My close male friends wife accused us of wanting to be together

[nancyfromthefarm]

I am absolutely reeling tonight having not long got back from dinner with a couple my husband and I are friends with. It is actually me who is close friends with the husband of the other couple although I always normally get on well with his wife. We met in our early 20's (we are all late 30's now) and quickly became very close. When we met we were both with our current partners the people we would go on to marry so were never single in all the time we knew each other. Once or twice while very drunk we talked about it, not getting together but that we probably would have if we had both been single when we met. We also laughed and said it was a good thing we weren't single as we would make a terrible couple and at least this way we would always stay friends and we just agreed not to go there. We could have got together if we really wanted to neither of us was even engaged at that time but we both loved our partners and felt we would be better as friends. I has been a fantastic and treasured friendship, we have a lot in common intellectually more than anything else that we are unable to share with our spouses and it is lovely to have an outlet for those things.

For the most part both our partners have accepted our friendship without issue and we all hang out together on occasion like tonight. My friends wife had her 1st baby in February and this was the 1st time we have all got together like this since the birth.

The Baby was with a relative overnight and so my friends wife let her hair down with a few drinks. Towards the end of the evening she was very drunk and agitated. My friend and I are both very interested in politics and so had been discussing the new labour leader as well as other things when she started in on us. She was speaking to my husband saying that they should just leave and let us get on with it, that she didn't want to be a gooseberry. She then said that the only reason my friend and I married who we did was because we hadn't met each other first and that we should just put everyone out of their misery by getting together.

I tried to reassure her and so did he but she was very worked up at this point. My husband said that we should just leave, my friend agreed and we did. My husband was a bit quiet on the way home, not angry but he has gone to bed. I have texted my friend and his wife is apparently sleeping now. I don't know what to think, it may be that she is just stressed with the baby but I am scared for what this could mean. I want to say to her that that isn't how we feel about each other, if we had wanted to go down that road we could have years ago and we didn't because we loved our respective partners.

I just need some advice or reassurance about this, will she be ok, is it likely to blow over?

I personally don't know of any same sex friendships between people who already have a partner where they text the friend back and forth throughout the day, every day, where they tell each other they miss each other and are secretive about meeting up. I'm sure there must be exceptions but the majority of these friendships only seem to happen between opposite sexes. Why is that if not for some other acknowledged/unacknowledged factor in play?

I made friends with MNer who I text a lot, we tell each other we miss each other but we don't meet up secretively.

Meeting up secretively is weird behaviour for anybody. If you need to add frisson, secrecy or lies, it's not a friendship.

Bathtimefunkster nailed it in her post at 8.16.

Your talking about him as though he's YOUR husband and your contempt for the wife is obvious.

Sounds like an intro on Jeremy Vile.

Nothing wrong with having eg an intellectual connection with somebody that you don't have with your spouse. Doesn't mean the marriage is deficient or that op considers the intellectual connection to be superior. It just is a crucial aspect of your life if that is your thing, and it's not easy to find others with whom you can click; lovely when you find someone you do click with. It's not unlike a pp's interest in, what was it, intellectual sci-fi (or something): great/important/precious when you find someone you click with on it.

I have a friend I was in 6th form with and we both studied the same at uni and generally hung out for years and years. I love him, simple truth, he is very precious to me and I would be devastated if for some reason we had to part. That said, I don't see him often, we contact rarely (he lives abroad with his wife) and we're not in one another's pockets. When we do get together there is an instant connection, a shared history, that is, I suppose, exclusive. I do, though, mind my P's and Q's and I am very very careful not to step on the wife's toes - out of respect and propriety more than hiding anything - there is nothing to hide. I try to find things we can share together, though the wife and i are not natural friends. It's a bit like parenting kids, making sure everything is absolutely fair and equal to the nth edge, mindful how the slightest inequality of unfairness can feel magnified to the one on the end of it.

I also won't let him talk about his marriage to me except in very general terms. I have told him that I am a woman and my solidarity will be towards women; the inference being don't belly ache to me, I'll naturally side with her.

Perhaps you need to get some of your P's and Q's in order, op. It may be you've been naïve. But I also think that, although you've probably been innocent, you haven't been quite honest with yourself about this friendship.

