can show her.....but she says 'i didnt mean it like it says'....she did have an awful mother herself, and i do worry sometimes that i might become the same ...scary stuff

There are no words! She actually sends all of that regularly to her own child?!?
And what, expects you to be grateful for her incredible insight? What a load of poisonous, toxic crap! I don't know much about projecting, but I imagine a fair bit of that is her own beliefs about her or someone else. She may as well be sending them to herself. If it wasn't for the fact that you keep them for evidence (v good idea btw) then I'd suggest a nice bonfire for all of THE LETTERS!

Maybe though it would be best not to confront her with what she's written, in her head she meant it in a 'caring' way,and you'll drive yourself crazy trying to get her to see it as it is. Maybe just don't even acknowledge their existence?

Don't worry, you won't be like her. You just won't. The cycle CAN be broken, I firmly believe that, and your awareness of her terrible parenting is going to help you to be a better parent if anything.

I wonder how much of your depression and anxiety is a direct relation to her. I say that as I have anxiety and it is very much related from a childhood constantly on edge wondering when and what I would be yelled at for next.

You letting people walk all over you? Well your mother taught you to allow that from a very young age. You weren't not encouraged to stand up for yourself.

Little motivation? Could be because when you were young, if you were motivated to do something and it was against her wishes that was stamped on to.

This may or not be the case with you, or some or it is, but that's my experience

You're not far off aussie - the constant fear of being blamed or told off for something was there from when I was little. Anxiety can be rooted in childhood from what I know. How is yours since NC with your mum?

To make things harder for me when I was a child, my parents divorce was stressful, they would argue via me, so I'd hear all their anger about each other all the time. They'd basically unleash their bitterness on me and I'd feel responsible for making them both happy. And then guilty if they were upset.

Yes I have trouble with boundaries there's currently a few people who know I'm vulnerable but still don't respect me in various ways...hard to explain. And I seem to attract this kind of behaviour, I think people think I'm an easy target/pushover. I'm the kind of doofus who will apologise to you if you step on my toes!

Well your parents had no respect for your boundaries, that was not your job to help with the fighting. It was their job to protect and shield you from it.

I am still dealing with my anxiety. I am more aware of it and how it affects things. And that process has taken years to work out.

For example this year I have worked out that I struggle to know how I am feeling. I know I am feeling something because I am crying and I have a horrible feeling in my stomach, but I can't tell you what the problem is. Happened last night.

Potentially this is rooted because I wasnt allowed to have my own feelings and was stamped on when I tried to express them. So now I am 'waiting to be told what to feel' if that makes sense.

It does make sense. You know something is going on with you but identifying your response is difficult. I'm sure what you said is right, that when you were younger your feelings were dismissed and not valued, so now it comes naturally for you to deny them. Its so important to be able to recognise when we're feeling something and accept it. One thing I've learned through the counselling is that its perfectly ok to have contradicting feelings, it doesn't make any of them less real.

The fact that you're aware of this particular issue is great - I'm certain that half the battle with ourselves is self awareness!

It is very like grieving. I always thought my mum disliked me and was nasty to me because I was an unpleasant person. It had to be me, if even my own mother couldn't stand me! And every criticism seemed so true: I must be lazy because I sat down reading all day instead of running around outside. I must be deeply, inherently selfish because I didn't want my younger brother to take (and break) my stuff. I must be horrible because I'm tactless (ASD). I was a snob because I couldn't dumb down and read the classics. DB was very clearly golden child.

After I read the Stately Homes thread a couple of years back I realised it was her, not me. She had an extremely abusive childhood (which she told me about as a kid btw and expected me to keep secret) and she was repeating some of it. Anger got a lot stronger when she blatantly used me when DF died then dropped me and my DCs instantly when she got a new DP.

Acceptance now. It's a lot easier since she drunkenly told me last year that she doesn't think she can feel love (in the context of new partner). I can see that she is broken way beyond my ability to fix her, that it isn't me at all. It really helps to live a long way away so she can't drop by and we're LC because I do t instigate contact any more and she can't be bothered to call me. When she does I put her on speaker and carry on doing stuff at the same time - she doesn't need any response other than "oh no, really?" And "how interesting". Sometimes I amuse myself by timing how long the monologue lasts before she remembers to ask after me or the DCs (record is 2hrs then hung up).

A bit long, sorry! What I meant to say was that a badly abused persons mind is all about self preservation. There's no room for empathy - that might hurt them further. If they're locked into that you can't get them out. If you look at all the nasty behaviour/sayings they fall into a pattern of making them feel better at ANYONE's expense. Seriously, if you were Stephen Hawking they'd criticise you for lazing around in a wheelchair and never mention your career. If you were Paula Radcliffe you'd be selfish for running instead of being a SAHM. Anything to make you look bad and them better by comparison.

'a badly abused persons mind is all about self preservation. There's no room for empathy - that might hurt them further.'
That sums my DM up perfectly Viking

What a great quote - I'll remember that, thank you Viking.

(Of course my family were onto that as well: so selfish! Only ever think of yourself! Yaddy yaddy yadda. Yes their vicious and unrelenting abuse made me very self-absorbed in one way or another. I was terrified of being hurt. Didn't realise it was them ripping me to shreds on a daily basis: the family sport)

I say 'were' bcs I no longer see them. Yay! Its taken years and a lot of therapy but I relate to so much of what you are experiencing Cake

Not that I don't have any empathy! Just that my first gut instinct in my madly choppy and agonising world was coping: how was I going to cope?

I've found out I can cope just fine without those savages in my life.

(Nb THE LETTER - had one of those, A4 typed, tiny margins, pt10 type - to squeeze in all the venom. Made me ill for 3 months!)