I must say I am pretty gobsmacked at the amount of projection & reading the invisible, between the lines in the OPs posts

At no point does she mention meeting her friend secretly

Several times she states that she is tired etc & hasn't worded herself well, though I suspect from the responses, it would actually matter if she did a bullet point presentation clarifying every point several times over, I suspect a lot of posters would still project their own feelings & insecurities onto whatever she wrote - seems from the replies here, the attitude of her friends wife is the rule, rather than the exception, which to my mind is incredibly sad :(

I think people maybe need to try taking gender out of the equation & then they might see the situation for what is actually written. One long term close friend has unfairly attacked & accused the OP of something she wasn't intending to do out of feelings of insecurity - the OP is feeling shocked & upset by the accusations unexpectedly hurled at her, at worst she has been naive for not realising that a baby means the dynamics have changed & perhaps both of her friends are struggling with early parenthood, leaving the wife feeling very insecure.

Nothing she writes about her own DH suggests that he is equally fed up & feeling second best to her friend, he just sounds as shocked as she does by the drama of the wife's outburst & probably doing as my own DH would do, sleeping on it, to discuss it with a clearer head in the morning. Sounds pretty sensible & the sign if a good, solid, un needy relationship to me.

Op, my guess is you are still reading these posts. If you come back, we may be able to help you. I think you are in love with this man, or it may be limerence (I think a part of you will have loved writing your post as it gave you a chance to talk about him). If this has gone on for so long, then you will not want to hear what we are all saying, and I don't think everyone shouting at you will help this. But please listen, if this carries on it will be you who is hurt, I don't mean this in an unkind way, but I doubt you give a flying fig about his wife feelings, so I am focusing on how this will affect you. It will not end well. I know you will have your fingers in your ears but you need to stop seeing him. We could probably hold your hand (and let you talk about him endlessly!) while you do this. I think you would feel better about yourself.

Rockin I am am old friends with a married Gay woman.

I've know her longer than her wife about 15 years

I see her, call her, text her separately from her wife.

I would never go out for an evening with them both and exclude her wife (although we share an interest her wife doesn't share).

If her wife ever, ever got upset about our totally platonic relationship, I'd step back so fast there would be skid marks.

And if I spoke about my relationship with her in the manner that the OP has then her wife would in no
way be unreasonable in being unhappy with it.

I for one wouldn't blame the OP for not coming back to the thread, there is clearly nothing she can add that will have some posters see the truth of her situation as written. Seems she has become a bit of a punch bag for every infidelity or relationship insecurity suffered by some others here & would be on a hiding to nowhere trying to put that perception right.

Flogging a dead horse - why bother, I know I wouldn't :)

One long term close friend has unfairly attacked & accused the OP of something she wasn't intending to do out of feelings of insecurity Entirely your opinion Rockinhippy. I see it completely differently.

Nothing to do with projection. The wife has had a baby and had fifteen years of her husband's intimacy and cosy friendship with the possessive obsessive female friend. And yes OP is obsessive as she barely mentions her own husband and dismisses and invalidates the wife's feelings.

The OP's anger is based on the fear that the wife's irritation about this will mess up her ego boosting, inappropriate "I'll let you borrow him" friendship with a man who matters to the OP far more than her husband.

Her reaction to the wife getting pissed off? Go after her husband and reassure him? No. Reassure the wife? No. Earnestly text the male friend in the early hours of the morning to check they can still be friends and talk about his wife via text message? Yes, that's the one.

Inappropriate doesn't begin to cover it.

rockin sorry I wasn't very clear in my post, I wasn't implying the OP had been secretly meeting up, I was thinking more generally as is seems to be a common factor.

It's not so much gender but as Sunshine illustrated whether there is potential that a friendship could cross the line.

I had close male friends but we never ever discussed even jokingly "what if" any more than we would have done with our same-sex friends. It just wasn't on the radar. That's true platonic friendship IMO.

The OP and friend have openly acknowledged "what if" and agreed they would probably have given things a go had they not already been attached. This is where they crossed the line and they should have cooled things off.

Hmmmm. How come you texted him and not her? She was clearly upset about the friendship, about feeling excluded etc. So she would have woken up today to find that reinforced by you ingoring her and texting him instead.

That to me is the part that really sticks out and shows where your priorities have been, you don't seem at all concernend about her feelings.

If you had perhaps texted her and asked if she was ok, if at some point she would like a chat and if there was anything you could do to put her mind at ease, I'd feel differently.

But yea I feel pretty sorry for her after the situaiton last night when she wakes up today and sees she's been sidelined again but you have been checking in on her husband.

I hear what you are saying Sun'but I don't see the OP saying any different really - several times she has said she will gladly back off, but admits honestly that she is upset by that, which is fair enough.