Hey VikingLady thanks for sharing it sounds not very nice at all :( and I also love your quote about the self preservation being linked to lack of empathy. I get that, I really do. So its basically like a defence mechanism then?
True about the Stephen Hawking comparison - doesn't matter who you are or what you've achieved, it's all just ammo to knock you down further.

Thanks springy, I want to say I'm glad you relate but that feels wrong. I'd never feel glad someone is treated appallingly by their own flesh and blood. But its comforting isn't it to know others are with us going through those same feelings.

Do you think its common to have a very deep fear that you're going to repeat the same mistakes with your own DC? As although I'm aware of what not to do, it worries me how much is ingrained into us from childhood and that my own mother swore she'd never treat me like this!

Do you think its common to have a very deep fear that you're going to repeat the same mistakes with your own DC? As although I'm aware of what not to do, it worries me how much is ingrained into us from childhood and that my own mother swore she'd never treat me like this!

Well I share that fear. I've had to work it out on my own and have no good role models in my immediate family.

I always have that fear Cake. I check myself ALL THE TIME to see if I'm saying the right things, being loving enough, being emotionally available etc. And then, on the flip side, wondering if I'm over the top, being controlling or engulfing. It's exhausting.
I'm learning to trust my instincts now that my children are getting older (1 teenager, 1 preteen and 1 8yo) who all actually seem to still like me, even the teen!
It's a very common fear but I think that if you have insight and empathy (you have this in bucket loads, judging by your posts) you will not repeat. Your DC is already rewarding you for your parenting with his approach towards your DM now.

I would say, don't 'fear the fear' but embrace it.

I too worried about this,but I truly believe that the dread of treating my kids badly, kept me on the right path.

I have no way been a perfect mum. I made loads of mistakes but I have never, belittled my kids, never been spiteful or nasty to them. Never ridiculed them in front of family or friends. Never threatened them with Borstal of children's home, never blamed them for things in my own life. Never threatened suicide because of them. Never have they had to hide under a bed for fear of repercussions when they were sobbing in terror. I could go on.

Anyone who has had a normal childhood might read the list and think, well not doing those things is no big deal. But when you live a life where this is 'normal' is not not that easy to break the habit.

I am going to boast here. I have lots of grandchildren, when they were little, one of my sons told me that he wanted to give his kids the type of childhood that he had. He said he had talked about it with his brother and sister and they agreed.

So when all of you, who were abused by your parents Look at your wonderful sons and daughters. Dont just be proud of them, but be proud of yourself too, for what you have achieved against the odds.

Do you think its common to have a very deep fear that you're going to repeat the same mistakes with your own DC?

Yes.

I've taken a lot of advice on how to rear children well (including sometimes here, sometimes my lovely MIL but also sometimes trained professionals). My roadmap for child rearing is comprehensively broken, so I'm building a new one.

Made mistakes ofc. But being very aware of what can happen has helped me bite back my responses sometimes and consciously taken a different course. Absolutely vital.

By the way, it was my biological mother who was violent and overtly severely abusive. But it was my adoptive father's nasty sly comments over the years, eroding self confidence and security, that have probably done more long term damage (to me, perhaps someone else it might have been the other way around)

What I mean to say is that sometimes the not-so-dramatic stuff is just as destructive as the more obviously violent stuff. Words and an emotionally destructive attitudes can cut as deep.

As Tim Minchin says -
"Sticks and stones may break your bones,
But words can break hearts."

Bones heal a lot quicker than hearts.

I find myself sometimes following my mother's not-brilliant example, and really despise myself for it. I have to find a way to rein it in before I do cause my DSs long-term harm for it - I've had lots of counselling over the years for mother-issues, but not this one - but to start with, are there any books that might help, does anyone know?

And, as if anyone needed scientific validation that EA is as bad as other forms of abuse, here you are:
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151014121059.htm

www.amazon.co.uk/How-Talk-Kids-Will-Listen/dp/1848123094/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1444919923&sr=8-1&keywords=how+to+talk+so+kids+will+listen+and+listen+so+kids+will+talk

this is one

and www.amazon.co.uk/Playful-Parenting-Lawrence-J-Cohen/dp/0345442865/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1444919968&sr=8-1&keywords=playful+parenting

is also supposed to be very good.

Ive been pointed by the professionals to some of the Triple P parenting sheets. they sound easy and common sense but it's rather harder to follow than they seem, when you're stressed out and tempted to fall back on old patterns of childrearing!

I see it's a common fear then, I thought as much. It's not surprising really - it is after all a reaction to having years of unhealthy parenting and then being in a position where you are the one doing the parenting. I guess its natural to be scared of history repeating itself.

Thanks tinsel for your lovely compliment! :) that made me feel proud and also surprised as I always feel there is something 'wrong' with me, and that I can't put myself across quite right. No doubt the legacy of low self esteem growing up.

Florentina beautiful post, that is so touching about what your son said! You've obviously done a fab job, and it's inspiring to know that after what you went through as a child (and an adult).

I agree about non-dramatic, subtle digs and insults being just as bad btw. They will erode your self worth very gradually until you suddenly realise it's damaged or even gone. Of course no abuse is ok, but I do find something incredibly sinister in passive aggressive digs...and the chipping away of a childs confidence :( the thought of it makes me want to grab that child and carry them away and shower them in praise & affection.

Triple P - I've done two of their parenting courses and they are fantastic. I still refer to the workbooks I was given on them and read the diary I kept at the time too. Yes Meerka agree, definitely not easy to follow in the moment! No parents are perfect are they, I think the difference, I HOPE the difference between being human and being abusive, is awareness and wanting to check your behaviour. Plus of course valuing your children as they deserve.

Thanks Meerka :)