She also doesn't say that the wife was excluded, just that her & the friend were discussing an interest that they both share - something they have done many times in the past without problem, whilst her own DH & wife chatted about something else & then the wife suddenly exploded & verbally attacked her

My own DH has a hobby that he is obsessive passionate over, he also,has long time close female fiends who work in that industry - I don't have much interest in it, I'm actually really pleased for him when he has friends there who can chat for hours on this topic & feed this passion, he lights up & I know he's really enjoying himself & he's not trying to chew my ear off on the subject - so double win - I'm not insecure enough to feel threatened by it at all & will happily occupy myself elsewhere & we will talk later - I have male friends where he will be exactly the same & give me the same respect & trust

I understand the wife is clearly feeling insecure, but I suspect the real problem is cracks in the marriage for other reasons, be the friend being a bell end of an unhelpful father, or worse making her feel insecure & unloved if she has put on weight hasn't regained her figure, or maybe it's only her that's feeling, frumpy, mummy & unloveable & he has done nothing wrong - a whole heap of reasons sadly not uncommon to new parents - not of which are the OPs fault - the dynamics have changed & she's guilty of naivety, that's all

Lots of cross posts there, I can't keep up

I think the OP has been unfairly treat here & I will leave it at that

I think I'm most disturbed by the OP's certainty that she knows exactly what's going on in her friend's marriage. Even if he is discussing his marriage with her, surely the OP must realize she's only hearing his side of things, and only what he chooses to tell her.

It seems so arrogant of the OP to confidently proclaim that the wife's outburst couldn't have been sparked by any difficulties they might have had since the baby arrived, or anything the friend has said to his wife or how he treats her. The OP may be confident that her friend is a great guy who is totally in the right based on her relationship with him, but she doesn't live with him, sleep with him or have a baby with him.

The OP may be confident that her friend is a great guy who is totally in the right based on her relationship with him, but she doesn't live with him, sleep with him or have a baby with him

I totally agree with that, I think everyone did, but I think it's naivety rather than arrogance

Bye :)

Rockin I think it's lovely of you to try to defend the OP. It's always good to have balance.

I don't agree with you but that's fine. As always on MN we only have one point of view to go on.

I don't think the OP will return, and that's fine too.

I hope the thread helped her and let her see things from a different perspective.

I (optimistically) hope she finds a way to back off and mend fences with the wife while maintaining a more appropriate relationship with the husband.

Rockin my best friend is male, he's been my best friend for 17 years. He used to message me daily, including good mornings and good nights when he knew I needed it. He has shared many things with me. He used to sit in town texting me, moaning when his wife was dragging him around clothes shops for the millionth time only to have to go back the following week to take everything back

His wife, who has been around for less time, hates me with a passion. Always has. I've never been too keen on her either as she's rather irritating, rude and treats him like a total sap. However, when I've been with them together I've included her and tried to get on with her, made her laugh by embarrassing the pants off him with old stories. Because of her dislike for me, we don't talk as much as we used to. He doesn't do the good morning and good night messages and I won't reply to him when he's moaning about the clothes shopping while she's in the changing rooms. When we see each other with her he does change slightly and we don't talk just to each other. This naturally happened for a reason -he's married and his wife always thought I was going to steal him! Although, he's more like a brother to me and I couldn't even begin to imagine anything else, eew!

His wife has grown a bit of acceptance and doesn't mind us having chats online while he's at work or at night anymore and is perfectly fine with him greeting me/saying goodbye with a hug and a kiss on the cheek. She's even letting us meet up alone for a catch up soon!

As much as I dislike the woman I don't want to appear to step on her toes or be disrespectful. And she's now ok with things.

Why did you text him? Why didn't you text her to see how she was?????The poor woman has her first night off since becoming a mum and her twat of a husband ignores her to talk to you. I'm not surprised she was upset.

Whether it's arrogance or naivety doesn't really matter; the OP needs to wake up and realize that she doesn't know every aspect of her friend's character and marriage.

Op said they had discussed having a sexual relationship but decided not to. That's more than a friendship. I don't want to have sex with any of my friends! Platonic friends don't want to have sex with each other, op and her 'friend' do!

Rockin, I don't think the OP is blameless at all. Those who disagree with you are not projecting their own insecurities at all and it's pretty insulting to say such a thing. You are, of course entitled to your opinion, but don't label those who disagree as insecure themselves, as it's insulting.

She simply doesn't want her husband to be as close to another woman as he seems to be to you. I don't think this is unreasonable. You do sound to be rather flattered re the attention from this man. And perhaps he is too. Time to keep your distance IMHO. His wife and child and their happiness should be his main priority. If it isn't then that's trouble.

Shes upset, shes just had a baby, shes said what shes been bottling up all this time, and you need to back right off. You do sound quite condescending of her, and your husband, and you sound like youre more into your friend than anyone else